Socotra Communal

[Irithyllian]

I have a bit of a question with one of my communal, I have one that contains 3 P Metallica, they have been doing really well together, I recently introduced one Socotra with one I had for a short time previously, when this worked with the Metallica I assumed that it would be similar for the socotra’s so I’ve tried it in the same fashion and was even close to getting a 3rd, however, with the two balfouri they are equal in size for the most part my first one only appears to be one molt ahead and the newest one is definitely in premolt.

The new one I introduced likes to walk on the ceiling of the enclosure, and usually just stays up there, they’ve been together now for over a week, and I’ve seen them next to each other but rarely, there is some webbing around many parts of the enclosure, is this behavior a red flag or is one just acting a certain way due to being in premolt?

I ask now since I don’t want any issues to happen I’d feel awful if they hurt each other.

 

[viper69]

There are no communal tarantulas- good luck!
Science has not found this at all.

Risking their lives for selfish purposes is just wrong.

Spiders will cannabilize even balfouri!
There’s a nice picture on another forum demonstrating this.

 

[coolnweird]

You're not going to find many communal fans on the boards. Communals are mildly interesting when they work, and devastating when they don't. Not worth the risk imo, my job as an animal owner is to remove unnecessary risk from their lives, not add it

 

[Smotzer]

Here we go again......

KEEP THEM SEPARATE AND KEEP THEM ALIVE

 

[EnigmaNyx]

I have a bit of a question with one of my communal, I have one that contains 3 P Metallica, they have been doing really well together, I recently introduced one Socotra with one I had for a short time previously, when this worked with the Metallica I assumed that it would be similar for the socotra’s so I’ve tried it in the same fashion and was even close to getting a 3rd, however, with the two balfouri they are equal in size for the most part my first one only appears to be one molt ahead and the newest one is definitely in premolt.

The new one I introduced likes to walk on the ceiling of the enclosure, and usually just stays up there, they’ve been together now for over a week, and I’ve seen them next to each other but rarely, there is some webbing around many parts of the enclosure, is this behavior a red flag or is one just acting a certain way due to being in premolt?

I ask now since I don’t want any issues to happen I’d feel awful if they hurt each other.

This is quite fascinating in my opinion. Lots of folks on here don't agree with communals, although it seems like you're doing it more for the research aspect than "for funsies." Personally, I don't think there's any other way to formulate a conclusion whether or not communals work with certain species unless you try it. That's the unpopular opinion, and I don't really care. Much like talking about handling T's on here, it will always receive a big "NO" from AB, but folks will do it anyways.

If you want to do communals, I'd recommend finding another place to ask questions. You'll never get anything but disdain from here, which isn't helpful to anyone, but it's the sad truth. If I start doing communals, no one on this site (minus a select few) would know. Find others that post about communals and DM them, you may find more open discussion rather than immediate shutdown.

As for the last line in your post, you have to realize that doing any communal poses the additional risk that they'll kill each other. You can't go into a communal thinking it'll never happen, that's just being dumb. As long as you understand the risk, then take out your notebook and record your findings.

 

[mack1855]

Are we keepers possibly confusing “communal with forced confinement “?.

 

[EnigmaNyx]

Are we keepers possibly confusing “communal with forced confinement “?.

I mean... isn't keeping T's "forced confinement" anyways?

 

[mack1855]

I mean... isn't keeping T's "forced confinement" anyways?

I should have said confinement together.as in more than one T.Thanks for the clarification.

 

[EnigmaNyx]

I should have said confinement together.as in more than one T.Thanks for the clarification.

Still, I think the hobby as a whole could be considered "forced confinement", whether it's 1 T alone or 10 T's together. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[EulersK]

doing any communal poses the additional risk that they'll kill each other. You can't go into a communal thinking it'll never happen, that's just being dumb.

This, right here, is why people disagree with communal setups. I just don't understand why people believe that it's acceptable to put animals in an environment where they know some individuals will die. It's irresponsible, cruel, and ignorant.

 

[EnigmaNyx]

This, right here, is why people disagree with communal setups. I just don't understand why people believe that it's acceptable to put animals in an environment where they know some individuals will die. It's irresponsible, cruel, and ignorant.

I mean, to each their own. You can hate it all you want, and people will still do it. I think there's plenty of other things to preoccupy our minds with than worrying about other people doing something we think is "abhorrent". I don't agree with abortion, and think it's murder, but I choose to utilize my time and efforts towards the things I can control vs. the things I disagree with but have no control over.

What I don't understand is how someone can come to AB, who already has a communal, to ask questions and only receive backlash. If you don't agree with OP having a communal, don't respond, and allow them to receive help from someone who's views differ from your own. You're not going to change their mind about their decisions by bashing on the ones he's already committed to. Help them where they're at, or don't respond.

OP, if you want to have a communal, go for it. I don't agree, or disagree. I also don't have the answer to your original question, but what happened here wasn't necessary.

 

[EulersK]

I mean, to each their own. You can hate it all you want, and people will still do it. I think there's plenty of other things to preoccupy our minds with than worrying about other people doing something we think is "abhorrent". I don't agree with abortion, and think it's murder, but I choose to utilize my time and efforts towards the things I can control vs. the things I disagree with but have no control over.

What I don't understand is how someone can come to AB, who already has a communal, to ask questions and only receive backlash. If you don't agree with OP having a communal, don't respond, and allow them to receive help from someone who's views differ from your own. You're not going to change their mind about their decisions by bashing on the ones he's already committed to. Help them where they're at, or don't respond.

OP, if you want to have a communal, go for it. I don't agree, or disagree. I also don't have the answer to your original question, but what happened here wasn't necessary.

You gave a false equivalency there. You disagree with abortion, but you're not on a site dedicated to it. This site is first and foremost about the love of arachnids. Putting them in an environment that will result in their death is met with backlash because, again, this forum is dedicated to their welfare.

It's not like we're out here knocking down doors to force people to change. But if they come here asking for advice, they'll be told why what they're doing is wrong.

 

[EnigmaNyx]

You gave a false equivalency there. You disagree with abortion, but you're not on a site dedicated to it. This site is first and foremost about the love of arachnids. Putting them in an environment that will result in their death is met with backlash because, again, this forum is dedicated to their welfare.

It's not like we're out here knocking down doors to force people to change. But if they come here asking for advice, they'll be told why what they're doing is wrong.

Wrong in you're opinion, don't forget to keep that part in there.

 

[Frogdaddy]

@EnigmaNyx tens of dozens of keepers have attempted this. A few have been moderately successful. To my knowledge none has been successful long term. As in successive generations in the same enclosure. I think there are two trains of thought here.
1. I can do it better than they did.
2. I'm going to try it just to try it.

Let me address these points.
1. Perhaps they think they are a better keeper than the keepers that tried communals 10 years ago. Maybe or maybe not. What are you going to do that's so radically different that will bring you success? A room sized enclosure?
2. Ignoring past precedents is silly and dumb. Knowing the outcome before you start and you proceed anyway. It's like saying, yeah I know 100 people have died trying to catch a bullet in their mouth, but I'd like to give it a shot anyway.

Let's all remember the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[EnigmaNyx]

@EnigmaNyx tens of dozens of keepers have attempted this. A few have been moderately successful. To my knowledge none has been successful long term. As in successive generations in the same enclosure. I think there are two trains of thought here.
1. I can do it better than they did.
2. I'm going to try it just to try it.

Let me address these points.
1. Perhaps they think they are a better keeper than the keepers that tried communals 10 years ago. Maybe or maybe not. What are you going to do that's so radically different that will bring you success? A room sized enclosure?
2. Ignoring past precedents is silly and dumb. Knowing the outcome before you start and you proceed anyway. It's like saying, yeah I know 100 people have died trying to catch a bullet in their mouth, but I'd like to give it a shot anyway.

Let's all remember the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

And that's all well and good but it's not anyone's place to tell him not to do it. Regardless of the wonderfully valid points you made, it doesn't amount to anything at the end of the day except to back up the common belief around here to not do communals.

Great, we've established no one here likes them, and that's okay! I respect the opinion either way. But gathering up as a group to crap on the dude for having one rather than just giving him a simple answer about the T in question doesn't seem productive or constructive in my opinion. It's closer to a bullying mentality than a constructive one. It doesn't take a mod to see how many new people come in for a singular post and disappear due to feeling outcast because of something they said that's against the "AB Code".

Thank you all for stopping by to offer your opinion that what he's doing is Satan's work. I think you've well established the thoughts of the herd.

I'll excuse myself from the convo, since we seem to be running in circles. That tends to happen with opposing or even neutral opinions. Today is rehousing day for the communal, I call it the "T Salad", because it has a little bit of every species in it.

 

[Smotzer]

@EnigmaNyx stick around longer in the hobby and you will get it. And the OP isn’t doing research lol they are just a victim of the stupidity that exists in this hobby on the large scale. We take this stand against communal because we are here for the care and well being of arachnids.

@EnigmaNyx I’ve seen you tell people to add more substrate so that a tarantula doesn’t die in a fall, but you think the risk of death in communals is somehow different?? Please explain to me that.

 

[Matt Man]

It is most likely looking for an escape or distancing itself from the other Ts as best it can. It is doing so, I would guess, as a method to survive. I am sure the substrate is already scent marked by the other 2 Ts and it senses it has no open range
I am basing this on my knowledge of Wild Ts, which seem to develop certain ranges for themselves

 

[mack1855]

@EnigmaNyx why so defensive?.I don't believe anybody "crapped " on the OP.Communals fall apart more than they succeed.
And the abortion thing..wow.Now that's a stretch.

 

[Reezelbeezelbug]

And yet every seller of balfouri in the classifieds on this site lists them as communal and sells with communal price break-points

 

[Matt Man]

And yet every seller of balfouri in the classifieds on this site lists them as communal and sells with communal price break-points

when you have an excess of inventory it is a convenient way to reduce it. File under "caveat emptor"