My first Poecilotheria... should be metallica? QUESTIONS!

[SpookySpooder]

Gotcha!

No, I'm not gonna go out and buy a Poecilotheria metallica as my first pokie. I don't have any Pokies at all.

I've done a lot of reading on the genus and species, not enough to get one myself, but it has sparked a few questions for me.

I've read a lot of the bite reports here. No need to link me. I've also seen RobC's video when he got tagged by his Pokie.

I am not interesting in handling most if not all of the Tarantula species. I've let docile T's such as Avics, Versicolors, and GBBs crawl up and around when I'm doing maintenance but I do not take them out or pinch grab them at all. I do not take cloutworthy selfies with giant spiders on my face nor do I have any desire to.

I've read a lot of the Pokie threads, some amusing, some horrific. Some successful, some not. The wide variance of experiences in beginners who make a P. metallica their very first T intrigues me and leads me to wonder if the pitchfork and torches group is overexagerrating the drawbacks of this genus.

I have several Psalmopoeus irminia, which many have said is a good prerequisite to the Poecilotheria genus but due to lack of experience with Pokies I don't see the similarities besides the lightning fast speed and potent venom. Because they always just bolt for their bark hide or dirt curtain, my P. Irminia do not really strike the terror in me as reading about getting bit by a Pokies does.

So my questions are as follows for all the people who have kept Poecilotheria, old or new. If you haven't kept them at all then IDK why you would answer these questions.

- What was your first Pokie species?
- When you got it, was it a sling, juvie, subadult or adult?
- Was this T the first you kept or was this the 100th? Did you keep any defensive or arboreal T's before?
- How much research did you put into the genus and species and husbandry requirements before you obtained one?
- How did it go? Did it ever escape? Were you ever bit?
- What critical mistakes did you make during your time keeping the Pokie?
- What would you have done differently? What did you learn from your mistakes?

I know a lot of these questions have already been answered in the sense that piece by piece this information has been posted and can be gleaned together on this forum.

Trust me, I have done that. I just want to hear it from the people who didn't take the time to post their experiences in a thread of their own.

The most significant thing I would like to discover is this:

What made you decide you wanted a Poecilotheria? What was the defining moment that you thought "I'm ready to keep this super fast and venomous Tarantula now"? What was the thought that made you get a Poecilotheria metallica or a Poecilotheria ornata instead of something like another Caribeana versicolor or laeta?

Thanks!

 

[Tarantuland]

Most pokies have similar temperament, I have found rufilata and ornata to be a little more aggro and reclusive. Ive also found P metallica slings to be more fragile finicky. Regalis are usually the cheapest and most common, but I got into pokies because I was fascinated with the way they look. First one I got was a juvie p met because someone online was trying to rehome theirs. I already had obt and a few other old worlds so decided to take the plunge. Never had an issue but just be careful. They’re a pretty docile genus in my experience but I’m not hands on

Irminia don’t have venom as potent but are way meaner and more likely to strike in my experience

 

[0311usmc]

I started with a P.met, always liked the blue coloration. To be honest far over rated out of the pokies. Then I got 2 P.ornatas and my life changed. Blew the Metallica out of the water. Better coloration in my opinion and much bigger/legging.
I literally could give a crap less about venom content as I don't hold ever and do very few rehouses as after 2" I put inside permanent enclosures. They eat like Joey chestnut always ready to eat large roaches. Some of the best feeding response out of all my tarantulas.

 

[viper69]

I’ve kept rufilata, regalis and met all from slings.

I disagree very much that irminia are the first species to get before a Poki.

I kept a few Ceratogyrus species BEFORE getting an arboreal OW, and a much faster terrestrial OW before Poki as well.

Mets are the smallest and most chaotic, least predictable, of the genera generally speaking. So my recommendation is get a regalis.

Also of the 3, my mets were the worst eaters.

My rufi was the best eater.
Temps were the same for all species - 72-75F

I’ve never had any T escape.

 

[lindale450]

ornata and rufilata are probably my favourite, the metallica is a bit more restless than the other species I have but if you’re rehousing P irminia with no sweat you will be just fine with any poecilotheria in my opinion

I’ve kept rufilata, regalis and met all from slings.

I disagree very much that irminia are the first species to get before a Poki.

I kept a few Ceratogyrus species BEFORE getting an arboreal OW, and a much faster terrestrial OW before Poki as well.

Mets are the smallest and most chaotic, least predictable, of the genera generally speaking. So my recommendation is get a regalis.

Also of the 3, my mets were the worst eaters.

My rufi was the best eater.
Temps were the same for all species - 72-75F

I’ve never had any T escape.

what about keeping Psalmopoeus before a poecilotheria do you disagree with?

 

[mack1855]

The only two species of Poecilotheria that i havent kept are regalis/tigrinawesseli.

Never had any escapes,or threat displays that i remember.

As others have said,P.metallica are not,IMO,the best pokie to start with.Many of the posts on social media are color saturated,plus seeing one out and showing that purple is often difficult to achieve
unless your willing to get it out in the open and under perfect lightning conditions.

IME,metallica slings can be problematic,both in regards to feeding and general husbandry.Also,i think they are the most skittish and prone to bolt.

I for one am skeptical of the "ladder system"....JMO.You may get a threat display from Psalmopoeus before a similar display from a pokie.Among other NW,s that would love to tear your face off..

That my AF P.miranda from 2018.totally calm and steady.Produced a very nice sac for me the year before this pic.

 

[SpookySpooder]

Beautiful specimens usmc & mack!

I'm not getting into the genus anytime soon, just curious on the actual difficulty of them as I see so much on both ends of the spectrum. I was eyeing rufalis or ornata as potentially my introduction to the genus.

I've heard lots of arguments about the inconsistency of the ladder system and such have avoided it. I found different ladders with a variety of species in different tiers. Nothing was consistent, nothing was rooted in fact. All anecdotal suggestions.

Frankly,

Spoiler

"I don't really agree with the concept of 'beginner' (species)"

I have 1 P. irminia that behaves as "normal" in the sense that is runs around the enclosure at lightning speed whenever disturbed, throws threat postures at nothing, and strikes at everything that comes within range. And even he isn't that scary. I never let him out or handle him anyway.

The other 2 I have just retreat to their hide/dirt curtain and wait for food. I've seen videos of both behaviors displayed by the Pokies, so I'm assuming it's a mixed bag based on the wide range of experiences that have been documented by Poecilotheria keepers.

Most of my collection are arboreal and fossorial, with a few terrestrial splashed in. It's a mix of OW and NW, so I have some experience with angry and fast T's. I practice husbandry techniques that I've learned over time from more experienced members and popular hobbyists such as Tom Moran and DavesBeasties, so I have never actually experienced any of the "critical mistakes" that allow a T to fall to death, escape, or bite.

(Fingers crossed I never do)

Anyway, I've been considering rufalis or ornata as an introduction to the genus but I am waiting for the right moment--when my experience and knowledge have reached a point where I do not need to ask for help--to take the plunge.

I was eyeing rufalis or ornata but I'll take a look at regalis as well. What are your general suggestions for a first time Pokie?

I have several Baboon species, a couple earth tigers, as well as those irminia. They're fast but I can deal with them. Moving slowly and calmly and reading their posture has helped me greatly in not having a single incident.

Anyway, I appreciate all the advice. I'm gonna just keep adding to my arboreals and fossorials but I'm playing with this thought in the back of my mind.

 

[viper69]

ornata and rufilata are probably my favourite, the metallica is a bit more restless than the other species I have but if you’re rehousing P irminia with no sweat you will be just fine with any poecilotheria in my opinion



what about keeping Psalmopoeus before a poecilotheria do you disagree with?

See my original post

 

[Tarantuland]

The only two species of Poecilotheria that i havent kept are regalis/tigrinawesseli.

Never had any escapes,or threat displays that i remember.

As others have said,P.metallica are not,IMO,the best pokie to start with.Many of the posts on social media are color saturated,plus seeing one out and showing that purple is often difficult to achieve
unless your willing to get it out in the open and under perfect lightning conditions.

IME,metallica slings can be problematic,both in regards to feeding and general husbandry.Also,i think they are the most skittish and prone to bolt.

I for one am skeptical of the "ladder system"....JMO.You may get a threat display from Psalmopoeus before a similar display from a pokie.Among other NW,s that would love to tear your face off.. View attachment 449343

That my AF P.miranda from 2018.totally calm and steady.Produced a very nice sac for me the year before this pic.

Dang how did you get srilankensis and rajaei?

 

[SpookySpooder]

See my original post

There is not a clear statement as to why you do not think it is a good prerequisite. I can glean from the rest of the posts why, but you never directly stated your reason... or maybe it was just lost on us

 

[mack1855]

Dang how did you get srilankensis and rajaei?

Well…,been in the hobby a long time.The restrictions were not in place until 2018.Sri Lankan endemics were readily avalabile before then( some species were not well known),but still being offered across state lines.
Never saw a P.rajaei offered,and I think it was never a legitimate species.We can check World Spider Catalog .Think P.bara reclassified as P.subfusca.
To the best of my limited knowledge.

Went back and checked.P.rajaei is still listed as legit by WSC.But,again never saw any listed as far back as 2014,at least as far as i remember.

 

[Tarantuland]

Well…,been in the hobby a long time.The restrictions were not in place until 2018.Sri Lankan endemics were readily avalabile before then( some species were not well known),but still being offered across state lines.
Never saw a P.rajaei offered,and I think it was never a legitimate species.We can check World Spider Catalog .Think P.bara reclassified as P.subfusca.
To the best of my limited knowledge.

Went back and checked.P.rajaei is still listed as legit by WSC.But,again never saw any listed as far back as 2014,at least as far as i remember.

I got every Poecilotheria sp in the hobby in my current collection. P. bara is generally considered subfusca lowland from what I gather , I believe that revision split the two subfusca. But you didn’t say every one in the hobby you just said every Poecilotheria besides regalis/tigrinawesseli. I figured that was what you meant tho.

P srilankensis wasn’t described until A few years ago, after the ESA regulations

 

[SpookySpooder]

Literally every single hobby species? That's impressive considering how regulated the genus is now.

 

[Tarantuland]

Literally every single hobby species? That's impressive considering how regulated the genus is now.

Yup. I live in an area with a lot of breeders nearby. I’m blessed but I put forth a lot of effort to make it happen

 

[Caemoxie]

- What was your first Pokie species?
- When you got it, was it a sling, juvie, subadult or adult?
- Was this T the first you kept or was this the 100th? Did you keep any defensive or arboreal T's before?
- How much research did you put into the genus and species and husbandry requirements before you obtained one?
- How did it go? Did it ever escape? Were you ever bit?
- What critical mistakes did you make during your time keeping the Pokie?
- What would you have done differently? What did you learn from your mistakes?

I may not be the best person to answer these questions, as I only recently got my first Pokie myself. But here's my 2 cents.
- P. metallica (part of a mystery box when I told my dealer I was interested in trying the genus)
- Sling, she just completed her first molt in my care.
- 1 or 100th species or spider? XD 20 or 30 species in, maybe? And yes, I kept Pterinochilus, Psalmopoeus, H. maculata, Avicularia, and probably others before the Pokie.
- A fair bit, but honestly, less than you seem to have done. I am becoming increasingly less reliant on the internet for T info, as much is contradictory and overblown. The only stats I research for any more are natural range (OW or NW, tropical or arid) and lifestyle (arboreal, fossorial, terrestrial), everything else I take with a serious grain of salt. If I know those basics, then I know where to start with my husbandry and the T will generally 'tell' me the rest as we go.
- So far, so good. No escapes, no bites. She's flightier than any other T I've had thus far, but like most Ts, now that she's settled in and has built a web tunnel, that's where she runs to if she gets startled. Nothing crazy like trying to run out of her enclosure or anything.
- None so far, and fingers crossed it stays that way!
- My only 'regret' so far is that her enclosure is a bit large for her (tarantula cribs arboreal medium iirc), but I see her plenty and she seems comfortable, so it's fine.

What made you decide you wanted a Poecilotheria? What was the defining moment that you thought "I'm ready to keep this super fast and venomous Tarantula now"? What was the thought that made you get a Poecilotheria metallica or a Poecilotheria ornata instead of something like another Caribeana versicolor or laeta?

- They're beautiful Ts!
- Honestly? Because the 'the pitchfork and torches groups' are usually overselling the drawbacks. I have kept many OBTs and none have lived up to their reputation. I avoided Avicularia for a long time because of their supposed fragility, but after rescuing one from Petco realized they weren't any worse than the other arboreals I keep. I was avoiding Pokies because of the sheer reputation and Big Deal that the community often seems to make about the experience needed to keep them, so I decided it was finally time to test whether the rumors are true and because I probably count as pretty experienced at this point XD

I agree that the ladder system is a little asinine. Spiders are individuals and temperament varies so much between them that labeling any species with an experience tag is a little difficult for me to get behind. For example, I just got an absolute demon of a juvenile GBB. Bold as brass, kicks hair like a whirlwind, and bit the brush the second I nudged her out of her shipping vile. I started with OBTs and I treat every spider with the same level of respect and caution that I do with them. I feel that this has served me very well and I am grateful for that starting point. If the ladder system makes some folks more comfortable, fair enough, but realistically, you take your chances with every T.

That said... I recently started streaming my feedings and one of the first T care questions I got was whether or not they like to eat fruits and veggies, and I'm pretty sure that person is keeping Ts. So, yeah, I feel like there's something to be said for the portents of doom and the ladder system.

 

[SpookySpooder]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with me, everyone. You've given me a clearer insight into the difficulty of keeping members of this genus.

I've kept a plethora of animals my entire life. Some not very dangerous but much more demanding, (Caridina cantonensis) and some much more dangerous and less demanding. (Morelia viridis)

I have mastered the planted aquarium in the sense that I can perfectly balance the ecosystem with both good husbandry practices and basic chemistry, all while keeping notoriously fragile Taiwan Bees thriving.

I also dabble in hydroponics and greenhouse production of fruits and veggies not commercially sold in the US.

Most of the flora and fauna I'm experienced with have more exacting husbandry requirements than what I've observed in T keeping, so I haven't had any trouble.

My entry into this hobby was very smooth and easy. So easy that I had doubts I was doing things correctly for a while. Being able to dig back into ~20 years worth of refined information and advice has paved the path for my success. I have come this far on the shoulders of everybody who learned the hard way before me, so expect me to lean heavily on the more experienced keepers to further my learning journey.

And yes, I do research before I ask questions.
I don't follow care sheets, but rather use the information provided to check things such as the average humidity/rainfall over the last few years in the specific zone they come from. Or the weather patterns that are common in that part of the world. Or what researchers have observed and reported on these species in the wild.

A lot of the information out there posted by social media groups or businesses in this hobby is contradictory, or just plain inaccurate from what I have seen. Sometimes it is hard to find a single comment with the answer you're looking for amongst the sea of old threads, but a resource like AB has been invaluable to me in correcting any inconsistencies I come across.

I might get a Poecilotheria next year or something. Still not sure if I even wanna dip into the genus anyhow... IDK, maybe not, right now I'm focusing on some other projects. (Eryx colubrinus morphs)

Thanks again!

 

[spideyspinneret78]

I would recommend either P. miranda or P. regalis. Metallicas tend to be more skittish and more likely to bolt from my experience. They're also one of the smaller pokies and one of the slowest growing.

 

[JimM]

I've kept most pokie species over the years with few exceptions...raised some from tiny slings, some from juveniles. (metallica being one of the exceptions) I've never found them to be problematic or temperamental with regard to husbandry etc.
Pucker factor when opening an enclosure and proper precautions as a "just in case" measures were really the primary differences between them and other species. If I needed to do work on an enclosure, I took it out on the lawn. They're not as fast out
in the open as when racing behind a book case or stack of boxes in a crowded room. That's a scenario that I never wanted to chance.

I never found metallica to be the "IT" species, which is one reason why I never bothered. I much prefer the high contrast, earth tone markings of other species.

 

[Kada]

Gotcha!

No, I'm not gonna go out and buy a Poecilotheria metallica as my first pokie. I don't have any Pokies at all.

I've done a lot of reading on the genus and species, not enough to get one myself, but it has sparked a few questions for me.

I've read a lot of the bite reports here. No need to link me. I've also seen RobC's video when he got tagged by his Pokie.

I am not interesting in handling most if not all of the Tarantula species. I've let docile T's such as Avics, Versicolors, and GBBs crawl up and around when I'm doing maintenance but I do not take them out or pinch grab them at all. I do not take cloutworthy selfies with giant spiders on my face nor do I have any desire to.

I've read a lot of the Pokie threads, some amusing, some horrific. Some successful, some not. The wide variance of experiences in beginners who make a P. metallica their very first T intrigues me and leads me to wonder if the pitchfork and torches group is overexagerrating the drawbacks of this genus.

I have several Psalmopoeus irminia, which many have said is a good prerequisite to the Poecilotheria genus but due to lack of experience with Pokies I don't see the similarities besides the lightning fast speed and potent venom. Because they always just bolt for their bark hide or dirt curtain, my P. Irminia do not really strike the terror in me as reading about getting bit by a Pokies does.

So my questions are as follows for all the people who have kept Poecilotheria, old or new. If you haven't kept them at all then IDK why you would answer these questions.

- What was your first Pokie species?
- When you got it, was it a sling, juvie, subadult or adult?
- Was this T the first you kept or was this the 100th? Did you keep any defensive or arboreal T's before?
- How much research did you put into the genus and species and husbandry requirements before you obtained one?
- How did it go? Did it ever escape? Were you ever bit?
- What critical mistakes did you make during your time keeping the Pokie?
- What would you have done differently? What did you learn from your mistakes?

I know a lot of these questions have already been answered in the sense that piece by piece this information has been posted and can be gleaned together on this forum.

Trust me, I have done that. I just want to hear it from the people who didn't take the time to post their experiences in a thread of their own.

The most significant thing I would like to discover is this:

What made you decide you wanted a Poecilotheria? What was the defining moment that you thought "I'm ready to keep this super fast and venomous Tarantula now"? What was the thought that made you get a Poecilotheria metallica or a Poecilotheria ornata instead of something like another Caribeana versicolor or laeta?

Thanks!

my 2 cents. I think if a person is a relatively mature individual with calm nerves and basic common sense and critical thinking and also doesnt tend to rush into things and can take more precautions than are suggested by strangers, any T should be fine. Quite honestly, I find all my baboons, pokies etc slower than the wild huntsman species local here. on that note, it was good practice field "herping" before owning. my.personal experience was more dealing with far more venomous species (vipers, funnelwebs, widows and such) which gave me huge respect on safety. coupled with practicing manuevering various local spiders, outdoors, for photography. I would put money down on the huntsman's here vs any T species on speed alone haha. Tarantuals dont teleport, they just run fast. watch a huntsman literally jump faster than the eye and run.after haha. The important part for me was to photograph, which allowed a person to respect an animal (ie. not capturing it) but learning how to coax them into a spot.

I truly dont find pokies anything special other than gorgeous! they are actually quite hardy spiders and are very suitable for captivity. the key point being people need to be able to think and prepare. I have yet to see a need to catch an escaped pokie, but all the tools needed are on hand, if it were to happen. really, they are a common sense species. captive care seems pretty easy and going from sling enclosure to adult is easy as pie given the normal feeding response and activity levels. one of the things I really love about them outside their looks.

I am new to the metalica species, but so far their light sensitivity has made them even easier to deal with to be fair. that is to say, more predictable. granted I only have a few for a very short time, from slings, but so far I find them quite manageable, just need to be calm, slow and the usual. they eat very well, setup camp easily, move easily in mostly predictable ways. probably the issues people have are based in either fear or lack of proper management. people that think first and make a pan shouldnt have many issues with pokies.

I will agree, they are faster than leopard geckos and crab spiders. but they arent anything special compared to what's possible in ones back yard But I come from the angle of any animal should have the same level of .research and care given as any "hot" species. a bearded dragon should be as respected on the same level as a viper or monkey in my opinion.

for referrence I have kept regalia, ornata, striata and more recently metalica. I mostly keep "baboons". also loads of ther things like boids, chameleons, geckos etc. field herp all over for a couple.decades. never an.issue on getting bit etc. by it's a lot to do with knowing when to back off and leave them be. rehousing, cleaning etc can all be done at another time if someone is going cooky be it the specimen or the human haha.if your nerves arent in it, walk away and come back to it. rarely is anything in tarantula keeping immediately necessary

just my thoughts. but I find them easy. I think the humans' maturity level is more important than the species of tarantula in terms of "suitability". That said, I probably would not recommend them to 10 year olds that are mature for their age.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

I've kept metallica, regalis, miranda, ornata, and vittata. I think P. metallica is a decent choice for someone new to pokies. Each specimen is different. My female is actually rather bold and likes to sit and wait for prey on her cork bark, fully visible. She is also very fast and skittish when disturbed, but I wouldn't call her defensive. They also stay smaller and grow more slowly than other species in the genus. As for care, they're straightforward in terms of husbandry. They tend to be great eaters and are quite hardy. It's a MUST to give them lots of hiding places that they can immediately retreat to when disturbed. I've never had a pokie escape, nor have I been tagged. Always get a visual on your spider before doing maintenance. As long as you don't handle, use common sense safety precautions, and have a healthy respect for these animals, you'll probably be fine. I wouldn't recommend them to a total beginner, but you have experience with Psalmopoeus already. If you plan on getting more pokies in the future, I'd personally avoid getting P. ornata until you're really experienced and confident. They tend to be more 'spicy' and defensive.