"Safe" caging issues

[Buggzter]

I'm dealing with something VERY stupid. My daughter's father and I are speaking with a judge about custody issues and child support, and Justin complained about the 24 tarantulas I have...

He said that they were in "flimsy boxes" "all over my house"... Um... They are all in proper-sized Kritter Keepers, and kept in the animal room only except when feeding/watering/maintenance is happening since there is more room in my kitchen to do what I need to...

So the judge flipped out, and it's possible my daughter will be removed from my home unless I can show that it's safe to keep them in Kritter Keeper type housing...

Anyone here have "official" type resourses that I can use as evidence that people use these fairly often for tarantulas and that there is no danger of them escaping as long as they are latched properly? Also, what exactly would any of you suggest as "evidence" that would be concise for the judge to understand that tarantulas are not really dangerous if dealt with properly???

You see, the judge said that the only thing he really knows about tarantulas is that "they put those on people in the movies to kill them!!!" :wall: I can't blame him for not knowing the truth, but I've had these for a year and a half and no escapes or problems at ALL... At least I have some time to prove this...

 

[Moltar]

For starters I would get some published literature such as the Tarantula Keepers Guide and highlight certain passages. Then take pictures of your setups showing how they are properly kept. While you're at it take pics of the animal room itself, the door and latch (and lock if there is one) and anything else that underscore the responsibility question. Also reference any info about the low toxicity of tarantula venom as common misconceptions have people believing they are "deadly".

Unfortunately there isn't as much official documentation in this hobby as there is most other exotic pet trades. We're mostly amateurs here. The people holding degrees in arachnology are all out there in South America and India studying new species and such rather than writing papers useful to the hobbyist at home. (I would be too...)

Good luck to you. I hope this works out.

 

[Guitout]

I agree with etown. The best thing you can do is find as many books as possible such as the tarantula keepers guide and others and do like he said. You could also try getting a hold of some of the big names in the hobby such as Todd Gearhart and Michael Jacobi and see if they have any advice or resources. Good luck.

 

[scottyk]

Never look for legal advice on an internet forum. Contact an attorney, go over your situation and get it taken care of before you lose custody of your daughter....

 

[K1j1m]

Never look for legal advice on an internet forum. Contact an attorney, go over your situation and get it taken care of before you lose custody of your daughter....

Probably your safest bet.

 

[WARPIG]

I agree with the attorney part, but have your attorney present hobby websites so the judge can look for himself how T's are kept SAFELY in the hobby. Have selected pages/links referenced in advance so the judge can see that you are not doing anything out of the norm or irresponsible.

PIG-

 

[Skullptor]

Never look for legal advice on an internet forum. Contact an attorney, go over your situation and get it taken care of before you lose custody of your daughter....

I second this. The ONLY person that can help you is an attorney. I can tell you this much. You can show all the books you want to the judge, but the only thing he will be looking at is YOU and your child's father. He will make his decision based on what he sees in you two and not a book.

I do think that etown has a good suggestion with obtaining these books for reference for your lawyer to use to show that a responsible person can keep tarantulas safely. But it's up to you to show that you are that responsible person. Good luck!!

 

[Sooner]

I would also suggest you find some local universities and check the biology departments there. There should be at least one biology professor who are familiar with invertebrates and you can send him/her an e-mail about your situation. You then can have the professor write a statement concerning the minimal hazards of keeping a tarantula.

I'm sure the judge would gladly listen to a Dr. Stevens saying, "tarantulas are perfectly fine to keep and poses less of a threat than a pet dog to a child."

EDIT:

Here are a couple of entomology pages:

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/intro.html

http://biology.cos.ucf.edu/

http://biology.usf.edu/

http://www.bio.fsu.edu/

You should look for a faculty page and see if they're studying zoology, entomology, or arachnology. You should not contact a biochemist, cell biologist, microbiologist, or a botanist since they will not be as informed on the subject.

 

[mandarb]

I am going through the same thing with a custody issue. She brought up the fact she does not want our son around dangerous animals, though when he was a baby we had the same animals in the house then as I have in my house now.

My attorney suggested new caging with locks and placing a lock on the room that houses any and all animals the court may deem dangerous. Nevermind the fact she still has some large dogs, including an Akita, that I bought her. Take photographs of all the cages and be prepared to answer numerous questions by the judge or mediator about the animals.

 

[clam1991]

like sooner said
and get a proffessor to actually come to the court and explain tarantulas
it'll be more signifigant if it comes from a professional

 

[clam1991]

and if you want ill try n send pics of my 3 year old holding and playing with my tarantulas.
he adores them
hes been bitten by 3 dogs but never has been harmed or scared by a tarantula
and you can quote me on that

 

[reverendsterlin]

an attorney will be able to give the best advise as well as suggest what would and would not benefit you in court. There are several professional papers on toxicity available on the web, as well you may try contact with ATS and BTS members, I'm sure this stunt has been attempted before. As a keeper of venomous snake I can assure you that the burden of proof for the court remains on your shoulders. An attorney's advise is about the only advise you should actually follow in this matter.
Rev

 

[jeff1962]

I am a step father and beleive me I can feel your pain. A person's ex will find anyway they can to hurt the other party, even if its unreasonable. In the end you may have be prepared to give up the hobby for awhile.

In the end its your child that must come first.I wish you the best of luck in this matter.

 

[Sooner]

I just did some more research, I can recommend that you find a medical doctor to also give information to your lawyer.

If your lawyer has access to a tarantula pet book, a written statement from an entomologist regarding the mild venom of a tarantula, and a written statement from a medical doctor who will specifically say that tarantula venom is mild and comparable to a bee sting, along with the appropriate safety precautions, then you should have it all covered.

Boomer!

 

[desertdweller]

Good input here already. Just want to ad you might get a photo of someone holding a T and de-intensify the whole issue. Ever thought of taking in one of your Ts to court and wearing it on your shoulder? LOL Just kidding.

I do demonstrations with Ts to show people how harmless they are. Once a person sees me holding one, they hold it. I have NEVER experienced someone not holding a T after they see me doing it. If the judge actually held one, you'd be in the clear. My most heartfelt hopes for you, your child and your Ts!

 

[Skullptor]

I know I already posted my opinion. but I would like to add this...

I've been there with the ex and the courts. Please don't buy into these theories that showing pictures of kids playing with T's or bringing an entomologist will teach the judge something. I know several colleagues that are "experts" in their fields and testify in courts on a regular basis. If you think that an expert can walk into the courtroom and be the 'coup de grace' for you, you will suffer for that mistake. Your child is way to important to take that chance. Sure a judge will listen to what he has to say and the other lawyer will rake him over the coals and make him wish he never stepped into the courtroom. If he is not familiar with the expert testimonial realm, he will certainly be no good to you. Again, it's not about whether T's are harmfull, a judge can find that stuff out himself in no time. He wants to know if YOU are harmful.



I could have brought a number of "acronym people" to come testify of my behalf...I didn't. I went in there with a good lawyer and fought for my parental rights. I did my best to show the judge who I am and what kind of parent I am, and that's what worked for me.

Everybody has something that the other can use against them. YOu are going to take some hits no doubt, but if the T's are a problem for the judge and you aren't, he will ask you if you would give up your T's for your child, and you don't even have to answer me what you will say. Keep your head high!!