The Bill To Ban Our Hobby Is Here!

[Hedorah99]

I actually found a yellow, and am hot on the trail, or tail,of a big green.

And yet we wonder why plans to somehow stop adding to this problem are being put in place

 

[pitbulllady]

well i dont think the animals that are the problem

if someone wants an alligator
by all means get one
but make sure you can care for it
there should be a system to make sure that people are able to keep pets
even if it means that gov. people would come into our houses and inspect
they dont have to be strict but keeping an alligator in a kiddie pool is ridiculous
however keeping him in a proper enclosure is not
keeping a ball python in a cardboard box is not ok
keeping it in a proper tank is fine by me

and then more common animals
why should people be allowed to get dogs if they leave them outside all year

i can understand some situations but in extreme heat or cold you need to properly care for them

so basically its not the pets doing wrong
its the keepers who just want the pets and dont know enough to care for them
tests or something
even a pet license
if you should have to have a license to drive you should have one to care for another beings life

like kids if someone cant care for kids
gov steps in and takes them to a care center
same principle

I am not ashamed that I keep my dogs-all 11 of them, with an average weight of 80 lbs., outside year-round. Mine are working/hunting dogs, not foo-foo house pets; yes, some folks still keep dogs to work cattle, hunt big, dangerous wild game, and protect property. I tried keeping a 95-lb. Catahoula Leopard Dog inside the house once, and he literally destroyed the place. He demolished the kennel crate he was in, ripped apart every piece of furniture, smashed two storm windows, threw a computer across the room, and finally ripped up the bottom of a metal door like it was tin foil, and was gone. The insurance adjuster who came out to view the damage, after I filed a claim, told me that the only time he'd seen an animal so utterly destroy the inside of a home was when a wild black bear got inside a vacation rental home in Georgetown County, SC. He doubted that a mere dog could do that much damage-until I showed him my other Catahoulas. That convinced him. So much for that notion that all dogs want to be indoors or need to be indoors. I kept my first Akita indoors for most of her life, but could not continue to torment her in the winter, when I was most comfortable with the heat on, but she was sweltering. Ask pretty much any hunter, or cattleman, or farmer, who uses dogs, and you won't find many who keep their dogs inside. It's not practical, nor is it fair to a high-energy, large working breed of dog, unless you can be home 24/7 to keep them occupied. This is one of the standard "weapons" used by the Animal Rights crowd to end the practice of keeping dogs,period-the claim that dogs MUST live indoors with people, and sleep on the couch/bed and watch tv, etc., and if you can't keep every dog inside, you shouldn't be allowed to have a dog, period. They're passing anti-tethering, anti-penning laws, but you can't let a dog run loose, either. This is really aimed at strong working or hunting breeds that simply do NOT do well inside and will not be happy inside, as that large Catahoula proved in no uncertain terms, since the Anti's know that hunters and people with real working dogs usually have more than one dog, and that these are generally too big or too high-energy to be left indoors, and of course, hunting dogs are the ones they most want to eliminate, along with "pit bulls".

pitbulllady

 

[clam1991]

thats fine if you keep them outside but they have food and arent starving or freezing out there cuz you know how to care for them properly.

and im saying the license idea b-cuz if you can pass a test that says you know what your doing then you can have a pet
but if you cant pass a test to just know how to care for it why would you allow a person to care of it?

and people dont go broke getting their drivers license



GOSH!

 

[sassysmama]

I don't agree with this bill at all, but I do agree with rules on venomous snakes. No, 1000 hours is not crazy for you to be able to have a cobra. Sorry, but it's not. And no, I do not believe you should "self teach" how to handle one. You can DIE. Period. Self teach with a tarantula, or something not DEADLY. And yes, you can get antivenom, but they are not native so anti-venom is not going to be readily available, and it is going to cost thousands of dollars. And if Joe Schmoe buys a cobra, tries to teach himself how to handle it, makes one incorrect move, gets bitten, and then goes to the ER, who foots the bill? Does Joe have thousands of dollars on hand to pay for it? Nope.
That is why the gov't doesn't want inexperienced people to handle venomous snakes. It's simply a case of a few bad apples ruining it for everyone. And yes, that is unfortunate, but it is better than putting people at risk by allowing anyone to keep exotics.
We should be more angry with the people who have released their exotic animals and hurt our hobby's reputation. Pitbullady, you should be equally as angry with the people who abuse their pitbulls and raise dogs that will attack people. When I hear about a county that bans pitbulls, I am angry with all the people in that county that were stupid and ruined it for the people with great dogs. I work at a vet clinic, and when I see a pitbull that is aggressive, I get angry with the owner of that dog, and the breeder of that dog, that allow it to tarnish the name of pitbulls everywhere.
It is so unfortunate that we live in a society that makes rules like this, but the reason for it is because some people can't use common sense or good judgement. If everyone could behave appropriately, we wouldn't need to have any laws. But some people will steal, drive 130 mph, and yes, release cobras, and unless there are laws to punish them, they will do it forever. This is my motto on the days at work that are one headache after another : People Suck. Simply, I wish everyone could be a good pet owner. But they aren't, so live with it, recognize that it sucks, and try to make it better.-Ally

 

[clam1991]

exactly you cant expect everyone who gets a dangerous pet to know how to care for it
some people will assume and get hurt or get others hurt

you cant just know how to handle these things it takes training or something bad will happen

 

[ThomasH]

thats fine if you keep them outside but they have food and arent starving or freezing out there cuz you know how to care for them properly.

and im saying the license idea b-cuz if you can pass a test that says you know what your doing then you can have a pet
but if you cant pass a test to just know how to care for it why would you allow a person to care of it?

and people dont go broke getting their drivers license



GOSH!

What we should do is have stronging animal cruelty inforcement agents or police to take animals out of bad conditions. Not make all these stupid tests and licenses.
TBH

 

[ThomasH]

I don't agree with this bill at all, but I do agree with rules on venomous snakes. No, 1000 hours is not crazy for you to be able to have a cobra. Sorry, but it's not. And no, I do not believe you should "self teach" how to handle one. You can DIE. Period. Self teach with a tarantula, or something not DEADLY. And yes, you can get antivenom, but they are not native so anti-venom is not going to be readily available, and it is going to cost thousands of dollars. And if Joe Schmoe buys a cobra, tries to teach himself how to handle it, makes one incorrect move, gets bitten, and then goes to the ER, who foots the bill? Does Joe have thousands of dollars on hand to pay for it? Nope.
That is why the gov't doesn't want inexperienced people to handle venomous snakes. It's simply a case of a few bad apples ruining it for everyone. And yes, that is unfortunate, but it is better than putting people at risk by allowing anyone to keep exotics.
We should be more angry with the people who have released their exotic animals and hurt our hobby's reputation. Pitbullady, you should be equally as angry with the people who abuse their pitbulls and raise dogs that will attack people. When I hear about a county that bans pitbulls, I am angry with all the people in that county that were stupid and ruined it for the people with great dogs. I work at a vet clinic, and when I see a pitbull that is aggressive, I get angry with the owner of that dog, and the breeder of that dog, that allow it to tarnish the name of pitbulls everywhere.
It is so unfortunate that we live in a society that makes rules like this, but the reason for it is because some people can't use common sense or good judgement. If everyone could behave appropriately, we wouldn't need to have any laws. But some people will steal, drive 130 mph, and yes, release cobras, and unless there are laws to punish them, they will do it forever. This is my motto on the days at work that are one headache after another : People Suck. Simply, I wish everyone could be a good pet owner. But they aren't, so live with it, recognize that it sucks, and try to make it better.-Ally

You're inexperienced ideas are useless. You have no venomous experience so don't talk. I have hook handled copperheads outside and I sure as heck didn't need a thousand hours of experience to do so. Cobras are not cheap or easily obtainable in non-PA states very few Joe shmoes obtain them. 911 is public record. When was the last time you heard of an exotic snake bite recording and you know it would have ended up on the news if it exsisted. Statistically speaking cars are a thousand times deadlier than snakes. Did you work a million hours to get your license?
TBH

 

[ThomasH]

And yet we wonder why plans to somehow stop adding to this problem are being put in place

Huh? All these animals you are speaking of were found in Florida. Florida now regulates and radiochips them. So I don't understand where you're getting that comment from. Why does it need to be a national law any way? Last I checked Boids and Crocidilians can't make it in VA or the 99% of the U.S. The point is Florida, where the problems occured now regulates them. Why make it a nationwide law just now after the issue's being resolved?

 

[sassysmama]

Whoa. I'm sorry, I thought this was a forum, a place for public debate. Telling me that my inexperienced ideas are useless is uncalled for. I was not aware that only people who agree with you were permitted to post in your thread.
By the way, please check the classifieds on any snake forum, you will see spitting cobras for less than $100, and monacled cobras for around $150. That is cheap.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Peace out,
-Ally

 

[NevularScorpion]

I love all animals and each one of them have a special way to charm people. i fully agree with pitbull lady your either against it or not. once this thing becomes a bill i will try to contact my representative and ask some scabies members for help about this issue. the main reason i'm against this bill is because we will lose the eligibility to breed endangered animals like pokies and other animals that are becoming extinct from urbanization. its not impossible to breed even if the bill is pass but it will be difficult for most people to breed exotic animals because it will need a lot of money to get all the permits for legalizations.

 

[Taceas]

You're inexperienced ideas are useless. You have no venomous experience so don't talk. I have hook handled copperheads outside and I sure as heck didn't need a thousand hours of experience to do so. Cobras are not cheap or easily obtainable in non-PA states very few Joe shmoes obtain them. 911 is public record. When was the last time you heard of an exotic snake bite recording and you know it would have ended up on the news if it exsisted. Statistically speaking cars are a thousand times deadlier than snakes. Did you work a million hours to get your license?
TBH

Totally uncalled for response. You can't just have people who agree with your point of view participate in your thread, otherwise you might be talking to yourself in the end. Everyone's opinion on this matter is valuable, whether or not you agree with it.

To go off on a related tangent: They're wanting to force the NAIS onto me for keeping backyard chickens. They want to register my property, having its coordinates on GPS, subject to stiff fines and culling of my animals if I don't follow the rules, making me microchip every single bird on my property, notifying them within 24 hours when a chicken so much as farts on my neighbor's property. You know, never mind the fact the chickens don't leave my property...they're born here and they die here. Some threat to food safety that I am.

But yet the very "farms" that house thousands of your food animals in horrid conditions with sick animals are exempt from these stringent laws aimed to protect the public's food. They only need a small sampling from each "herd" to register and keep tabs on.

I don't think 1000 hours is necessarily too much to ask to keep, breed, and sell venomous reptiles. Not only is it for the keeper's safety but the public that lives around him as well. Copperheads aren't remotely deadly, unless you're already near death, extremely young or old...is that supposed to be a badge of honor or a "Here's your sign"?

As for dogs, I don't mind pitbulls...I don't like them and I don't trust them, but I don't mind them. I just wish that every Tom, Dick, and Harry didn't need one to make his dick look bigger to his friends.

Around here they're the most surrendered and euthanized "breed". They come to the shelters in poor physical health, starved or having been fought, they come in unsocialized and are thus unadoptable. They take up valuable time, space, and resources that already struggling shelters can't provide to pets that are more salvageable as it were. And as thus I don't think that every person should own one. Again, it comes down to animal welfare and public safety. You wouldn't dream of owning fish without an aquarium and water...so why would you get a large, potentially aggressive dog without a decent fence?

I don't really care what the statistics show, around here they're the dog that does bite. Whether its the breed, or lack of breed (most seem to be mutts), the lack of socialization, the lack of proper care, or all of the above...I don't trust one any further than I could throw it. I also don't trust most smaller dogs as they're also unpredictable, moody, and apt to bite. But most Cocker Spaniels can't rip you to shreds in the blink of an eye, either.

Spay/neuter laws don't really bother me surprisingly. I am not a breeder, my dog and cats are fixed by choice, and I see an abundance of feral animals decimating the natural landscape and overcrowding the local shelters due to people too damned lazy or cheap to get their pets fixed. If you want to breed your champion mutts and sell the pups for insane amounts of money, then you should be able to afford a breeder's license, eh? However I don't think such a policy will work given the nature of the American sheeple.

 

[pitbulllady]

Totally uncalled for response. You can't just have people who agree with your point of view participate in your thread, otherwise you might be talking to yourself in the end. Everyone's opinion on this matter is valuable, whether or not you agree with it.

To go off on a related tangent: They're wanting to force the NAIS onto me for keeping backyard chickens. They want to register my property, having its coordinates on GPS, subject to stiff fines and culling of my animals if I don't follow the rules, making me microchip every single bird on my property, notifying them within 24 hours when a chicken so much as farts on my neighbor's property. You know, never mind the fact the chickens don't leave my property...they're born here and they die here. Some threat to food safety that I am.

But yet the very "farms" that house thousands of your food animals in horrid conditions with sick animals are exempt from these stringent laws aimed to protect the public's food. They only need a small sampling from each "herd" to register and keep tabs on.

I don't think 1000 hours is necessarily too much to ask to keep, breed, and sell venomous reptiles. Not only is it for the keeper's safety but the public that lives around him as well. Copperheads aren't remotely deadly, unless you're already near death, extremely young or old...is that supposed to be a badge of honor or a "Here's your sign"?

As for dogs, I don't mind pitbulls...I don't like them and I don't trust them, but I don't mind them. I just wish that every Tom, Dick, and Harry didn't need one to make his dick look bigger to his friends.

Around here they're the most surrendered and euthanized "breed". They come to the shelters in poor physical health, starved or having been fought, they come in unsocialized and are thus unadoptable. They take up valuable time, space, and resources that already struggling shelters can't provide to pets that are more salvageable as it were. And as thus I don't think that every person should own one. Again, it comes down to animal welfare and public safety. You wouldn't dream of owning fish without an aquarium and water...so why would you get a large, potentially aggressive dog without a decent fence?

I don't really care what the statistics show, around here they're the dog that does bite. Whether its the breed, or lack of breed (most seem to be mutts), the lack of socialization, the lack of proper care, or all of the above...I don't trust one any further than I could throw it. I also don't trust most smaller dogs as they're also unpredictable, moody, and apt to bite. But most Cocker Spaniels can't rip you to shreds in the blink of an eye, either.

Spay/neuter laws don't really bother me surprisingly. I am not a breeder, my dog and cats are fixed by choice, and I see an abundance of feral animals decimating the natural landscape and overcrowding the local shelters due to people too damned lazy or cheap to get their pets fixed. If you want to breed your champion mutts and sell the pups for insane amounts of money, then you should be able to afford a breeder's license, eh? However I don't think such a policy will work given the nature of the American sheeple.

"Statistics" are a HIGHLY unreliable source of information when it comes to "pit bulls"-notice the use of quotation marks here, since the term "pit bull"(often misspelled "pitt bull") is a very broad, wide term that basically includes every short-coated, muscular dog-or just any dog that acts aggressive, regardless of its appearance. I've even coined a phrase for it-"Rattlesnake Syndrome". Just as people who are terrified of snakes tend to "identify" every snake they see as a "rattlesnake", and interpret every snake behavior they observe as a threat, attack, charge, strike, or other form of aggression, people have now had it drilled into their heads that there are these killer monster dogs out there, who exist for no other reason that to eat people and little Fluffy. Thus, many people are developing that same deep-rooted cultural fear of dogs that they have had of snakes since that whole misinterpretation of the Book of Genesis. Every dog that they see running loose, every dog that barks at them, and certainly every dog that bites, will be reported as a "pit bull", just like many people will insist every snake they see, even if it's bright green, is a "rattlesnake". It doesn't occur to them that there can even BE any other kind! Don't assume that animal control officers or law enforcement can do any better at identifying breeds; heck, *I* myself, a veteran breeder/owner of purebred APBT's, have been fooled by mutts with NO APBT genes at all, and I know that there are many combos of breeds that can look a lot like an APBT. Of course, when any of these countless mutts bites someone, or is simply PERCEIVED as threatening(and people tend to be horrifically stupid when it comes to knowledge of dog behavior, made all the worse by fear), it is officially reported as a "pit bull attack", and thus goes into the "statistics". Even the CDC, who initially came out with a report blaming "pit bulls"(again, a non-existent breed, since it's used to describe so many different dogs) for the most human attacks, later retracted that statement and admitted that statistics based on breed were highly unreliable due to the difficulty of properly identifying the breed involved, especially where bias against particular dogs is rampant-Rattlesnake Syndrome at work.

pitbulllady

 

[crpy]

the nature of the American sheeple.

And the herd is huge, well atleast some species

 

[ErgoProxy]

"Statistics" are a HIGHLY unreliable source of information...

Sorry for cutting that so "short" PBL, but you can take that "argument" to an even more basic level in that Statistics are unreliable due to the nature of statistics. Two different people can take the same dataset, and depending on which set of statistical tests/formulas they CHOOSE to apply, can come up with radically different interpretations of the data. That is the "power" and the WEAKNESS of statistics...they can be quite biased, which goes to show how "subjective" they can be (as in most instances, the data can be "massaged" to show exactly what you want it to, and it is only the skill of the statistician in employing the "correct" test for the question at hand that will lead to a more "realistic" interpretation and avoid something like this).

But look at the level we are talking about. Organizations that WANT to have that bias in the interpretation of the results so that they can have their agendas met, and John/Jane Q. Public, in most cases, really isn't aware or educated enough to know the difference...

Want to talk "misidentification"...some time ago, with my last dog, Animal Control showed up one day saying there was a "complaint" that we were keeping a DEER in our yard (in the "city limits")....then the agents saw the dog (a Kelb tal-Fenek) and well, shut up really fast and left.

And for "interpretation" or using data to say what you want it to, I was interviewed while working at a local Natural History museum in the past regarding "Brown Recluse" spiders, since someone went into an ER with a mysterious wound and the ever so "know it all" doctor right off said "brown recluse bite" even though the area I am in, is not in their native range. Possible, yeah, with an accidental introduction, BUT the "victim" didn't even notice a spider bite at all and traced it back to working in a "wood pile". No evidence of a spider bite, let alone a brown recluse. Well I was really contradicting the doctor's "opinion" and when the interview aired on the Evening News...the lead in to the story was "Dangers Spiders showing up in XXXX", and then they used what I said during the interview completely out of context to make it seem that a spider "expert" was agreeing with this doctor. That was one of the moments in life when I was most livid, but bit my tongue in lieu of negative press for the institution...but told the marketing department I would NEVER EVER speak to that local news station again, which was KNOWN for sensationalism in their reporting of the "news".

How did that apply? Well, news stories ALWAYS blow things out of proportion to the point that they have the public BELIEVING what they want them to. Have Pit Bulls attacked people in the past. Yes. Does that mean that every Pit Bull is a vicious killer? NO. But people are going to believe what others tell them because they have it INGRAINED into them that somehow the NEWS is reporting things in the best interest of the public, instead of "tweaking" things to drive up ratings and get better sponsors.

All that said, I do still support some type of "permits" for dangerously "hot" reptiles and inverts.....but ones based on sound REASON and not set by the government appeasing the lobby groups that BUY the congressmen and president.

 

[clam1991]

and you can say cars are more dangerous than a cobra but have you noticed how many cars are in America compared to cobras

if you want a venomous snake that bad do the hours and quit complaining;P

 

[crpy]

Well Ill tell you who is gonna get our hobby/business banned, the pet shops that are continuing to sell mislabeled inverts. I read this all the time and someone will get tagged bad and that might be it.


Pet shop management incompetence=aaaaaaahhhhh!!

 

[ErgoProxy]

Well Ill tell you who is gonna get our hobby/business banned, the pet shops that are continuing to sell mislabeled inverts. I read this all the time and someone will get tagged bad and that might be it.


Pet shop management incompetence=aaaaaaahhhhh!!

NO LIE, and despite everyone's BEST EFFORTS to get them to change (even some of the "independently owned" local chains....

I knew of one guy/gal who worked in the "herp room" (where they kept the inverts as well) who knew something of what they were talking about (but then they always talked to me when I was in there ) and would tell people what they were actually purchasing. I recall hearing a story of that place selling some unsuspecting client a Haplopelma minax, not even knowing (different workers) the potential speed/defensiveness of that Genus/Species (esp. being WC) and the person returned it because it went from PET ROCK to running around and tagging them, when they were poking at it.

Granted a Hap, won't kill you, but it adds some ammo to the point....

 

[ThomasH]

and you can say cars are more dangerous than a cobra but have you noticed how many cars are in America compared to cobras

That comment makes no sense at all. My statistics were worldly including snakes confronted outside. Many countries have far more native hots than vehicles. Just to put it in prospective my boss has owned hots since he was twelve. He was sent to the hospital once from a snake bite, five times from dog attacks and three times from car accidents. He's spent far more time with hots than vehicles too. The average U.S. hot owner gets bit every 15-20 years, the average U.S.person gets in a car accident every six. You do the math. Please stop commenting on my thread. You are just too uneducated on this topic, I feel like I'm arguing with a five year old.

 

[ThomasH]

Well Ill tell you who is gonna get our hobby/business banned, the pet shops that are continuing to sell mislabeled inverts. I read this all the time and someone will get tagged bad and that might be it.


Pet shop management incompetence=aaaaaaahhhhh!!

I strongly agree. My local pet shop got in trouble and shut down for roaches and an all over disgusting shop. They didn't seem to know that the word tarantula wasn't a species. They always had a 5.5 gallon labeled tarantula. It was usually G. rosea, A. seemani or H. lividum. They kept them on a 1/4 inch of dry, grainy bark with a tiny bowl and sponge.
TBH

 

[ThomasH]

Totally uncalled for response.
I don't think 1000 hours is necessarily too much to ask to keep, breed, and sell venomous reptiles. Not only is it for the keeper's safety but the public that lives around him as well. Copperheads aren't remotely deadly, unless you're already near death, extremely young or old...is that supposed to be a badge of honor or a "Here's your sign"?

Than what does that make your response?
I'm not an egotist. I just like hots. I'm not bragging I'm just trying to educate and give my own opinion. Thank you for illustrating my point. They aren't deadly, so why work an obscene number of hours for them?
TBH