The rumor going around at the reptile show this past weekend is that the emperor scorpion surveys are nearly finished or are finished and that they will be placed on the CITES list which will soon greatly reduce or cease exportation of them. Prices are already reflecting that this isn't just a rumor. Does anyone know anything about this other than the word being passed around the dealer booths?
Pandinus imperator going on CITES?
- Thread starter Vfox
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2003
- Messages
- 3,611
Hello,
P.imperator has been on CITES for some time already,
I checked the website and it is still there!! http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.php (search pandinus)
P.imperator has been on CITES for some time already,
I checked the website and it is still there!! http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.php (search pandinus)
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,181
You probably mean that the countries they are found in will close exports of the species. Or that the US will close imports. That means we won't be getting any new stock from Africa.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2012
- Messages
- 712
Sudden? This is old news and was discussed last summer on this forum and others. The price increase on them since last year through most vendors and pet shops is for this very reason.
I've known about the price increase from the last year or so. And I know they've been surveying the Native population in Africa for the past while. What I'm talking about is what AzJohn mentioned. And that's the closing of exports/imports. Something that wasn't done prior, nor have I heard rumors about until this past show. That's why I'm asking about it now because this change means, if true, only captive bred emps will be available in short order.
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2012
- Messages
- 712
Again, this is not new news, there have been previous discussions on what's been happening and its implications on the hobby:
May 3, 2013:
http://www.fws.gov/le/publicbulletin/05-03-2013-Public-Bulletin-on-Trade-Suspensions.pdf
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2005
- Messages
- 8,982
I remember the closing of the Ghana export rumor about a couple of years ago posted here, strange that I can't find it here with a search. I posted it and can't even find it searching under my username. I heard if from an importer that happened to be in a store I was in. I don't remember time-lines very well. He said they were going to shut the exporting of emps out of Ghana in about 2 years(this was about 3 years ago(?)). Somebody there asked, "..only imperators?" He said, "No, everything." I'm paraphrasing here but he said 'they' had already decided to do it but that it would take two years to finalize it. What he was saying was that they go through the motions of doing surveys but that they had already made up their minds to shut it down. A rumor, but he seemed like he was being honest, no reason to lie to me about it, I don't know him very well. And nothing it final until it is, things can change so only time will tell.
I've seen all that you've linked Vespers, I know what you're showing me isn't new. But my point is NOBODY was saying anything during the last few shows. Then suddenly everyone was talking about a sudden ban and the prices nearly doubled again, since literally 3 months ago. This is a new rumor and I'm asking about its validity, not previously available information. I'm looking for a reason why suddenly, within the past 3 months this would be going around the vendor tables? With people so keen on the hobby and aware of their supply chains, why would this suddenly pop up if it was because of the implementations from last May?
ShredderEmp
Arachnoprince
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2012
- Messages
- 1,769
Maybe they were just recently informed of it?
It's possible, but I can't really see multiple vendors that deal in invertebrates and reptiles just suddenly hearing news from last year. I mean they were selling juvenile emps for $40 because of this rumor. That's over twice what they were asking just a few months ago. Just trying to clarify if anyone knows any further information about it. I mean we have enough breeding stock in the US to breed them for the hobby but I hate to see their prices jump so much. Just curious. Any dealers out there hear anything similar to this very recently?
ShredderEmp
Arachnoprince
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2012
- Messages
- 1,769
40 bucks is way too much for even an adult female Pandinus imperator. I wouldn't buy one above 20. They aren't that rare. As long as captive breeding still continues and the hobby grows, prices will hopefully return to reasonable prices.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2005
- Messages
- 8,982
Sorry to give you only another possibility, but maybe they are just now starting to enforce these slightly new regulations more, it often happens like that esp. when it comes to environmental issues. So people may now be feeling it more and so are talking about it more.
Out of all the options it seems like that may be the most possible. I can't find any new regulation changes or anything really about a newly added restriction. It just struck me as weird that it was so suddenly a big deal at the show.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2008
- Messages
- 388
probably an agreement between all the vendors to "hold the line" at a certain price to increase profits using CITES to convince customers they had a valid reason for overcharging. there are, and always will be, more than enough emps in the states to keep the price low if all imports are stopped, i mean it's the most common scorpion in the trade and prolific breeders.
how wrong you are. I agree absolutely with the best idea some dealers use such arguments to get better prices.
but if anywhere else then in afrika "enough" emperors would be such discussion about cites wouldn't exist because everyone would probably go with a emperor.
The price always depends on the demand. If absolutely no new emperors would come to the usa you would wonder how the hobby would change. Emperors probably would die almost out in us hobby in the next 10-15 years if not even faster. The price would probably rise so high that in first place the people try to get big breeding colonies to profit of the price. But at a certain point the emperor gets "boring" and to expensive for a beginnerpet. Other scorpions will grow into the status of the most common scorpion to start with. And this would be the death sentence to that species in the hobby.
btw since when emperors are prolific breeders? Just because most of them breed without any problems? A prolific breeder in my point of view is a scorpion which give birth and within a year the brood will give themselves birth. Emperors just take too long to give birth and grow. Broodsize is in combination to the gestation and growrate a fact that makes them more unprolific.
so is a emperor 40$ worth? In my opinion absolutely. Most of scorpions are traded way to cheap for the fact that you trade living animals.
Should you buy a emperor for 40$? In my opinion absolutely yes as long as you know for sure its a cb. As long as nobody honorates captive breeding and raising of this species the us hobby will be dependent of imports.
but as long as many us hobbyists and importers don't care much about cites regulations its nothing any of you us hobbyists have to worry about :-D