Mystery pokie matured VERY small

[Niffarious]

I was unable to positively ID this pokie, so he will not be bred regardless. He was sold as a pederseni but developed yellow on his legs.
I was expecting him to molt, but NOT mature.
This year is my first go with pokies. Is this kind of thing normal? Is there a cause?

 

[Poec54]

I've seen two MM pederseni, and both have been very small, not much over 4".

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

No real reason aside from genetics. Why are some people short and some people tall?

 

[Niffarious]

Some people are short, some are tall - but few are genetically a dwarf, or stunted because something wasn't right environmentally.

If it's normal for males to mature this small though (barely 4") then that is then answer I am looking for.

 

[Philth]

Can you pull out the shed skin and gently unfold it and get good pics of the ventral leg markings?

Later, Tom

 

[Niffarious]

Here you go, Tom

With Flash




Without

 

[Niffarious]

If you need better light, or a better view of the legs I should be able to soak it so nothing breaks, and have time for a picture in good sunlight tomorrow.

 

[Philth]

So far great pics. It is certainty not a P. pederseni. Besides the color, P.pederseni has a notable femoral fringe. It looks very P.regalis or P. striata to me, but some pics of the the lower 4 legs will help.

Later, Tom

 

[Poec54]

So far great pics. It is certainty not a P. pederseni. Besides the color, P.pederseni has a notable femoral fringe. It looks very P.regalis or P. striata to me, but some pics of the the lower 4 legs will help.

+1. The way I confirm pederseni is by the femur of leg 4; ventrally it's the only Poec that has a black stripe there (running length-wise) instead of a band.

 

[friendttyy]

The genetics has led to the size of maturity and no tarantula has a DEFINITE size of maturity.

 

[captmarga]

Don't all regalis have the tan belly band? I don't see it in the photo of the molted T. I don't have a pederseni to compare to, but just as a note, I have seen a very small male pairing with a nearly 9" female, and was told that's the norm...

Marga

 

[Philth]

Don't all regalis have the tan belly band? I don't see it in the photo of the molted T.
Marga

Good point, I'd still like to see the rest of the molt but I strongly suspect its a P. striata.

Later, Tom

 

[Niffarious]

Hi guys, when I went to take pictures I was distracted by a phone call and the molt was destroyed in an Act of Dog (my whippet ate it). However I believe I have an older one, and if not i will take pictures of the specimen itself when I am home from work.

And no, it has no band on the abdomen.

 

[Tarac]

Hybrid? Not unusual for hybrids to be especially small in other invertebrates. I've seen Samia sp. hybrids recently that were a mere 1.5" compared to the 5-6" parents (or larger even). Citheronia too. Also in some butterflies and beetles. Unclear morphology and diminutive size are suspicious to say the least and since so many Pokies are very similar it could have been an uninformed mistaken pairing of something like regalis and striata, for example. Yes there are obvious differences if you know the two but if you are just a casual buyer that bred I could easily imagine how it might have happened... both bought under same bad common name, dorsally similar, oops... you know.

 

[Balvala]

Due to a lack of any bands on the pedipalps as would be evident in P. Striata, the fact that we know it's developed yellow under the anterior legs and can role out P. Regalis for obvious reasons, P. Rufilata's bands would be much larger (alongside possibly thicker scopulae) and considering the coloration of the setae that I'm viewing, I think I'm going to lean my guess toward:

Mature Male Poecilotheria Ornata

From viewing the posterior legs the best that I can in the photo of the original post, though the distortion makes it a little difficult to tell, the bands seem very consistent with the suggestion I've made above as well.

 

[Poec54]

Due to a lack of any bands on the pedipalps as would be evident in P. Striata, the fact that we know it's developed yellow under the anterior legs and can role out P. Regalis for obvious reasons, P. Rufilata's bands would be much larger (alongside possibly thicker scopulae) and considering the coloration of the setae that I'm viewing, I think I'm going to lean my guess toward:

Mature Male Poecilotheria Ornata.

Scratch ornata, they have much more vivid orange/red under the palps and on the sides. I just looked at one of my subadult male ornatas (his two brothers just have matured) and while they're washed out dorsally, the ventral colors are still quite vivid. Ornatas are pretty distinct, the only one you could possibly confuse them with at all is rufilata. Besides, ornata's such a big species I can't see them maturing so small unless something REALLY went haywire. My MM ornatas are over 7" and very leggy.

 

[BrettG]

Another vote for striata.

 

[Balvala]

Scratch ornata, they have much more vivid orange/red under the palps and on the sides. I just looked at one of my subadult male ornatas (his two brothers just have matured) and while they're washed out dorsally, the ventral colors are still quite vivid. Ornatas are pretty distinct, the only one you could possibly confuse them with at all is rufilata. Besides, ornata's such a big species I can't see them maturing so small unless something REALLY went haywire. My MM ornatas are over 7" and very leggy.

Mhm, you're right. I was deducing as best I could through the photos provided here and only having a few charts on my side, as well as photos lacking enough detail apparently. After I began looking at the posterior leg bands and weighing them against the photos I have (as well as second guessing due to the fact that I knew P. Ornata were quite large even as males,) I started to think P. Striata might have been the wiser choice after having already posted. I normally don't attempt to contribute with species I lack experience with initially unless I've done enough research and lurking to know better, so I'll just maintain that mindset on a more consistent basis from now on.

Thank you for informing me of that mistake, however.

 

[Niffarious]

Hi guys -

I hope these pictures will help.

His second to last molt:



I'm not sure how much these will help, as he would absolutely not sit still in light strong enough to get a decent picture.