Rant/Discussion: Arachnophobia vs Fear

[Jason B]

I've had two different experiences in my life with two different phobias, my ex was absolutely terrified of spiders, to the point she would not enter a room if she knew there was a spider in it. Sometimes I'd come home from work and have to deal with a spider that was in the bathroom because she had to go. At one point we met a person who had a Rose Hair, and surprisingly the rose hair didn't bother her so she wanted to get a tarantula because she thought it would help her deal with her fear of true spiders. And it worked, the one tarantula to help her get over her fear became my new hobby, building a collection of something to the extent of 56 Ts. About a year and a half later we broke up and I got myself in some money troubles and had to move in with some family that wouldn't allow me to bring my collection with me. So I ended up having to give her my collection and she would take care of them as she found them new homes and it seemed like a better option then trying to sell them to my local pet store or something like that. So I can say that she went from someone who wouldn't go to the bathroom because a spider was in there, to someone I trusted to take care of my spiders.

Now my own personal phobia has nothing to do with spiders, but I am afraid of heights. I've also been in situations where I've found myself doing a cpl of roofing jobs on the side for extra money but there is anxiety I deal with a new situation regarding heights is always the same anxiety to the extent I sometimes makes my stomach upset. I have to force myself past the anxiety, and never comfortable on a roof I get to the point where I can handle that roof. Now if I go to say a new situation with heights i'm starting over. At one point I worked in larger outlet store working retail, about once a week me and a co-worker would have to walk around with a 14 foot ladder and replace burned out bulbs. It took me a few months of doing that for me to get to the point where I was comfortable with climbing that ladder and changing the bulbs. Another job we had a crawl space that required us to climb an 8 foot ladder to get into the crawl space. I worked there for three years and it was only during the last year I wasn't hit with a wave of anxiety every time I had to go into there which was once every 2-3 months. And this job was after the retail job but conquering the 14 foot ladder did not translate into climbing 8 foot ladder without any fear.

 

[Kendricks]

I never claimed that a phobia isn't fear, I think that's blatantly obvious. What I said was just cause someone is afraid of something doesn't mean they are phobic, they could just be frightened, the average person is unsettled by spiders, that doesn't make them all arachnophobic. You then proceded to disagree with the definition of what a phobia is, so I could ask you the same thing.

Huh? I never said you claimed phobia isn't fear, I quoted grimmjowls, not you.
In fact, I never talked to you. I did disagree with your post though, yes, maybe I should have been more specific.
To clarify, this is what I disagree on in your post:

@sasker Being fearful of something does not make a phobic, a phobic would avoid it at all costs, the aversion would be so prevalent it could affect their day to day life. You can decide for yourself what you have/had.

This is simply not true and that is why i clicked on "I disagree".
It can be like you described, absolutely, yes. But it doesn't have to be.
That much should become very clear upon reading about Arachnophobia.

And yes, someone being afraid of spiders does mean they are phobic. That is the very definition, and I didn't disagree with the definition (though definitions vary), I support it, so what are you talking about?

 

[D Sherlod]

You are all arguing degrees of fear...

Medical definition
Phobia: An unreasonable sort of fear that can cause avoidance and panic.Phobias are a relatively common type of anxiety disorder. Phobias can be treated with cognitive behavioral therapy, using exposure and fear-reduction techniques. In many cases, antianxiety or antidepressant medication proves helpful, especially during the early stages of therapy


To sum it up
all phobias are fear related
not all fears are phobias

 

[Nightstalker47]

This is simply not true and that is why i clicked on "I disagree".
It can be like you described, absolutely, yes. But it doesn't have to be.

Seriously? What you underlined is exactly what defines a phobia, that kind of erratic behavior.

You are all arguing degrees of fear...

Medical definition
Phobia: An unreasonable sort of fear that can cause avoidance and panic.

To sum it up
all phobias are fear related
not all fears are phobias

Just quoting you for the valuable information. It seems few understood this was my point from the start.

 

[Kendricks]

Seriously? What you underlined is exactly what defines a phobia, that kind of erratic behavior.

I think you misunderstand my point.
I'm not saying the underlined part doesn't fit the definition of a phobia, on the contrary, I'm trying to point out that phobias, or anything psychological, can be different for people.
While your phobia might cause you to 'just' feel anxious and make you start to sweat and gets your heart racing, my phobia might be so severe that I completely freak out upon the slightest confrontation.
Do you see what I mean?

 

[Moakmeister]

I've always thought tarantulas were the least intimidating spiders because they're fluffy like a little mouse or a dog, but a lot of my friends say they think tarantulas are scary BECAUSE of their hair. One time after a friend said that, I showed her a picture of a trapdoor spider (basically a hairless tarantula) and she was like



"FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF--- THAT"

 

[Crone Returns]

I posted this before I remembered how judgemental this forum has been since I joined over a year ago. I'd rather a staff member just lock or delete it, really. I'm not interested in discussing it anymore with people who don't know me and just want to tell me how much of a trash T keeper I am.

Ignore those people or put them on your ignore list. I like your thread.

 

[Andrea82]

The best definition I've read and applied in my work is this:
'A disorder only becomes a disorder if the person who has the disorder is hindered by it in every day life.'

This can be broadened of course by 'if the people around the person with the disorder are hindered by it in every day life'.
Simple.
One can be terrified of spiders but live in Antarctica...it won't be a hindrance so that person isn't bothered by it.
Now, if that same person is living in Australia, he or she, and their friends and family, are going to be bothered a lot by the persons disorder.

Is it really that simple?
Yes. Yes it is.

Phobias can get overcome, or lessened. But that depends on how much the person is (again) bothered by it.

Phobias are very specific, usually. So it is possible to fear one kind of spider only, like @Moakmeister illustrates so nicely .

Nobody can say 'your phobia isn't real, or less than mine' because it is different from one person to the next, like all disorders are. You can put ten people in a room who suffer from depression, and they will all be unique in their disorders. They share maybe two or three traits, but that's it.

 

[viper69]

I had a phobia once, then someone told me it's all in my head. So I shook my head around and it fell out my ears onto the ground, no longer phobic.

In point of fact, I've not been phobic about anything. But it is real for some people, tons of phobias out there.

 

[Ellenantula]

I don't think keeping Ts cured me of my arachnophobia. I view Ts as pets and I feel confident that I know how to care for them and what they are capable of.

It's the unknown spiders that make my heart jump in my throat. I do cope better -- I can generally catch-cup and release a strange spider from my home. This is progress -- I used to be unable to be in the same room with a spider and needed someone else to kill the demon from hell. Now, I can take a deep breath, remind myself I am bigger than the spider and that the spider just happened to roam into my home -- with no ill intent. lol
In fact, I wintered-over a true spider (Nov 2015 - March 2016 before release -- feeding it pinhead roaches). But I admit, small as it was, I was relieved to release it outdoors after months of "what if it runs out of its vial" fears -- and this fear, in spite of its webbing heavily and staying put during feedings & web misting. A good spider house guest indeed. I think the fear (even though Ts are the same) was how FAST he attacked his prey.

I think with true spiders -- it's the element of the unknown. Education helps, but that gut reaction of "OH MY GOD -- SPIDER!!!" may always remain my first response.
I don't know if the day will ever arrive where I could suddenly see a spider and have no reaction beyond 'oh look, a spider.'
I still have good days and bad days still, re; unknown spider roaming my home.

Ts are pets -- like little hamsters - just not the same as true spiders. Somehow, keeping Ts didn't cure me. It just added another type of pet I adore keeping. True spiders have that element of the unknown -- a creepy-crawly invader in one's house. Not the same.
I hate arachnophobia.

 

[CWilson1351]

I have a couple more broad example of phobias vs. fears I am personally terrified by tornadoes. Living in MI for a few years didn't help as every thunderstorm brought on "severe" warnings and tornado warnings/watches. Typically the worst I would get is nervousness and dry eyes from watching the weather channel incessantly. One time however I had to be physically restrained from rushing out of the house, in my underwear, getting in the truck and hauling (A) as far away in the opposite direction. Never in my mind has this been something I would consider a phobia. Even during my attempt at near streaking Primary reason is that as long as there is no immediate threat, tornadoes are amazing acts of nature. I actually liked learning a bit about them and how they occur.

Part two has to do with my mother. And sorry, this is gonna be a TL;DR
When she was very young, 3-4 I believe, she walked out of the back door of the house and on the steps to the yard was "The GD'd biggest freaking snake ever!" Well, living in WA that truly wasn't the case. Chances are, it was just an exceptionally large Garter.
From that moment forward, she could not even be in the same house as a snake no matter the size or if we're enclosed or not. It was so bad that as a kid I would get locked out of the house if I caught any snakes. At least until I let them go and they got away from the house. She had a friend who owned a very large Burmese Python, which of course was the coolest thing ever to me. She never let me forget the time we went to visit and I ran into the house to see him. Normally I'd go in with the husband so I could see Houdini, but small children get excited easily. I digress, I ran in and there Houdini was, he had earned his name again and escaped his padlocked cage. I was so happy he was out I screamed for my mom. Big mistake... She came in and froze. Completely. Then her friends realized what was happening and helped fix everything.
Fast forward some years and my love for snakes has only grown while she is still horribly frightened. We had found a Pet Supplies Plus that carried various snakes, most importantly they carried the dog food we gave to the Malamutes. No surprise, but I'd spend as much time as I could looking at, holding, and wishing for the snakes.
For the first year or so my mother would just patiently grab the dog food and go wait for me. Eventually I wore her down and shed stay in and observe me with the snakes.Slowly, 30ft away became 20, then 10, and closer and closer as I was holding snakes. free seeing how docile most of them were, she calmed her snake hatred. I even got her to touch a tiny little Boa once. Then one day I decided to test my theory... While holding a very young Burn, I asked the employee about another snake, and without warning I said "Here Mama, hold this" and casually set the burm in her hands. After taking a couple steps I turned to look and even though she was nervous, the fear was gone. That was quite a few years ago, but when she moved to Arkansas 2 years ago she told me she was getting herself a ball python once she was settled in.
So there is my contribution Tornadoes + Me = Fear and intrigue. Mama + snakes = Phobia that became admiration.
In summary, I have seen first-hand that something just about anybody would call a phobia can be managed. Or how a rational fear of a natural disaster can cause a person to behave irrationally.

P.S. Sorry for being so long winded

 

[grimmjowls]

Ignore those people or put them on your ignore list. I like your thread.

Thank you.

And uhm... when did I ever say a phobia isn't a fear?

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Now my own personal phobia has nothing to do with spiders, but I am afraid of heights.

Ah, me too! What´s a bit strange is that I weren´t afraid of heights when I was younger. I first started to feel a bit dizzy by heights in my early 20´s and now I´m in my 30´s and it only seems to get worse

 

[grimmjowls]

Phobias are still fears. Irrational fears, yes, but still: Fears.

Phobias aren't just fears. They're disorders. They're not rational.

I never said they were not fears.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I am personally terrified by tornadoes.

Ah... well, ah ah, a pretty reasonable fear, my man, if I can permit to say this

 

[Garth Vader]

Oh my gosh. I could write a book here. I will hold myself back though. My passion for treating anxiety is the whole reason I became a tarantula owner!

So the definition of a phobia (from the DSM 5) is that there is marked fear or anxiety about a specific object or situation (spiders, flying, seeing blood, etc). Other components include:
-The object or situation provokes an immediate response of fear and/ or anxiety.
-The object or situation is actively avoided or endured with intense fear or anxiety.
-The fear or anxiety is out of proportion to the actual danger posed by the situation or object.
-The response is persistent, lasting 6 months or longer.
-It causes clinically significant distress or impairment across environments (home, work, socially, or other areas of functioning).
-It is not better explained by symptoms of another disorder, such as a different anxiety disorder like obsessive compulsive disorder or panic disorder.

The evidenced based treatment is cognitive behavioral therapy which looks at how the thoughts, emotions, and behaviors are perpetuating the phobia.

I don't consider it clinically significant/ necessary to treat unless it really impacts someone's life, interferes with functioning and regularly causes HIGH levels of stress and/ or lots of avoidance. For example, many people feel fear or disgust when they encounter spiders. Now the people I've treated for arachnophobia struggle with not wanting to go outside, refusing to enter rooms in their house, and they experience severe anxiety when they are around spiders. They may also have complex rituals around checking for spiders, disposing of spiders, and so on. It's not uncommon for people like this to even refuse to say the word SPIDER, which is often one of the first exposure sessions I do with people-saying spider over and over again.

I specifically do exposure therapy for different issues- phobias, PTSD, panic disorder, and so on. I teach people to approach the things they are avoiding so that their brains can learn that the object/ situation can be tolerated and eventually it changes the emotional response and the overall belief system, both of which perpetuate the avoidance and the high emotional arousal. I don't do "talk" therapy for it, because I find that doesn't work very well, rather the treatment is all about creating new learning experiences to overlay the learned fear that perpetuates the anxiety. It's very interesting and quite effective. So when people come in here and write about getting a tarantula to help with fear, in my opinion they are generally on the right track.

Those are my 2 cents, for whatever it is worth! Now I know that @Chris LXXIX is going to come back and write about the leather couch in my office. I must clear up that it is a gray couch and it is not leather. People sit on it rather than lying on it, and I am a behavioral therapist and not a Freudian therapist.

 

[Nightstalker47]

Oh my gosh. I could write a book here. I will hold myself back though. My passion for treating anxiety is the whole reason I became a tarantula owner!

So the definition of a phobia (from the DSM 5) is that there is marked fear or anxiety about a specific object or situation (spiders, flying, seeing blood, etc). Other components include:
-The object or situation provokes an immediate response of fear and/ or anxiety.
-The object or situation is actively avoided or endured with intense fear or anxiety.
-The fear or anxiety is out of proportion to the actual danger posed by the situation or object.
-The response is persistent, lasting 6 months or longer.
-It causes clinically significant distress or impairment across environments (home, work, socially, or other areas of functioning).
-It is not better explained by symptoms of another disorder, such as a different anxiety disorder like obsessive compulsive disorder or panic disorder.

The evidenced based treatment is cognitive behavioral therapy which looks at how the thoughts, emotions, and behaviors are perpetuating the phobia.

I don't consider it clinically significant/ necessary to treat unless it really impacts someone's life, interferes with functioning and regularly causes HIGH levels of stress and/ or lots of avoidance. For example, many people feel fear or disgust when they encounter spiders. Now the people I've treated for arachnophobia struggle with not wanting to go outside, refusing to enter rooms in their house, and they experience severe anxiety when they are around spiders. They may also have complex rituals around checking for spiders, disposing of spiders, and so on. It's not uncommon for people like this to even refuse to say the word SPIDER, which is often one of the first exposure sessions I do with people-saying spider over and over again.

I specifically do exposure therapy for different issues- phobias, PTSD, panic disorder, and so on. I teach people to approach the things they are avoiding so that their brains can learn that the object/ situation can be tolerated and eventually it changes the emotional response and the overall belief system, both of which perpetuate the avoidance and the high emotional arousal. I don't do "talk" therapy for it, because I find that doesn't work very well, rather the treatment is all about creating new learning experiences to overlay the learned fear that perpetuates the anxiety. It's very interesting and quite effective. So when people come in here and write about getting a tarantula to help with fear, in my opinion they are generally on the right track.

Those are my 2 cents, for whatever it is worth! Now I know that @Chris LXXIX is going to come back and write about the leather couch in my office. I must clear up that it is a gray couch and it is not leather. People sit on it rather than lying on it, and I am a behavioral therapist and not a Freudian therapist.

That was quite interesting, thanks for shedding some light on the topic.
Unfortunately, it seems @Chris LXXIX has left the forum, I dont think he will see your tag.

 

[Garth Vader]

That was quite interesting, thanks for shedding some light on the topic.
Unfortunately, it seems @Chris LXXIX has left the forum, I dont think he will see your tag.

He left?!?! I am so sad. Anyone know what happened?! Im out for a few weeks and Chris is out, that's a big bummer.

 

[Kendricks]

He left?!?! I am so sad. Anyone know what happened?! Im out for a few weeks and Chris is out, that's a big bummer.

"Personal reasons".

 

[sasker]

Anyone know what happened?!

I looked up his last activities and apparently he got into a disagreement in the watering hole with someone who accused him of ranting too much about politics, or something. If this is the main reason, I think that is really unfortunate. I thought the watering hole was the place to talk about whatever you want and the other person could have just used the 'ignore' option that AB provides if he doesn't like what he hears. I learned to avoid the topics 'politics' and 'religion' if you want to keep the conversations light in a bar