pygmy rattlers

[Telson]

Originally posted by johnnyjohnjon
ok I still am not getting the snake... but the reason I didn't ask how to tube or neck it is because I allready know. to tube you put the snake in a bucket of water put the tube in front and stop it after it is halfway up by grabbing the tube and snake in a firm grip. just firm enough not to let the snake go any further up or back. ok now to neck the snake you place a hook just above the venom glands and grab the snake on the base of the head so it doesn't have room to turn and get ya and you use the classic three finger grip. I'm not just a moron who wants a venomous snake if I was I would get a cobra they are only like 30 bucks more. so please lay off once again I AM NOT GETTING A PYGMY RATTLESNAKE. for now at least. and plesae someone tell me a good snake to get that would prepare me for a pygmy rattlesnake.

Personally, if I wanted to prep to keep a pymy rattler, I'd go catch a small wild bullsnake of some kind, prefferably (due to majority of experience telling me it's a good choice for comparison) a juvi WC california gophersnake. They share very similar habbitat and though the gophersnake is meaner than most diamonbacks I've caught as a general rule, it's as close as I can think of to behavioral patterns in all other repsects. Just make sure you don't get it acclimated to being handled by working with it too regularly, though most of the WC gophersnakes I've had refused to calm down no matter how long they were in captivity or how much handling they got (another reason it's seems to me to be a good choice for this purpose).

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

-Telson

That is exactly why I talked myself out of it......

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by HerpInvertGirl
I have read accounts of these snakes being so agressive they will strike at you when you walk past the cage. Dont know how true that is, but it made me think again. Yeah, so it wont kill me, but I dont enjoy getting tagged and dodging bites any more than the next girl.

Offcourse temperament differ between individuals but what you say is not my experience with these snakes. The ones i dealt with only bite when bothered.

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by johnnyjohnjon
ok I still am not getting the snake... but the reason I didn't ask how to tube or neck it is because I allready know. to tube you put the snake in a bucket of water put the tube in front and stop it after it is halfway up by grabbing the tube and snake in a firm grip. just firm enough not to let the snake go any further up or back. ok now to neck the snake you place a hook just above the venom glands and grab the snake on the base of the head so it doesn't have room to turn and get ya and you use the classic three finger grip. I'm not just a moron who wants a venomous snake if I was I would get a cobra they are only like 30 bucks more. so please lay off once again I AM NOT GETTING A PYGMY RATTLESNAKE. for now at least. and plesae someone tell me a good snake to get that would prepare me for a pygmy rattlesnake.

Ok cos first you wrote you never have to touch the snake so i wondered what you would do if the skin got stuck etc.
I´personally wouldnt tube any ven snake in a bucket.
No room for it to get into the tube and can very easy explode and freak out.
Why do you think people who wants a cobra are morons?
Buy a 1.1 bullsnake and see in 5 years if you still are interested in snakes.

/Lelle

 

[TheWidowsPeak]

I have kept many watersnakes and wild kings, black snakes, and so on. like I allready said, all that keeping a bull snake will do is get me into habits that you can not use with a venomous snake, regardless of whether I treat it lke a venomous snake or not I will still pick up bad habits, I have kept aggressive species before and all that did was make me less scared of getting bit because I did all the time and it ddn't hurt so I didn't care. on anouther forum I posted the same wuestion only it was a venomous snake forum where everyone has venomous snakes. and they are all very suportive, noone has yet to mention don't buy it. they are very nice people and say that a pygmy is a great beginer species. they told me all kinds of great information unlike anouther forum I posted on that everyone ragged me and called me a moron. can you believe that, everyone with the exception of a few all insulted my intelegence and really made me angry. so now that you keep insisting I can not do it maybe I will. you just never know. since this will be my last viewing of this thread please don't respond to this. thank you

 

[Telson]

Originally posted by HerpInvertGirl
-Telson

That is exactly why I talked myself out of it......

It had a lot to do with me not getting one too, but the price tag was a bigger reason in my case! (lol!)

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by Telson

Not trying to slam, but I'm kinda confused... did you not make BOTH of these posts or was someone else at your computer? You seem to be saying that keeping non venomous snakes doesn't prepare a person for keeping venomous ones, then the very next post seems to advocate it along with the research and study of the venomous species a person plans on keeping.

I think its natural for someone intressted in snakes to get nonvenomous, to keep those for many years to learn more about snakes in general. After years of keeping them perhaps he/she get interested in venomous and take it from there.

I dont recommend a freshman on snakes to get a nonvenomous to train with and then think he/she are prepared after 6 months - a year to take on a diamondback or whatever.

See the difference?

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by johnnyjohnjon
I have kept many watersnakes and wild kings, black snakes, and so on. like I allready said, all that keeping a bull snake will do is get me into habits that you can not use with a venomous snake, regardless of whether I treat it lke a venomous snake or not I will still pick up bad habits, I have kept aggressive species before and all that did was make me less scared of getting bit because I did all the time and it ddn't hurt so I didn't care. on anouther forum I posted the same wuestion only it was a venomous snake forum where everyone has venomous snakes. and they are all very suportive, noone has yet to mention don't buy it. they are very nice people and say that a pygmy is a great beginer species. they told me all kinds of great information unlike anouther forum I posted on that everyone ragged me and called me a moron. can you believe that, everyone with the exception of a few all insulted my intelegence and really made me angry. so now that you keep insisting I can not do it maybe I will. you just never know. since this will be my last viewing of this thread please don't respond to this. thank you

So they gave you answers you wanted.
Maybe you left out the comparison with the poecs on that forum?
For me that shows you dont know what you getting into and thats enought for me to not encourage anyone to get a venomous snake. Is that so hard to understand?

You seems to be a unmature little kid that getting a rattler on spite. What do I really care if you loose a finger or two?
Its not our hobby here that suffers from people like you who wants attention.

/Lelle

 

[Wade]

Re: Re: training snakes

Originally posted by Code Monkey


I'm personally not in favor of private individuals keeping hot snakes without being properly certified by an unbiased agency, but that's a bit of a pipe dream. It's a very illegal hobby in most of the U.S. and it's unlikely the average person curious about doing so is going to have access to a qualified mentor. Conversely (and a little oddly), our black market loving mentality gives anyone who really wants one access to them with some money and either a shipping location or a good reptile show.

Chip-

It's actually not as illegal as you may think. It is illegal in some states, but legal in a surprisingly large number, including VA (where we both live). In fact, I attended a venomous show in Bristol, VA a couple of months back. Some counties do ban them, however.

There has been a recent surge in popularity of "hots", as evidenced by the increase in the number of hot shows. This concerns me, as I feel an uncomfortablely large number of those entering the hobby have no business owning any sort of hot snake. This could not only lead to a backlash against private hot keepers (which wouldn't effect me) but against the exotic pet trade in general (which would!).

I'd hate to see an overall ban, but my impression is that Florida actually has a rational approach concerning hots that could serve as a model for other states. They require a license to keep venomous species, and to get that license you have to prove you're up to the task, which I think even includes a 1-year "apprenticeship" working with an experienced licensed keeper who must sign off that he feels you're ready. Any hot keepers in Florida who can either confirm or deny this feel free to chime in.

For the record, I work with some hots...timber rattlers, eastern cottonmouths, and copperheads. I do NOT have them at home, caring for them part of my job (along with many other reptiles and amphibians). Keeping hot snakes at home is a whole other ball game, one I've opted not to play. For one thing, at work I'm always at my best...wide awake and alert. Both my boss and co-workers are knowledgeable about snakes and would know what to do if I did get bit, and we have a protocal to follow if it happened.

JJJ, if your'e still reading-

I'm not going to try to tell you what to do, but if you're still considering getting into hots, heres a few thoughts:

1. One resource that may be close to you is the Kentucky Reptile Zoo, run by Jim Harrison, one of the most knowledgeble (and nice) guys working in the hot reptile scene today. They're in Slade, KY (not sure how close that is to you). They may be able to help you work out a treatment protocol if you did get bit.

2. Speaking of protocol, you're going to have to do better than having a hospital 10 mins away. Find out if that hospital has any experience treating snake bite. Bad medical treatment can kill you quicker than venom, believe me!!!

3. I think you may be under the impression that the pygmy is a good choice because it's small and therefore doesn't have the big strike range. While this may be true to a point, also consider how small a baby pygmy is. I have no experience with pygmies, but among colubrids I've noticed that those species with very small babies are often the most difficult to get started feeding as well as being delicate in general. Do you really want to have to assist feed this snake?

Anyway, good luck. If any of the comments here have offended you, keep in mind the decisions you make can have negative reprecussions for the rest of us, even if we don't keep hots. There are many animal rights groups out there who would love to have this as yet annother weapon against us.

Wade

 

[Reitz]

DISCLAIMER: I know very little about snakes. This post is in no way meant to offer advice on snakes, but to offer ideas that more educated hobbyists can (if they choose) comment on.

Ok, there's a local pet shop I frequent that recently offered a hog-nose snake. It should be mentioned that I patronize this shop becuase they often mislabel scorps so that I make out with great deals! Anyway, I was *told* that hog nose snakes are mildly venomous rear-fanged herps. So mildly venomous, in fact, that they can be sold as non-venomous. Sounds fishy to me, but is that true? If so, that might be a good snake for ohnnyjohnjon, who was asking for alternitives for his tank. If this info is true the snake would be helpful (I assume) in teaching proper handling techniques, as well as offering an interesting pet. What do you guys think?

Now, my recommendation--which is probably really off base in terms of what you're looking for john--would be a communal C. gracilis (florida bark scorp) tank! They're wonderfully active little guys who almost always use their sting to immobilize prey. In a 55 gallon tank you could keep up to 50 of them! They're arboreal, which makes them very easy to take care of and gives you almost unlimited options for decoration. Also, with that many scorpions you'll always have some that are walking around, drinking, carrying young or even breeding! What could be better? But that's just the scorp keeper in me.

Good luck,
Chris

 

[Telson]

I've had a hog nose before and temperment is nothing like any kind of rattler, so it will react much differently and thus not be of much value for "practice". Also, the source of their venom is from being toad eaters in the wild and captive born, or even those that have been in captivity for a serious length of time, do not have their "venom".

 

[Ravnos]

While I agree hognose are absolutely nothing like any rattlesnake, they DO have a Duvernoy's gland, which produces a mild toxin, regardless of their consumption of toads or not. Eastern hognose should be fed a diet of toads in captivity anyway, while Westerns and others do ok on a rodent diet.

Rav

 

[Telson]

Originally posted by Ravnos
While I agree hognose are absolutely nothing like any rattlesnake, they DO have a Duvernoy's gland, which produces a mild toxin, regardless of their consumption of toads or not. Eastern hognose should be fed a diet of toads in captivity anyway, while Westerns and others do ok on a rodent diet.

Rav

Really?

Ok... Not even the first time I've been wrong!:? I must have been missinformed then. Could have sworn I'd read that about their venom being a result of their diet, but I may be missrecalling the source and it could well have been one of the reptile guys that told me this instead. Thanks for the info.

On that topic though, do you happen to know if it's also not true about poison arrow frogs? I no longer recall if I read or was told this about them, but I've been "informed" by one means or another that their toxins are a result of their diet as well, and if that's wrong about the hognose I'd like to know if I'm also missinformed regarding dart frogs?

 

[Ravnos]

To my knowledge, it is true about dart frogs. I haven't really read a lot on them to be absolutely positive. I'm more into snakes than amphibians. I believe they get their toxicity from eating insects (ants) which eat toxic plants in the rain forests. Ah, the cycle of life. One on a diet of crickets in captivity in theory would not be dangerous... I wonder if there has been any specific studies done about this.

Rav

 

[Telson]

I know we got some in a shipment when I worked in one of th local pet stores and there was some concern because it wasunclear if they were WC or CB. Got confirmation they were 3rd gen CB before anyone would mess with them, lol. I don't recall what specific type there were, but they were the black ones with some green on them. At least they were not the yellow ones!!

 

[Bry]

Originally posted by Telson
I know we got some in a shipment when I worked in one of th local pet stores and there was some concern because it wasunclear if they were WC or CB. Got confirmation they were 3rd gen CB before anyone would mess with them, lol. I don't recall what specific type there were, but they were the black ones with some green on them. At least they were not the yellow ones!!

As long as you didn't attempt to eat them, I think you should be fairly safe.

Bry

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by Ravnos
To my knowledge, it is true about dart frogs. I haven't really read a lot on them to be absolutely positive. I'm more into snakes than amphibians. I believe they get their toxicity from eating insects (ants) which eat toxic plants in the rain forests. Ah, the cycle of life. One on a diet of crickets in captivity in theory would not be dangerous... I wonder if there has been any specific studies done about this.

Rav

Youre right - dentrobadids enhance their venom from prey items, snakes produce their own venom.
What exactly insects enhance the frogs venom isnt clarified to my understanding.

A dutch guy at a convention was going to prove that captive dendrobatid frogs lost their venom by putting a longterm captive kept P.terribilis in his mouth.. he was seriously poisioned and rushed to hospital.
So, probably they dont loose it - it becomes weaker.

/Lelle

 

[Telson]

OMG!!


THAT'S the yellow ones I was refferring to! I couldn't remember what they were called though!

He did that with a long term captive though... I wonder if it would have been the same result if it was a CB, or even a 2nd or 3rd generation CB?

The answer to that question could have some serious ramifications in the pet trade where they are concerned...:?

 

[Ravnos]

Hehe, that is extremely silly. Most amphibians have skin excretions that we wouldn't want to ingest, regardless of whether it is actually dangerously toxic. I'm sure dart frogs probably have some natural bodily mechanism that just happens to combine with their diet to be even more dangerous. Afterall, in their native habitat they would be a light snack for many things.

But we digress from the original topic.

Rav

 

[Crotalus]

Lucklily terribilis isnt the most commonly kept or offered dendrobatid in the hobby, atleast not here in Sweden. Im not sure how many species that are dangerous for humans but terribilis is for sure one of them.
I´d not take a chance with a 100 gen. CB either ;-)

/Lelle