Pet puppy advice

[Jones0911]

What are good small breed dogs that are active and good for a family with 4 kids (one teenager, 10yr old 4yr old and a 1yr old)?

For right now we are just researching breeds and looking around won't be buying any breed no time soon.

I prefer to buy whatever breed we end up getting as a puppy so I can teach my kids responsibility even though I know I'll be doing most of the work lol.

Also unless they have actual puppies at any adoption place we won't be adopting any dogs.

We don't want any of the larger breeds like rotties etc and we don't want anything that gets too muscular like a pit but we do want it to be active.

My lady and I work a few days week so we'll definitely have time to spend with the dog to train it and socialize it.

The kids are very active so the dog will always be happy, tired etc lol.

I really like pits but she has her worries about them so I'm not forcing that issue.

So the next dog I had in mind was a short haired terrier like the one MILO from the mask movie with Jim carrey.

or a fox terrier





http://www.justdogbreeds.com/jack-russell-terrier.html

ihttp://www.justdogbreeds.com/toy-fox-terrier.html



here's why :
- short hair (we aren't fans of too much shedding everywhere)

-active

-quick learners


Any personal experience down side?

I also like the MIN PIN

(http://www.justdogbreeds.com/miniature-pinscher.html)

only down side is it sheds a fair amount but otherwise seems like another good choice.



The Manchester terrier is also a good option.



I've never been a fan of poodles but the miniature one is definitely in the running for its ease of training and lack of shedding.

http://www.justdogbreeds.com/miniature-poodle.html



Below are the size dogs she says she would be ok with but I'm sure I can convince her to get certain other breeds with the right proof.

Also I have no idea what breed these dogs are below, to me they look like poodles mix with some type of lapso apso breed but I could be 100% wrong lol:



I know I said small dogs but I don't feel certain sized medium sized dogs are out the picture so here's my list for those:

I love the pharaoh hound pure beauty and the big ears and golden coat really caught my eye

http://www.justdogbreeds.com/pharaoh-hound.html



As for large dogs

I only dobie.....is the "turn on you" myth true or some falsehood made up about the dobies?

picked http://
www.justdogbreeds.com/doberman-pinscher.html

 

[The Snark]

The rather obnoxious Snark bellows into the wings, "YO! PBL! SHELL! This is your cue!"

I will also toss in my 2 cents. It sounds like you are selecting a new car and weighing all the features and options. That's one way, if rather cold and mercenary, to make a decision. But what about heart? Love of an animal, and it's love for you, will never be measured by breed or amount of pillow stuffing shed per year.

I had two very close friends. Both chose me. Both were as aloof as they come and disliked being touched. One had a tendency to slaughter the neighborhood dogs, bring their carcasses home and eat them on the lawn. Neither was a Poodle-Dachsund nor an Akita. Just very close friends and boon companions. The make and model entirely irrelevant. Meant as little to me as my ancestry to them.

 

[tarantulagirl10]

It's good to see that you are putting some thought into this instead of seeing a cute puppy and buying it, then learning about it later. Every dog is an individual, so just because a breed is known to be kind or easy to train, or good with kids, or whatever doesn't mean that it will be. That's one thing good about getting an adult dog, you have an idea of their "personality". They are plenty of responsibility, believe me. Anyway, nothing wrong with a puppy either (except they have tiny bladders and need to be every 10 minutes and chew things for 3 years lol). Of the ones you listed, Jacks tend to be high strung. I love them though. A girl that works with me has two and they are fantastic. She is an athlete though, and they are able to let off a lot of steam. They also come to work with her every day, so they get lots of attention from a lot of people. I know a number of Jacks , and most are good family dogs. Min pins I love too. I don't know anyone with kids that has them come to think of it, so I can't really say anything about that. A good friend of mine has one and she lives on a horse farm. The dog likes all the kids that come but isn't overly excited to see them. Poodles are good dogs. They do need regular grooming (more so than the short haired dogs). So, that is something to keep in mind. Let's see, have you looked into Beagles? Not too small and fragile, but generally love kids, are smart, and have great attitudes. There are also mixes of small dogs that end up in shelters and rescue centers.

 

[pitbulllady]

If you are looking for a SMALL dog, you definitely need to cross the Pharaoh Hound and Doberman off the list, lol! Toy Manchesters and Min Pins both tend to be nervous, rather delicate little dogs with little tolerance for rough-housing kids, so you can cross those off, too. IF you are up the energy level of a Jack Russell, that might be a good recommendation; just be aware that their energy level and prey drive is off the charts, so you will have to be on your toes to keep the dog out of trouble. Actually that applies to most terrier breeds, but terriers are rough-and-tumble dogs that can take a lot from rowdy kids, and most do not require a lot of grooming unless you plan on showing it. Cairns, Westies, Fox Terriers, Irish Terriers-all probably would suit your bill pretty well. I am going to recommend a couple of breeds that are not AKC recognized, though, which might be even better for what you want, the Rat Terrier and the Patterdale Terrier. Rat Terriers come in three different sizes, from Toy to a medium-sized dog known as a Decker Rat Terrier, which usually weighs over 25 pounds. They are energetic but tend to not be as hyper as a Jack Russell. The Patterdale, a fairly rare English breed, resembles a small black, liver-colored or blue Pit Bull Terrier with a docked tail. They are stockier than Jack Russells, and again, have a lot of energy but tend to be more sedate when at home. Both breeds have intense prey drives, though, and the Patterdale is a very "game" dog which will tolerate a great deal of abuse and rough-housing. Rat Terriers are always smooth-coated, while Patterdales, like Jack Russells, can have smooth, "broken"(semi long-haired) or wire-haired coats. Here's a Wikipedia article on Rat Terriers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_terrier and here is the official Patterdale Terrier Club's website: http://www.ptca.00go.com/ . Be aware that if you live where there's Breed-Specific Legislation, a Patterdale could be considered a "Pit Bull-type" dog and be seized and destroyed. They are also expensive, being a rare breed, but many of the breeds you already researched are also expensive, either with initial purchase or cost of maintenance and grooming. If you like APBT's, but can't have one of those and want something smaller, a Patterdale is the way to go.

pitbulllady

 

[Jones0911]

It's good to see that you are putting some thought into this instead of seeing a cute puppy and buying it, then learning about it later. Every dog is an individual, so just because a breed is known to be kind or easy to train, or good with kids, or whatever doesn't mean that it will be. That's one thing good about getting an adult dog, you have an idea of their "personality". They are plenty of responsibility, believe me. Anyway, nothing wrong with a puppy either (except they have tiny bladders and need to be every 10 minutes and chew things for 3 years lol). Of the ones you listed, Jacks tend to be high strung. I love them though. A girl that works with me has two and they are fantastic. She is an athlete though, and they are able to let off a lot of steam. They also come to work with her every day, so they get lots of attention from a lot of people. I know a number of Jacks , and most are good family dogs. Min pins I love too. I don't know anyone with kids that has them come to think of it, so I can't really say anything about that. A good friend of mine has one and she lives on a horse farm. The dog likes all the kids that come but isn't overly excited to see them. Poodles are good dogs. They do need regular grooming (more so than the short haired dogs). So, that is something to keep in mind. Let's see, have you looked into Beagles? Not too small and fragile, but generally love kids, are smart, and have great attitudes. There are also mixes of small dogs that end up in shelters and rescue centers.

Thanks for typing out all that greatly appreciated that you took your time to do so

I thought about a beagle but if you don't give them a job won't they be wide awake at night?

Same for the jacks?

---------- Post added 05-17-2014 at 03:37 PM ----------

If you are looking for a SMALL dog, you definitely need to cross the Pharaoh Houndof a Jack Russell, that might be a good recommendation; just be aware that their energy level and prey drive is off the charts, so you will have to be on your toes to keep the dog out of trouble. Actually that applies to most terrier breeds, but terriers are rough-and-tumble dogs that can take a lot from rowdy kids, and most do not require a lot of grooming unless you plan on showing it. Cairns, Westies, Fox Terriers, Irish Terriers-all probably would suit your bill pretty well. I am going to recommend a couple of breeds that are not AKC recognized, though, which might be even better for what you want, the Rat Terrier and the Patterdale Terrier. Rat Terriers come in three different sizes, from Toy to a medium-sized dog known as a Decker Rat Terrier, which usually weighs over 25 pounds. They are energetic but tend to not be as hyper as a Jack Russell. The Patterdale, a fairly rare English breed, resembles a small black, liver-colored or blue Pit Bull Terrier with a docked tail. They are stockier than Jack Russells, and again, have a lot of energy but tend to be more sedate when at home. Both breeds have intense prey drives, though, and the Patterdale is a very "game" dog which will tolerate a great deal of abuse and rough-housing. Rat Terriers are always smooth-coated, while Patterdales, like Jack Russells, can have smooth, "broken"(semi long-haired) or wire-haired coats. Here's a Wikipedia article on Rat Terriers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_terrier and here is the official Patterdale Terrier Club's website: http://www.ptca.00go.com/ . Be aware that if you live where there's Breed-Specific Legislation, a Patterdale could be considered a "Pit Bull-type" dog and be seized and destroyed. They are also expensive, being a rare breed, but many of the breeds you already researched are also expensive, either with initial purchase or cost of maintenance and grooming. If you like APBT's, but can't have one of those and want something smaller, a Patterdale is the way to go.

I know those two aren't an actual option but they're just so beautiful, for sure though she doesn't want any thing that will get over 30 lbs (forgot to add that) something like a jack Russell or rat terrier I can probably get her on board with.

I'll look into the Patterdale also thanks!!

 

[cold blood]

I also applaud you for looking seriously into this before you get one, instead of just snatching the first cute one you see.

Pretty good advice PBL. Patterdales are really cool, but they are not very popular and can be difficult to find and spendy when you do. I had a friend a while back that used to hunt his patterdales, they were little badasses. They, like most terriers, can be stubborn and difficult to train. The Jack russel is often lauded as one of the most intelligent breeds, but they are also notoriously stubborn. Many of the very active smaller breeds can be tougher to train and do require a lot of time and energy.

Poodles require a lot of maintenance, only if you desire that classic show "poodle" look. If its a family dog, occasional clippings are about all you need to worry about. They are highly intelligent, easy to train and typically good with families and kids. Their fufu persona turns a lot of people away from them, which is a real shame. They also tend to be hypoallergenic and don't do much shedding.

Another good one is a pug. Cute, loads of personality, typically good with kids. They have enough energy to play a lot, but also tend to have an overall calmer demeanor.
I would avoid min pins as they tend to be skittish, aggressive and not tolerant of a lot of stuff. Big time barkers as well very often. Also, unlike the Doberman that they look like, they are not what I would call an easy training dog. The Doberman is in fact the only breed of dog on the planet bred specifically for obedience training and are crazy easy to train and unbelievably intelligent (I have had 2). The min pin is not.

I would also avoid a beagle, as great as they are. I grew up with one, and they can be great. Problem with them is their prey drive is off the charts. This can make obedience training difficult and can also make them escape artists. They like to run, chase and bark a ton while doing so. Their extreme vocalizations have been encouraged over many generations so that people hunting with them are able to follow them in and through the woods, even at great distances. Mine was not really like that so much, but all of her litter mates were. With a family situation I don't think dogs with this kind of prey drive are always a good fit. They are cute as a button (mine was actually named Buttons) and great with kids otherwise.

Truthfully, a good option for your situation would be a mix breed. Poodle mixes are great as they usually carry the intelligence and hypoallergenic characteristics of the poodle. They also tend to be generally very healthy. Puggle and lahsa-poo are both good ones that are not too difficult to find. My neighbors just got a rat terrier/beagle mix that is an outstanding dog. Athletic, good looking, intelligent and great with everyone and every dog...its quickly become my boxers bestest friend. Mix breeds also tend to cost significantly less.

A Lhasa Apso is a great family dog that may fit your bill. Easy to train, playful, good with kids and energetic, but with their small legs, you can tire them easily.

Speaking of small legs, I would HIGHLY recommend looking at a Pembroke Welsh Corgi. A highly overlooked family dog, with great attitude, despite their short legs, they can play all day, they tend to be very social with both people and other animals and are cute as hell! They were bred to herd cattle, so you know the little guys are tough...their legs were actually bred to be short so that when a cow/bull kicks, it goes over their heads. This is my #1 recommendation for you to look at. I have yet to meet one with a bad or aggressive attitude.

A Basenji is another, especially if you like the look of a pharaoh hound, as they are related and share the basic head shape. Highly energetic, as most sight hounds tend to be, but can be great with families..although they tend to become attached to one member in particular. They are highly intelligent, but like many intelligent breeds, this can make them tough to train, so you really need to keep on top of them, especially as puppies. The unique thing about the basenji is that they are barkless. Their uniquely shaped larynx doesn't allow for the "classic" bark many expect from a canine. They can make noise, but its described as more of a yodel. They also like to stand on their hind feet to get better looks at things, kinda like a meercat. They also tend to be aloof and guarded with strangers, not a bad thing if there are children to keep an eye on.

These are but a few for you to look at. When the time comes to pick out the pup, there are a few things I like to do to determine temperament. First, and the most obvious, is to hold the dog. Kids are fascinated with holding small dogs, so you want one that's happy to be held, cause it will happen. When holding the pup, flip it on its back. Ideally you want the dog to be relaxed and not fight you. The easiest going dogs will almost fall asleep...I would avoid a pup that fights being put on its back. They can get used to being held, but fighting being on its back will make everything you do more difficult. Once I have determined the pup I want in the litter and have spend a little time with it, I take it away from the litter-mates...just out of sight. Then put the dog down and slowly walk away. You want the dog to follow you. A dog that focus' on you and follows are almost always easy dogs to train as well as get along with. What I am looking for when I do this is a dog that WANTS to follow and be led. This has helped me pick out some of the most spectacularly calm and easy to train dogs over and over again. They are all cute, but personality is the most important, especially for obedience training, which any dog in a busy household with kids will absolutely require.


Good luck with your search, I think every kid should grow up with at least one dog...it teaches them so much about respect and responsibility as well as how to act around other animals that they won't be able to avoid...afterall, dogs are everywhere. The earlier a child embraces a dog, the easier it will be for them to really understand that animal and other animals. Body language of a dog is easily read if you know what you're seeing.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Domestication of the dog is, IMO, man's single greatest achievement! Nothing in the world will be as devoted/dedicated as a good dog.

 

[Bigboy]

Honestly, I know you said no pitbulls but you have no idea what you are passing up by writing them off. They are the absolute PERFECT active family dog. If you were considering a nervous, prone to medical problems doberman then you are cheating yourself and your family out of one of the single best FAMILY breeds the US ever created.

Jack Russel and Patterdales I cannot stress enough are hunting dogs, not family dogs. Both are bred to have the grit to go down a fox burrow. The difference is where the Jack will try to flush the fox the Patt will try to kill it. Their prey drive and the stubborn attitude that comes with it is something that needs a hell of a lot of work, time and devotion.

 

[cold blood]

I agree some of the best dogs are indeed pitbulls. Wonderful and insanely healthy and a huge size vatiation (from 20-120lb). They do IMO require the right owner, can be extremely stubborn and difficult to train. Very bull headed in most cases. They love to test everyone and everything, and if they are allowed to get away with anything, it can be a disaster for the wrong owner quickly (as we unfortunately see all too often). Not something most parents need to deal with when there's a house full of kids already. They really need a strong owner, preferably someone with experience with stronger breeds. IMO the biggest issue with the pits is that all too often the wrong people own them. If the right people owned them across the board, they would have a much better reputation. Its a real point of irritation when it seems every first time dog owner I meet wants a pit. Not a good first dog....but still can be great dogs. I wish they were always in the right hands, they DESERVE better than their reputation suggest.

Dobermans are unbelievable dogs BTW....but you're right, as with most large breeds, there are health issues that can crop up. I lost mine to wobblers and it sucked....simply incredible animal that I have zero regrets owning/loving. A Doberman is anything but nervous...they are highly confident dog.

 

[pitbulllady]

I started to suggest an APBT, but refrained due to the OP specifically mentioning that they did not want one. HOWEVER, I do need to point out that a REAL American Pit Bull Terrier is NOT a large dog, nor is it particularly muscle-bound in appearance. The UKC breed standard calls for a female's ideal weight to range from 30-50 pounds and a male's weight to range from 35-60 pounds, which is NOT a large dog at all. Those big, block-headed, barrel-chested, massive dogs that are often associated with "pit bulls" are NOT American Pit Bull Terriers, no matter what people might call them! Calling a rocking chair a school bus won't make it so, will it? Those are "American Bully Dogs", which is a "breed-in-progress", a mixture of many breeds of Bulldog and Mastiff breeds, but when people hear "pit bull", that image of a huge dog is what crops up in their heads. I have not found APBT's to be all that hard-headed; in fact, their eagerness to obey and please is what can get them into trouble. A well-bred, real APBT is everything that you could want in a family/house dog. They are usually easy to house-train, are energetic and eager for a game or a jog, but can mellow out on the couch when that energy is not needed. They are small enough not to take up all the space on the sofa or in the car and won't cost a fortune to feed, and they are a pretty healthy breed, too. You do not have to worry about a dense undercoat that will shed all over the place or mats forming in the coat or having to make regular appointments with the groomer. Don't rule out this breed, as long as you are allowed to keep one where you live.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

Beagle-ish thingy. +Social. Gentle disposition. Minor turd generator. Minimal fuzz clouds. Only slightly bouncy. Smarts. Rated many times as the most easily trained of all dogs. Wash and blow dry very quickly and easily. -Escape artist supreme. Licks-a-lots. Shares cribs with baby. Bed romper with cover tunneling tendencies.

 

[theWB]

I have kids with similar ages, two teenagers a 5 year old and a 2 year old.
They all love our Pug. Sturdy enough to handle the abuse and gentle enough with my 2 year old who absolutely loves him.
Calm demeanor, rarely barks.

 

[Jones0911]

What about a pomeranian or Bichon Frisé?

She (my lady)really likes those

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

I have always loved Shelties. I've had two, and I've never been around a better dog. Active, loyal, friendly and just beautiful.

 

[tarantulagirl10]

Coldblood is right on the money about pugs being GREAT dogs. I love 'em!! They are brachycephalic though, so they can't stand a lot of heat or exercise. I was going to say pug, but with 4 kids, living in GA, and saying his family was active I skipped the pug. I love Boston Terriers too, but they have the same thing going on as the pug.

A Beagle wandered up here a couple years ago. He was a rack of bones. I put up signs at every stop sign and store around looking for his owner. I ran ads in the local newspapers, put the flyers up at all veterinarians around, contacted animal control a few times to let them know I had him if someone was looking, and put an ad on craigslist. Nobody ever came forward. So, I had him taken care of at the Veterinary hospital where I work. He's still here. We live out in the country and he loves to run, play in the creek, and chase squirrels, rabbits, whatever. He catches squirrels all time actually. I guess he wouldn't do well in a neighborhood situation. He is a great dog though. So sweet and loves my kids. He will play with them for hours.

 

[cold blood]

Shelties are great dogs. Their only drawback is their shedding, which can get annoying. They are also a poor choice if there are any children with allergies. I grew up with one at grandma's. I loved that dog despite the fact that he was an instant asthma attack. Really good, gentle animals that tend to be smart and easy to train.

Pomeranians, being so small, can suffer from what I refer to as "napoleon syndrome", where their small stature can cause them to "act big" and be a little attiduty. They can also be quite the yippers and at their size, may not be the best for rough-housing kids. They can be good dogs, no doubt, I just think kids will have less fun with them and be able to do less with them in the long run.

Bichon is a good dog, very much poodle like, even in appearance with their little white afro's. Smart, hypoallergenic, not shedders, pretty healthy and easy to train. I'm not a fan of their look, but that's meaningless. A friend had several growing up with a large family, the dogs were always well behaved and friendly with both all the neighbor kids as well as other neighborhood dogs.

Yeah tgirl, their short snout makes it difficult for them to dissipate heat...panting does little, although they try. The short snout does mean they can overheat easily, same for my boxer actually. Its not too tough to deal with, just provide water to play in and drink. Its not as big of an issue, it does, however, lead to a loud dog that snorts and snores like the dickens...really endearing if you ask me. And their little bugged out eyes show emotion really well (like a boxer).

Boxers BTW are one of the best dogs with children on the planet. They can be tired as heck, but as soon as they see kids, they light up. They are also athletic, playful and smart...I didn't mention them because they are a little bigger than you were looking for, but really not too much...but absolutely great dogs. I always said there are sooo many cool dogs out there I would never own the same breed twice. Then I got a boxer...forget that noise, I got another boxer and will get another and another for life, they are that special...such personality and inquisitive eyes (pug has em too) and there's nothing I can't do with her. She can run, play all day, go on long hikes, bike rides, they are great with people and other animals, but are still chill enough to take out on the boat, (I even fish tournaments with mine) and they are great in the car for long trips, too. As energetic as they are, they are also happy just chillin with the family. They are a breed that really wants to be around people and involved in everything. A busy family life is right up their alley, so to speak.

 

[Jones0911]

Shelties are great dogs. Their only drawback is their shedding, which can get annoying. They are also a poor choice if there are any children with allergies. I grew up with one at grandma's. I loved that dog despite the fact that he was an instant asthma attack. Really good, gentle animals that tend to be smart and easy to train.

Pomeranians, being so small, can suffer from what I refer to as "napoleon syndrome", where their small stature can cause them to "act big" and be a little attiduty. They can also be quite the yippers and at their size, may not be the best for rough-housing kids. They can be good dogs, no doubt, I just think kids will have less fun with them and be able to do less with them in the long run.

Bichon is a good dog, very much poodle like, even in appearance with their little white afro's. Smart, hypoallergenic, not shedders, pretty healthy and easy to train. I'm not a fan of their look, but that's meaningless. A friend had several growing up with a large family, the dogs were always well behaved and friendly with both all the neighbor kids as well as other neighborhood dogs.

Yeah tgirl, their short snout makes it difficult for them to dissipate heat...panting does little, although they try. The short snout does mean they can overheat easily, same for my boxer actually. Its not too tough to deal with, just provide water to play in and drink. Its not as big of an issue, it does, however, lead to a loud dog that snorts and snores like the dickens...really endearing if you ask me. And their little bugged out eyes show emotion really well (like a boxer).

Boxers BTW are one of the best dogs with children on the planet. They can be tired as heck, but as soon as they see kids, they light up. They are also athletic, playful and smart...I didn't mention them because they are a little bigger than you were looking for, but really not too much...but absolutely great dogs. I always said there are sooo many cool dogs out there I would never own the same breed twice. Then I got a boxer...forget that noise, I got another boxer and will get another and another for life, they are that special...such personality and inquisitive eyes (pug has em too) and there's nothing I can't do with her. She can run, play all day, go on long hikes, bike rides, they are great with people and other animals, but are still chill enough to take out on the boat, (I even fish tournaments with mine) and they are great in the car for long trips, too. As energetic as they are, they are also happy just chillin with the family. They are a breed that really wants to be around people and involved in everything. A busy family life is right up their alley, so to speak.

I looked up sheltie and the image was a toy collie...These in the same family?

 

[cold blood]

I looked up sheltie and the image was a toy collie...These in the same family?

Yup, its basically a small collie....I wouldn't go as far as to call it a toy, they are bigger than that, but still a pretty slight build.

 

[Shell]

I didn't read all of this thread, so I apologize, but as Dobe person (and a vet tech who has also been working dogs for 14 yrs), the Dobe "turn on you" thing is a complete, and total myth. That said, they are not an easy breed, especially as puppies. They are also very prone to some very serious health issues (dilated cardiomyopathy being the main killer of this breed, and every single line is affected by it at some point in the lines. Any breeder who says they have zero DCM in any of their lines is full of it, and a backyard breeder. The good breeders will screen their dogs and try to stay as far away from it as possible, but 50% of our breed dies from this horrible killer).

If you are at all considering a Dobe, do a TON of research, and find the most reputable breeder possible, who fully health test their dogs (this should be done when going to any breeder, for any purebred, do not support a backyard breeder, you are likely to wind up with a dog with either health or temperament problems or both as they aren't screening their dogs, and they aren't breeding to better their breed). They are not cheap, not healthy, and not easy, BUT very worth it if you have the time for them. I will always have Dobermans (and I grew up with them also), my current boy is incredible with my two kids (who both have autism). My current boy is almost 2, and he requires a few hours a day of off leash running, daily training/work sessions (we do obedience, lure coursing, and nosework currently). They need to work in some way, lots of exercise and lots of mental stimulation. They are quite a high maintenance breed, extremely velcro (always want to be with their people), very loyal, very loving, sometimes goofy, but can be serious when they need to be.

Edit* Shetland Sheepdogs (shelties), and Collies are not the same breed, the Sheltie is not a toy version, it is it's own breed, even though they do look similar to the Rough Collie.

 

[cold blood]

Yup, its basically a small collie....I wouldn't go as far as to call it a toy, they are bigger than that, but still a pretty slight build.

You're right shell, my "yup" could have been construed as them being in the same family, they are indeed their own breed, just share the collie's appearance.

I have always had a super easy time training my dobs (both were potty trained in less then 48 hours at 8 weeks and neither ever required a leash...I used to take mine to Miller park tailgating), but then again my lifestyle leads me to take my dogs everywhere, exercise them a ton and exposing them to as many situations as possible..and am kind of a strict owner, which the dobs actually love. I always used to tell people that they loved to be told what to do...so eager to please its simply remarkable! They do love to be given jobs and the mental stimulation aspect is important, but it really is with most intelligent dogs. When I had my last one I always referred to the dob as the worlds most perfect dog (health issues aside). The only reason I don't still have them is because of the way they are treated/viewed by strangers....crossing the street, never trusting them, being afraid to let their dogs socialize with them, etc....and then like you mentioned is all the stupid things people say about them. Like "they'll turn on you"....actually one of the most loyal breeds out there...and that loyalty is until death...and my favorite "sure they are smart, but their brains keep growing and they will get dementia and go crazy." I heard both of these stupid statements on a regular basis, another point of irritation. I did get sick of explaining the breed to the seemingly endless amount of misinformed individuals.

I will say your property and children will be safe. I used to say if someone broke in and stole something, they would have undoubtedly paid much more for it that I did.

Your boy is beautiful BTW...but then, its hard to find a dob that isn't gorgeous.

 

[Shell]

and am kind of a strict owner, which the dobs actually love.

See, and that's why you've never had an issue training them. I am the same, and have been training/working dogs for many years, I find them easy to train and shape too, BUT that is not true for the majority of owners. They are not a breed for a first time dog owner, or a soft dog owner who doesn't know how to train them. I suppose how I should have worded it, is that they are not an easy breed for the majority of pet owners.

My current boy is probably the toughest Dobe I've owned/trained, but at 2 we do all kinds of obedience trials etc etc, and he is an amazing dog. He just keeps me on my toes in the training department, which I love in a dog. I'm not a fan of "easy" dogs (although I own them too lol. I also show Labs also, and my current bitch is as easy as a dog comes).

And thank you, Bruce knows he's beautiful, and uses it to his advantage

and yeah the "brain outgrowing the skull, and they will turn on you" crap makes me want to punch things lol. If that were true, I should have been dead numerous times throughout my life lol, since I grew up with the breed (my Grandpa showed and bred, and we always owned them too).

As far as training goes, they certainly are not the most biddable of the breeds I've trained, however once you find what motivates them, and you build that bond...you will have the most amazing working partner ever.

One more thought lol. When I say they aren't easy, one good example is this. Say I'm having a chaotic day and can't work the dogs the way I usually do, Annie (my Lab) is happy to chill, and just be lazy. Bruce WILL settle, (he is trained to), and have a lazy day, but he hates it, and it's not fair to his needs. This is also when he is likely to maybe get into mischief, as this breed needs to go, and work, and think. They are insanely smart, and athletic. Females also tend to be easier as pups than males (from all my experience with the breed). They are still high energy, working dogs, but they don't tend to be quite as tough in some ways. I like tough dogs though, so the mix in my house is male Dobe, female Lab, and always will be. (and I don't mean tough as in protective, a female dobe is just capable, and willing to protect her people as males).