Question about Old World Tarantulas

[Venum]

So I have a problem. I can't stop buying tarantulas... I am an experienced herp keeper, but I have never acquired reptiles so fast. I now have 5 slings and 1 sub adult in a little over two months. What is it about this hobby that is so addicting?

I have a question about Old World T's. Why are they not recommended for beginner keepers? There is an expo coming up in my area and I was thinking about purchasing some M. Balfouri slings to make a communal enclosure. I have the design planned out, but I wanted to ask if this is a stupid idea for someone who has only recently started keeping T's. I don't want to be irresponsible, and there is always next year, so I would appreciate some advice in that regard.

 

[Liz72]

My understanding is that OWs tend to be faster, more reactive, and more defensive than NWs. (There are exceptions to every rule, but this is the general trend.) Instead of flicking urticating hairs, they bite--and their venom can be more potent, to the point of being medically significant. Looking at the bite reports for P. murinus might give you a better idea than I can.

 

[Paul1126]

They are faster, nastier temperaments and have stronger venom.
Spiders aren't going anywhere anytime soon, you're best off in my opinion just to enjoy the ones you have for now.
A first time OW keeper, a communal is a huge no-no to be honest.
Communal setups are all the rage these days, I wonder why?

I like your user name by the way

 

[Venum]

They are faster, nastier temperaments and have stronger venom.
Spiders aren't going anywhere anytime soon, you're best off in my opinion just to enjoy the ones you have for now.
A first time OW keeper, a communal is a huge no-no to be honest.
Communal setups are all the rage these days, I wonder why?

I like your user name by the way

Thanks for the advice. I think you're right that I'll stick to the ones I have for now.

 

[Andrea82]

What are the species you have slings of and the juvenile?
2 months in... That is very fast to go into OW, imo. And you also want a communal, which has it's own troubles.
My advice is that you would be better off sticking to NW for now, and learning how to fine-tune your care of them. Get through a couple of moults, learn how to 'read' their behaviour in terms of defense, hiding, running, kicking hairs or get into threatposture. Rehouse a couple of times to see and experience how that goes, and what's the safest way for you to do so.
Depending on how you're doing after this, get a faster more defensive species like Psalmopoeus irminia, or Ephebopus murinus and work your way through that. If you have safely raised and rehoused these sort of species you can go branch out.
I understand the attraction, I've been there. But you don't want to get yourself into a situation where there is an OW escapee occupying your house, trust me.
The spiders will still be there in 6 months or a year, or even two years from now.

This sticky has useful information on how to proceed and what species are considered intermediate:
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/tarantula-information-for-beginners-and-more.318718/

 

[Venum]

What are the species you have slings of and the juvenile?

I have a juvie A. seemani that I rescued from deplorable conditions at a local pet store. The slings I have are T. Violaceus, B. Hamorii, B. Albopilosum, and A. Geniculata. I want to add more adult females to my collection, but I also try to remember that patience is a virtue (especially in this hobby).

I think what I'll do is avoid the communal for a while. Your comment about an OW loose in my house reminds me that I have young children, and I don't want them to be bitten by one.

 

[Hoxter]

Keeping old worlds is one thing that some begginers with zero to few months of experience can pull off. Even I jumped to them pretty fast and consider myself very lucky with how laid back those Ts were. However keeping old world communal seems to be something on a completely different level,
Considering what species you have right now, better stick to new world tarantulas, let them grow and get used to how they are. In the meantime you could try getting some new worlds known for their attitude, speed and defensiveness and see how you feel dealing with them.

 

[MainMann]

Look to yourself and ask yourself the question instead of asking other keepers. Are you ready for a spider that can bolt across your tongs faster than you can blink? Are you ready for a spider that packs venom that'll render you miserable for up to a week? Those statements may be a little exaggerated, but it's best to really prep yourself before jumping into the OW scene. Train yourself by working with Nhandu and Psalmopoeus spp. to get the feel of how an OW T will be like. A good rule of thumb, when you're ready you'll know it best of luck!

 

[Andrea82]

I have a juvie A. seemani that I rescued from deplorable conditions at a local pet store. The slings I have are T. Violaceus, B. Hamorii, B. Albopilosum, and A. Geniculata. I want to add more adult females to my collection, but I also try to remember that patience is a virtue (especially in this hobby).

I think what I'll do is avoid the communal for a while. Your comment about an OW loose in my house reminds me that I have young children, and I don't want them to be bitten by one.

You have a T.violaceus sling?? Haha, oh boy, you're going to learn a thing or two about speedy spiders
Lovely spiders, pretty decent growers and feeders but they can be skittish and the genus that species belongs to is one of the speediest spiders there are, doing laps around even the fastest OW. Their venom is NW though, so nothing to potent, and they also don't have urticating hairs.
With A.geniculata you will have a spider who you learn from to keep your hands and fingers out of the enclosures because everything that moves is food to them.
B.hamorii and albopilosum are decent starter species, B.hamorii can be a bit fast to kick hairs.
A.seemanni will give experience with a burrower and not to worry if you don't see it for a couple of days/weeks.
You've covered a lot of ground in your first spiders, nice work

Re: OW and escapees... Yeah, tell me about it. I've had an H.maculata sling escape in my (luckily closed off) attic where I keep my spiders. I have a 7 year old around and I've never been so carefull with closing and opening that door, absolutely terrified at the thought of it biting her. I didn't get a good night's sleep until I found it after two months, dessicated.

I got it as a freebie and I wasn't too happy about that from the start. I should have just given it away or something but for some stupid reason I kept it. I opened its vial and the damn thing was hidden in the webbing on the lid of the vial, racing over my hands and went put of sight in a matter of seconds.

Their venom may not be deadly, but for a child there can be severe implications if he or she gets bitten, not to mention the pain he or she will be in. I had very vivid nightmares about my daughter getting bitten and how her crying would sound like... Not a thing to risk. Ever. The very idea still makes my stomach cramp up.

 

[Venum]

A.seemanni will give experience with a burrower and not to worry if you don't see it for a couple of days/weeks.

Yea the pet store had her in an enclosure with zero substrate. Just some reptile carpet. She will be much happier where she is now.

Regarding the tappy, it is extremely fast. I actually purchased this one thinking it was an A. Purpurea as they both go by the common name "Purple Tree Tarantula." I have enjoyed this one so far because it is a great eater, but I'm guessing a rehouse won't be fun.

 

[Andrea82]

Yea the pet store had her in an enclosure with zero substrate. Just some reptile carpet. She will be much happier where she is now.

Regarding the tappy, it is extremely fast. I actually purchased this one thinking it was an A. Purpurea as they both go by the common name "Purple Tree Tarantula." I have enjoyed this one so far because it is a great eater, but I'm guessing a rehouse won't be fun.

Tom Moran has a nice video on rehousing one of this genus:

 

[Vanessa]

My understanding is that OWs tend to be faster, more reactive, and more defensive than NWs.

There are plenty of fast, and defensive, new world species. Those traits are in no way limited to old world species. The only thing that really sets OW species apart is their venom toxicity. You have a Tapinauchenius - a genus that is reputed as being the fastest tarantulas on the planet. There are plenty of defensive NW species as well and many of them are far less shy than a lot of the OW species are - some are far more likely to stand their ground with you as full grown adults. An 8" Acanthoscurria geniculata female giving you a threat posture and slapping at you is not something to take lightly.
Yes, the New World category is the one that contains the species that are appropriate for brand new beginners - species that are hardier and less likely to be defensive and teleporters. However, those beginner friendly traits are absolutely not found in every single NW species by a long shot. As a matter of fact, those traits are not found in anywhere near as many NW species as people think.
I would never recommend that a brand new person, who hasn't even gained the experience of having a juvenile around, delve head first into OW species - especially a communal setup of them. I think that is a disaster waiting to happen - even if some people have been lucky enough to avoid having a disaster.

 

[Cherri]

I've been in the tarantula hobby for 6 years. I had a p Metallica, p regalia, h mac, and m balfouri. I had to sell them all and currently only have NWs. Get a p irminia in a couple months to get used to the speed. Plus if you get bit it's not medically significant. M balfouri is a good starter OW if you like pet holes though, imo. Australian have no choice but to start with OWs so it's not impossible. NWs are just as fun, just wait.

 

[Vulksgren]

Depending on how you're doing after this, get a faster more defensive species like Psalmopoeus irminia, or Ephebopus murinus

Got three slings of the P. Irminia and had to rehouse them recently. First one went in with ease, second one I had to chase, and the third bolted and hid inside my gaming mouse. Was able to get em 8 hours later, friends of mine decided to call him/her Spooks for whatever reason but that's its name lmao. Came to find out an hour later I made the wrong type of enclosure (made for aboraels who build high, completely forgot to consider that) and have to rehouse them again. Yay.

 

[FrDoc]

Everything said above is true, but at the end of the day, you need to determine your readiness/comfort zone. If you want to work your way into OW’s now, get a sling. Slings, both OW and NW, are generally skittish, and fast. If you can rehouse an A. geniculata sling you can rehouse an OW sling. I rehoused a H. gigas and a C. schmidti last night. The gigas was much easier than most of my NW specimens. The schmidti was demonic. However, it took me about the same amount of time for each because I took my time to watch how they were going to act and proceeded accordingly. The venom issue is hyped. I say this because you shouldn’t get bit. If you use tongs, catch cups, don’t do any more prodding than is absolutely necessary, and take your time, it won’t happen. A primary consideration you should have is your home situation. Escapes, as @Andrea82 related above, are a real possibility and no matter how awesome a handler you may be, folks and pets around you warrant a lot of consideration.

 

[MintyWood826]

It's because a beginner is more likely to make mistakes, and an OW is more likely to have worse consequences when it comes to something like a failed rehouse, for reasons being stated above. They are all fast and their venom is very bad, albeit not deadly.

 

[cold blood]

There are plenty of fast, and defensive, new world species. Those traits are in no way limited to old world species. The only thing that really sets OW species apart is their venom toxicity. You have a Tapinauchenius - a genus that is reputed as being the fastest tarantulas on the planet. There are plenty of defensive NW species as well and many of them are far less shy than a lot of the OW species are - some are far more likely to stand their ground with you as full grown adults. An 8" Acanthoscurria geniculata female giving you a threat posture and slapping at you is not something to take lightly.
Yes, the New World category is the one that contains the species that are appropriate for brand new beginners - species that are hardier and less likely to be defensive and teleporters. However, those beginner friendly traits are absolutely not found in every single NW species by a long shot. As a matter of fact, those traits are not found in anywhere near as many NW species as people think.
I would never recommend that a brand new person, who hasn't even gained the experience of having a juvenile around, delve head first into OW species - especially a communal setup of them. I think that is a disaster waiting to happen - even if some people have been lucky enough to avoid having a disaster.

Thank you Vanessa for clarifying these facts.

Old Worlds are recommended for experienced owners because of their potential. New keepers are bound to make mistakes, it's part of the learning process.

Make your mistakes where they matter little, not where they send you or a child to the hospital or send you searching for an exterminator because you can't find some high potent old world running around your house. With experience with new worlds these errors will be minimized, once your mistakes are minimized through experience, only then should you be looking to get Old Worlds.

It drives me nuts hearing that the reason is because Old Worlds are meaner or more defensive or faster. Some of the fastest tarantulas in our hobby are new world, if you took the top 10 most defensive tarantulas in the planet I bet half of them would be new world. But the potential for danger is still nothing compared to what it is with even the most mild tempered old world.

 

[Venum]

I appreciate everyone who took the time to reply. I won't be getting any OW species anytime soon.

 

[Venum]

I know I'm backtracking a bit, but my friend who is an experienced T keeper said P. Regalis is a good OW species to start with because they have even temperament. I know each individual's personality will vary, but is that generally true of this species?

 

[Lorgakor]

I know I'm backtracking a bit, but my friend who is an experienced T keeper said P. Regalis is a good OW species to start with because they have even temperament. I know each individual's personality will vary, but is that generally true of this species?

In my experience, P. metallica, P. subfusca and P. miranda have been the calmest pokies I've worked with. P. ornata and P. rufilata were the flightiest. P. regalis was kind of in the middle, with P. formosa, P. fasciata and P. striata. Again, just my experience.