Systematic revision of Brachypelma red-kneed tarantulas

[JoeRossi]

Hi the paper was officially published.

http://www.publish.csiro.au/IS/IS16023

Great now maybe we can finally get our spiders LOL

 

[viper69]

Too bad the paper is not published via Zookeys. The article is behind a firewall and cannot be obtained.

 

[darkness975]

 

[AracKnight]

The Paper can be downloaded from the WSC.

The reason for namechanges is not to provide help for identification, it's just because it's scientifically correct

 

[EulersK]

It's about time.

For those that want it (for free, legally):
http://wsc.nmbe.ch/reference/13868

You have to have an account, but that's free as well. Just signed up and downloaded it, took me all of five minutes.

 

[volcanopele]

Is this a good tl;dr?

1) B. smithi had been used to describe two different populations of Ts on the Mexican west coast in the states of Guerrero and Colima.
2) B. smithi was originally described using a specimen from the Guerrero population
3) B. hamorii was described a century later from a specimen in the pet trade. This paper "revives" the name and uses it for the Colima population of B. smithi, which using DNA sequencing appears to be more distinct from Guerrero B. smithi than auratum, baumgarteni, and boehmei (which also are more geographically closer to Guerrero B. smithi)
4) "B. smithi" in the pet trade largely comes from Colima so is actually B. hamorii now.
5) B. annitha isn't distinct from B. smithi
6) Jebus, the shear numbers of WC specimens that got exported from Mexico decades ago. thank goodness for captive breeding, amirite?

 

[Pmuticus704]

Anyone know where you can get a free PDF of this paper.. I am not shelling out 40 bucks for it. Never mind post above explained where to get it.

 

[Jorge M]

Well for genus switches it actually DOES help with taxonomy. This is just a species name change, what benefit could this possibly have I don't get it...

One of the benefits of this change on first place is stability, one of the main objectives of Nomenclatural Code is the stability in the names. Since description of Brachypelma annitha and Brachypelma hamorii a great confusion with B. smithi begins. After publication no one can tell who exactlly was B. hamorii and where comes from, having only another species floating in classification without clearity. So now one of those names dissapear (B. annitha). We resolve all missidentifications of other authors with respect those species and assign the correct name where corresponds.

The most important thing comes with the conservations politics within Brachypelma smithi and B. hamorii, because now are more critical as we know the exactlly distribution of each species and how to delimit. Before the study B. smithi distribution was considered bigger than actually is. So the species are more restricted and needs better protection strategies. Even when smuggled species being realeased in habitat by Mexican authorities we need to be careful in doing this in the right area.

Also I didn´t stand why you say that they cannot being identifiy, when they can. Sexual structures are taxonomically different so you can identify accuretly based on this. Also in Mexico it is starting a program for identification of priority species based on DNA. So with that tool will be easier for authorities to identify Brachypelma at species level without the need of an expert taxonomist.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

With this paper I can now say for certain that the female Brachypelma smithi I have in my collection is in fact Brachypelma hamorii.

Using a molt from my B. hamorii, I can use the following characters described in the paper to make the ID.

- Ventral side of spermatheca smooth/ without striations (striations present in B. smithi)
- Spermathecal baseplates elliptical (subtriangular in B. smithi)
- Cheliceral bands present (not present in B. smithi)

I attached a couple of pictures for illustration.

Thanks to @Jorge M for getting this all sorted out!

 

[Jorge M]

The identification of traded animals using mitochondrial barcode is limited to the maternal line. If we have a red leg, barcoding can only tell the species of mother. If we have hybrids, we will never know.

That is correct, but there is no proof of any natural hybrid of Brachypelma, we take sample through whole distribution area of each species, and samples using in the program are from northern, center and southern distribution of each species. This is only a small part of all my work.

In addition I also have sequences of nuclear genes.

Cheers

 

[Magenta]

I have a 4ish in male bought as B. smithi several years ago, and a B. smithi sling a few weeks ago from a trusted dealer. I am so confused, is my male B.smithi still B. smithi or B. hamorii?

 

[Andrea82]

I have a 4ish in male bought as B. smithi several years ago, and a B. smithi sling a few weeks ago from a trusted dealer. I am so confused, is my male B.smithi still B. smithi or B. hamorii?

Your male is B.hamorii. If the seller hasn't made the name switch yet, your sling is also B.hamorii. If he did make the switch, you have a sling of what used to be B.annitha, but is now B.smithi

 

[Magenta]

Your male is B.hamorii. If the seller hasn't made the name switch yet, your sling is also B.hamorii. If he did make the switch, you have a sling of what used to be B.annitha, but is now B.smithi

@Andrea82 Okay, I will relabel my male B. hamorii and I will ask the dealer I got my little B. smithi from for clarification. Thank you Thank you.

 

[Tanner Dzula]

wow, definitely a Great Read! always love to read the results of some major re-nameing and re-classification of such well known species!

 

[Magenta]

What are the chances of accidental hybridization happening between B. smithi and B. hamorii?

 

[Andrea82]

What are the chances of accidental hybridization happening between B. smithi and B. hamorii?

I think the difference between those two should prevent accidental hybridization. At least, I hope so...
But I must admit I wondered about this myself...

 

[darkness975]

@AphonopelmaTX I was wondering if this thread could be made into a sticky? I tend to reference it a lot and believe it may be beneficial to have it easily accessible. At least until a larger percentage of people are switched to the new scientific names for the species.

What say you?

 

[Andrea82]

@AphonopelmaTX I was wondering if this thread could be made into a sticky? I tend to reference it a lot and believe it may be beneficial to have it easily accessible. At least until a larger percentage of people are switched to the new scientific names for the species.

What say you?

Agreed. Same goes for the Avicularia revision, i think.

 

[EulersK]

Yay, more stickies. Right next to the two speculative stickies about DKS and one about scientific articles from half a decade ago

Stickies are helpful, but having over a dozen stickies is akin to highlighting and entire page of a textbook.

 

[Andrea82]

Yay, more stickies. Right next to the two speculative stickies about DKS and one about scientific articles from half a decade ago

Stickies are helpful, but having over a dozen stickies is akin to highlighting and entire page of a textbook.

In that case, the question of making this a sticky is accompanied by a request to clean up the stickies