Plz respond asap!

[Aviara]

Just to point out, with full knowledge that the world of invertebrates is unique from the world of vertebrates, the Rhacodactylus ciliatus species, or the crested gecko, also consumes their shed skin. Unlike invertebrates, these geckos have very elastic skin and grow gradually, not in bursts in post-molt periods. They do so simply to recycle their skin and for convenience, but the process is not crucial to survival.

I believe it is possible that centipedes also consume their shed skin to recycle the nutrients, as well as to remove organic matter that may attract pests, but that the behavior is not crucial to molting. As I pointed it previously, some of the true spiders will consume extra webbing. This is mentioned on p. 57 of the Tarantula Keeper's Guide, and elsewhere, and is an example of "recycling" behavior in an organism much closer to centipedes than a gecko. The true spiders consume the extra silk because it is a waste of rich nutrients to leave it, but the action is not crucial to their survival.

I do not know whether the nutrients from a centipede's molt are necessary for the molting process. I do know that there are many examples in nature of organisms simply recycling extra nutrients once they are done with them. Many mammals will consume the placenta after birth for the same reason. Perhaps the pattern of recycling is simply repeating itself here.

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

Allright, though my statement may have been made soley through what I have witnessed in my 25 years of animal keeping, my college bio courses, and 10 years of keeping at least 1 or more centipedes at all times, yes it was just an observation.

But not one minute of experience with the actual question but your answer wasn't "I don't think it's a good idea though I've never done it" it was this:

Never ever remove their molt, it is supposed to be eaten or they wouldn't do it. It is their way of reclaimiming the nutrients to harden their exoskeleton. Bad idea ever. Search posts before doing something bad.

 

[J Morningstar]

Valid point, my observations are not facts, nor did I have the first hand knowledge to back it up. Sometimes if something has worked for me I want to share that for I think it may help others in the future, but stating erroneous unsubstantiated things is wrong.

 

[Anonymity82]

Bad idea ever. Search posts before doing something bad.

Haha! Love it. Maybe use it for my signature?

 

[Galapoheros]

Haha! Love it. Maybe use it for my signature?

lol, yeah it does kind of have a ring to it, there's a funny analogy there somewhere, just can't think of it atm, maybe something like, go to school before you do surgery, way to go JM haha! I know off topic I suppose but, dead thread walking anyway. ...well I don't know I thought of something but I think most people wouldn't be interested enough to do it. That would be, having a group of pedes, taking the molt away from half and leaving the other half with theirs and see what the results would be, if any. Hard to do I know, you'd have to catch them molting, keeping them all in delis eyeballing ones that are premolt all the time. I've gotten good at it, I could do it but I'm not so interested.

 

[SDCPs]

I've only keep one species of cockroach, you probably know which
Pill millipedes are so highly specialized and fragile, but REALLY cool looking though! Have you ever had success keeping the Madagascar species?

having a group of pedes, taking the molt away from half and leaving the other half with theirs and see what the results would be, if any. Hard to do I know, you'd have to catch them molting, keeping them all in delis eyeballing ones that are premolt all the time.

Already done perhaps:

The experience part is having taken away molts purposefully and not purposefully from giant centipedes and observing no detrimental effect.

As to the question regarding nutrients obtained from the exoskeleton, Shura Sigling, a German millipede (not centipede, but perhaps centipedes behave this way for the same reasons) enthusiast and author of the "Millipedes" professional breeders series, writes:

Before the old exoskeleton is shed the calcium salts in the layer beneath, which are needed for the development of the new skin, are absorbed and temporarily stored in fatty tissues and the liver...Eventually, the old cuticula bursts open in the area between the head and the head shield, and the head and the antennae will be pulled out from the old skin...The millipede will recycle the valuable calcium carbonate salts contained in its shed skin (exuva) by ingesting it.

May I be so bold as to offer a conclusion?:

If you are an idealist you might as well leave the molt in. However, centipedes do have a thin exoskeleton compared to millipedes and easily obtain calcium from the exoskeletons of their prey, perhaps leaving them in a position--as shown by experience--where denying the organism the benefit its exuva (LOL, complex words give one an edge) seems in no way harmful and should not interrupt the molting process.

 

[J Morningstar]

Haha! Love it. Maybe use it for my signature?

As long as it's not just to make fun of me. I have a developmental disorder which makes it very hard for me to understand emotional or lack there of people in general. I never understand some of the people here (as we can see) but I am trying...

 

[Galapoheros]

Already done perhaps:

Originally Posted by Elytra and Antenna
"The experience part is having taken away molts purposefully and not purposefully from giant centipedes and observing no detrimental effect."


Maybe, but I think it would be more accurate to have two control groups of the same species and same instar to see if there are any affects over time, not only to see if there are any detrimental affects, which I know is the focus of the thread, but to see if there are any harmful affects at all. It would be a little difficult to pull that experiment off though. I would at least want to involve 5 individuals in each group. Who knows, maybe taking away the molt over and over again is detrimental. Not likely of course from what I've witnessed also.

 

[J Morningstar]

Even if it was only marginally helpful, I would not, nor intend to stop what seems to be the natural order of the organisms life cycle. If it was unimportant and not merely instinctual I would think you'd find them left over from time to time..But again just a theory.

 

[voldemort]

Have kept and still keeping local pedes (from the Philippines), and all consume their shed exoskeleton. I also thought of taking some of the sheds (especially a bulky S. morsitan). Haven't done it yet but sure am enjoying reading this thread.

Mike

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

Even if it was only marginally helpful, I would not, nor intend to stop what seems to be the natural order of the organisms life cycle.

I'm guessing that means you will no longer be keeping invertebrates (or specifically centipedes?) in captivity since pulling them from the environment and placing them in a box where they feed on prey species they would likely never encounter in nature are far greater disturbances to the natural order than one missed exoskeleton (they're bound to miss a molt in nature now and then when disturbed). I think it's a great thing to study and enjoy Earth's creatures but it's your choice of course.

 

[J Morningstar]

I'm guessing that means you will no longer be keeping invertebrates (or specifically centipedes?) in captivity since pulling them from the environment and placing them in a box where they feed on prey species they would likely never encounter in nature are far greater disturbances to the natural order than one missed exoskeleton (they're bound to miss a molt in nature now and then when disturbed). I think it's a great thing to study and enjoy Earth's creatures but it's your choice of course.

Even someone with limited intelligence could tell I was trying to make the statement that some keepers try to make the setting as close to the animals natural environment as possible, (without adding the predators and dangers therein) so that the life of the kept could be as healthy and successful as possible. And trying as little to experiment on them or disturb them once established in their "new homes". You sarcasm is not appreciated, nor helpful to anyone here. I apologize to everyone for bringing down the tone of this post.

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

Even someone with limited intelligence ...

Why do you always have to resort to name calling?

 

[J Morningstar]

I didn't call you a name or specify at all, it was a statement in response to your statement. If it helps, I regret I questioned your I.Q.. I simply do not see the point to incite a discouraging tone and clearly take things out of context when I, although strongly influenced by my observations, am always open to everyone's opinion, no matter how rude or self assured, as long as it's not rude to me or others. I wish to learn here, contribute and grow as a person. You are the only person here in nearly 10 years who treats me like you do, nor have I had nothing but constructive and good times here, other than your posts. I do not understand your biting unconstructive, confusing sarcasm, and you know it.

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

I didn't call you a name or specify at all, it was a statement in response to your statement. If it helps, I regret I questioned your I.Q.. I simply do not see the point to incite a discouraging tone and clearly take things out of context when I, although strongly influenced by my observations, am always open to everyone's opinion, no matter how rude or self assured, as long as it's not rude to me or others. I wish to learn here, contribute and grow as a person. You are the only person here in nearly 10 years who treats me like you do, nor have I had nothing but constructive and good times here, other than your posts. I do not understand your biting unconstructive, confusing sarcasm, and you know it.

You really don't understand that your entire post is full of rude comments, unconstructive, and unrelated to the topic at hand? I'm sure many people do not bother you here because they fear your angry response to contradiction of your opinion.

 

[Travis K]

This has actually been an interesting thread given the lack of interesting threads on AB as of the last 12 months or so, but your bickering is rather juvenile. I was surprised to see it from the two of you.

As for the actual discussion I fall on EA's side of the fence. I really like the idea of removing the molt and leaving a prekilled roach in there with it though. I think shed exos of a large pede would be great looking in a shadow box.

 

[zonbonzovi]

Let's not allow what could be a fruitful discussion to devolve into a display of personal enmities. Please confine those to PMs, please

I was incorrect in my hasty, initial assumption...centipedes and as far as I have learned, all animals that rely on passive tracheal breathing inflate the newly molted body via that phenomenon. The consumption of the molt is thought (Lewis uses "probably") to be an efficient means of reclaiming "phenolic-rich protein"(Biology of Centipedes, Lewis). Thought to be...there is still room for hypothesizing. Lewis cites Blower as researching the effects of these protein molecules, termed prosclerotin, as being a precursor to sclerotin. I think it reasonable to presume that while this prosclerotin may not have any initial effect on the present molt, it is a useful building block in the following molt(http://jcs.biologists.org/content/s3-92/18/141.short). As Gala mentioned, we would have to compare the makeup of exoskeletons wherein the molt was removed vs. molt consumed to determine the effect.

Since I'm paraphrasing here and not a trained biologist, I could be off track. Please do amend if you think this is the case.

 

[J Morningstar]

Zonbonzovi, Thank you for your eloquence. I have always tried to be polite and helpful to everyone here, and did try to keep this in PM's, I just felt attacked and insulted several times. I apologize for any misconduct. I have an emotional disorder akin to Asburgers which prevents me from understanding the nuances of some peoples emotions and expressions, I realize this is my failing but have never had issue with another board member. Done.
Travis K: I hate when this happens but I really simply don't understand people like EA so it always goes bad. I am a Minister, have counseled many and am respected even more in my community, I apologize you had to suffer through that.
Z., Yes, I had too, read articles that pointed to the observations pointed to in Lewis's statement. I know it is a thought. This and my personal experience are what I based my initial statement on. But the argument of offering a prekilled unless as soft as the shed, I am not sure this would be as easily metabolised, but again speculation. But to afford the broods needed, take blood samples from over 20 or so centipedes and have that big a control group, then have all other factors coincide would be very hard if not impossible to do a through analysis in the usual scientific manner. I don't even know if you could get blood samples without killing them. I have no knowledge in that respect. But since it is of little importance to anyone but us here, I doubt this experiment will happen any time soon.

 

[Greenjewls]

I remember watching a nature program once, and the narrator said something like "the centipede must eat his entire shed skin to plump his body before his new skin hardens." It is an unqualified and unexplained statement, but I think it includes a warning that sticks with people. I was left with the impression that a centipede needs to eat the shed for its good health. But like most television programs on invertebrates, you can't take it as gospel. The truth is, centipedes like to eat, it's what they love most. They even eat their own eggs. The question isn't why do they eat their exoskeleton, it's why wouldn't they? Let's say they don't eat for a week pre-molt, they aren't going to eat prey for a week post-molt, and in the middle they find themselves sitting on a pile of free food... of course they will eat it. In the wild, there are no other guaranteed meals. They might not survive without this free meal in the wild. Is it important in captivity, when nutrients are always readily available? Probably not. In a controlled experiment, I am sure the group of centipedes allowed to eat the molt would eventually grow bigger than a deprived group but simply because of a greater food intake.

 

[Galapoheros]

The fact that their jaws are hard enough to eat it right after the molt, even though the exuvia is soft, supports they evolved to eat it for some reason. There are also centipede eating snakes in some areas. So it may also keep it's scent down at lower levels if they eat it, helping it stay hidden from predators.