Some questions to the board..

[MaartenSFS]

1) So my female unknown mygalomorph that laid the eggsac mysteriously died after the eggs hatched and I separated them. It seemed like it was thin, weak, and having trouble spinning a tube. I fed it a large-esque pre-killed fly the day before and it was eating it. The enclosure was kept slightly moist, so no dessication.

Why did it die? Possibly olde age?

One of its legs had a strange white marking and it didn't seem to use it. Can those regenerate with the next moult?

2) There are about 30 spiderlings living in a communal web. I have fed them a pre-killed baby cockroach and their dead mother D), but I feel like they aren't eating. They are growing bigger, though..

Are they eating their own moults and, if not, what can I feed them?

3) My other one has just moulted again and it has grown a lot. It is now well over 1.5cm, robust, aggressive, and an all-around killing machine. The dead mother was around 1.2cm and thin before it died.

Can they still moult and grow after they reach sexual maturity? I thought that they didn't, but I'd like to be proven wrong. Why did the two differ so much in size?

I'm still uncertain if they are Diplurid or Macrothele or something else, but I'll keep everyone updated. I also found a bird shoppe that sells both small and king mealworms, so that takes care of my feeding problem. We are going on a big hunt tomorrow and I hope to bring back something new this time.

 

[lhystrix]

It sounds like the white spots on the leg were fungus, and the fly diet probably didn't help either.

Female mygalomorphs molt throughout their lives, males until sexual maturity. They will regenerate missing legs if not lost too close to an upcoming molt.

Spiders almost always consume the valuable fluids remaing in their cast skins after ecdysis. Tarantulas, for example, 'drink' the them like water, while I have observed my Liphistius, Ctenolophus, Damarchus, and Ancylotrypa 'eat' the skin, leaving a mangled ball behind. If your spiders are molting, you should see evidence of it; skin, and an obvious difference in appearance, especially between 1st and 2nd instars. If your spiderlings are still 1st instars, they are definitly not eating.

I still believe your spider is Macrothele. Do you still have the deceased specimen? If so, post close ups of the venter, dorsum, spinnerets. Images will
help narrow it down to genus. Even if you threw it out, put your live one in a glass and try to get those views. Post some images of the spiderlings, too.
Good close ups are usually a big help.

There are three families of trapdoors that supposedly inhabit Guangxi; Latouchia, Cyclocosmia, and Heptathela; but the information on them, especially distribution, is very scarce. Then there are Atypicus, Macrothele, and Dipluridae (Which is what I believe my spider to be, although that would mean a Diplurid in any area without any known species ).
Do Nemesiids create trap-doors? My spider doesn't. Taxonomy can be quite confusing. I'm still going with Diplurid, but I can't rule out everything else too quick.

Btw, you really need to get your taxomony 101 course going.
There are six mygalomorph families represented in China, plus the Liphistiids.

The three families you mention for Guangxi are genera, not families, and two of the genera you mention are in the same family. The only family you mentioned was Dipluridae, and the genera you mentioned represent four families, so there are five total.

Also, Atypus heterothecus is recorded from Guangxi. What is Atypicus?

Some Nemesiids build trapdoors, others don't.

 

[MaartenSFS]

It sounds like the white spots on the leg were fungus, and the fly diet probably didn't help either.

Female mygalomorphs molt throughout their lives, males until sexual maturity. They will regenerate missing legs if not lost too close to an upcoming molt.

Spiders almost always consume the valuable fluids remaing in their cast skins after ecdysis. Tarantulas, for example, 'drink' the them like water, while I have observed my Liphistius, Ctenolophus, Damarchus, and Ancylotrypa 'eat' the skin, leaving a mangled ball behind. If your spiders are molting, you should see evidence of it; skin, and an obvious difference in appearance, especially between 1st and 2nd instars. If your spiderlings are still 1st instars, they are definitly not eating.

I still believe your spider is Macrothele. Do you still have the deceased specimen? If so, post close ups of the venter, dorsum, spinnerets. Images will
help narrow it down to genus. Even if you threw it out, put your live one in a glass and try to get those views. Post some images of the spiderlings, too.
Good close ups are usually a big help.

Btw, you really need to get your taxomony 101 course going.
There are six mygalomorph families represented in China, plus the Liphistiids.

The three families you mention for Guangxi are genera, not families, and two of the genera you mention are in the same family. The only family you mentioned was Dipluridae, and the genera you mentioned represent four families, so there are five total.

Also, Atypus heterothecus is recorded from Guangxi. What is Atypicus?

Some Nemesiids build trapdoors, others don't.

The spider had the "fungus" when I found it with its eggsac.

The spiderlings just hatched last week and I haven't seen any skin left behind so perhaps they are still 1st instars, though they have darkened somewhat.

The photo's I have taken so far are all in there: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=124400

They aren't THAT clear, but I think that they look a lot like some Dipluridae photos I've seen. On the very first photo of the thread you can see the leg with the white spot.

About the taxonomy, you are correct. I have no access to books here, so I've gleaned all of my information from the internet. When I said families, I was speaking in general terms, but in taxonomy this is obviously counterproductive. And yes, Atypicus = Atypus (Atypical tarantulas, I read), a lazy mistake.

Liphistiids are not Mygalomorphs?

Anyways, thanks a lot for the help. I didn't end up finding any mygalomorphs today, but did find a lot of other things, amongst which, a centipede.

 

[lhystrix]

Hey, Maarten.
This is what 1st instars look like:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=126311
They will become quite dark prior to molt.

No, Liphistiids are not mygalomorphs. They are in suborder Mesothelae.
Mygalomorphae and Araneomorphae are in suborder Opisthothelae.

Thanks for the link. I missed your recent images. Here are a couple of your images that I edited so I can show you what makes your spiders Macrothelae IMO.

Yellow lines-marginal sigilla, six total
Red circle-endites longer than wide, labium as long as wide, or longer
Yellow box-cephalic region raised, eye tubercle distinct, eye group longer than wide, carapace glabrous
Blue circle-fovea an open, broad pit
Green box-tarsi 1 spined

Here are a few differences you would see if it were a Diplurid:
Eye group compact, twice as wide than long.
Fovea small or pit like.
Endites short.
Labium wider than long.
Cephalic region low, thoracic region elevated, carapace hirsute
Tarsi long, slender
Sigilla indistinct or absent?
All of these traits are absent in your images.

 

[MaartenSFS]

Wouw, thanks for your comprehensive analysis. I'm surprised that you could get so much information out of those bad ventral shots. :worship:

If what you say is true, aren't my spiders too small? I thought Macrothele were a large genus of spiders. Or are there some exceptions? I have seen three so far with the largest being over 1.5cm. Is it possible that they become sexually mature early and still grow considerably throughout their lives and I just haven't found any big ones?

If they don't get much bigger, do you think there is a market for them or should I try to find some bigger specimens? I personally think that they are very cool and easy to raise.

The spiderlings were like yours at first, but are now black and slightly larger. Does that mean that they are 2nd instars? I will take some pictures when I find the time.

I'm going to have to do some more research on Liphistiids, because I didn't know there was yet another suborder of spiders. :?

Again, thank you so much for helping to identify it. I'll probably have to wait until I begin exporting these to find out the actual species, as I am no professional taxonomist.

 

[lhystrix]

Although poor images, the traits I pointed out are still easily seen, especially when magnified on IE. You should be able to look at your spiders and see all the applicable characters no problem.

Your spiders are not too small. There is sometimes significant size variation between species in a genus. For example, species of the Diplurid Euagrus (a primarily new world genus with species in China and Africa as well) in NA range from BL 6.5 - 17mm as adults.
Macrothele adults may range from BL 14-28mm, and possibly larger and smaller.

From what you describe, your spiderlings sound like 2nd instars.

I'm sure many people on this forum, myself included, would be interested in keeping Macrothele, despite the small size, but it might not be worth the trouble trying to legally distribute them. I have no idea how much of a market there is in the US and other countries, though.

I am no professional either, but I have good books, revisions, papers, and use reputable websites. For taxonomy, start here:
http://research.amnh.org/entomology/spiders/catalog/INTRO3.html
Be aware that range locality is general or partial, and by no means specific. For example, just because Latrodectus bishopi is labeled 'USA' as location, it does not mean it occurs throughout the USA. It only occurs in four counties in the state of Florida. The WSC was not really designed for detailed locality info, anyway.

Also, do you receive mail at your location?
If so, I suggest ordering some good spider literature from NHBS.

 

[MaartenSFS]

I think that they are easy enough to raise that I will try unless I find another Macrothele species that is larger or cooler. As soon as I have enough specimens I may try to see if they can be kept communally, which would add to the market, I think.

When I'm sure that I can breed them and have begun producing captive born and bred specimens I will look into exporting them. Another option would be selling to Hongkong. I'm not at that stage yet, so we'll see. I'm having success in finding centipedes, but I haven't found many cool spiders, though there is enough evidence online to support that they are here. Perhaps I just haven't looked in the right places, yet. When I've got a larger pool of species I'll feel more ready. I still especially covet the trap-doors, but have seen zero so far. Do you think that looking under bamboo leaves would be a good area?

I have fed the spiderlings pre-killed food, but they haven't eaten, it seems. Do 2nd instars eat? I counted circa 28 spiderlings. If they are Macrothele I can expect to wait YEARS for them to mature, right?

That site is really helpful. I will carefully look through it. O, by the way, Liphistiids are very cool. I hope to find some. ;P Unfortunately it is not realistic for me to order books from here. I can receive post, but it is very expensive and takes forever and there is no guarantee that it will even arrive. Everything that I've sent out, however, has arrived.