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Could it be possible to have a versicolor and my A. Avic together or is that a death match?
mixing Avics.
- Thread starter Tapahtyn
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my opinion is concern not for the 'death match' but the possibility a mis-sexed male would mature and mate. Avic genus is already messed up enough as it is, an identity crisis many know about but fewer truly understand. I think when it does get straightened out several types will be reclassified to A. avic. Still until that happens I would hope that as responsible collectors, we would do all we can to insure that hybrids are not created and possibly allowed into the market any worse than has already happened. While I was breeding corn snakes it sometimes to me several years of breeding to try to discover the true genetics of some of them before I got neonates I actually felt comfortable selling on the open market and being able to tell my buyers with a degree of certainty what an individual was 'het' for.
Rev
Rev
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thank you, I will definately keep them seperated unless I know for SURE the A avic is a female, and even then if they do mate, she will go back to her separate cage
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Did you not read the post directly above yours explaining that the Avicularia genus is ALREADY messed up and the world does not need people making hybrids on purpose to mess things up further?
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well,
there are only two -main- points to make here:
1. it would more than likely be a deathmatch AKA one getting eaten, killed.
2. if one is a male, and the other is female, then we certainly don't need them breeding. the avic genus is a mess. bigggg mess right now.
i've noticed that whenever something like this comes up, people are really quick to jump the gun and start going on and on about interbreeding between different species. yes, hybrids & interbreeding is bad. i'm not saying anyone has jumped the gun on this thread, but i feel like it could happen easily.
we concluded that hybridization is bad in the first 13,428 threads on that subject
. yes it's a big deal, especially in avics, but c'mon... can't we just post a link to the other threads that are already out there on that subject?threads: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/search.php?searchid=1443029
-dan-
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While I have a large tank heavily planted with 3 female A.avicularia in it for well over a year with no problems, mixing different species could raise concern.
Let's take tolerance. Avicularia are not generally communal in the sense that we use the term. They tolerate each other. My 3 females have their own web structures, and their territory overlaps in only small areas (such as where my feeding bugs congrigate to munch on the grated carrots I supply them). If they come across each other (which is suprisingly rare) you can see intricate body movements and signals they send each other, usually ending up with a smaller female turning around, or both abandoning their quest. They do not share webs, they do not share food, they do not interact in a constructive manner. If you want a tarantula that does so get Holothele incei. I personally have 7 adult females 2 adult males, and hundreds of offspring (from 3 seperate mothers) living together peacefully in a 40 gallon tank. They share food, utilize each other's webs and interact positively (such as mature males not being chased out of a female's web even though she has rejected him and no breeding is occuring).
Now what would happen when you introduce two different species in a confined space? Most Avics are extremely similar, but have evolved slight nuances, changes in coloration and/or size, or relative to this case, differences in behavior. These adaptations evolved to fit a certain ecological niche. Naturally, many of these species are seperated by geological barriers such as rivers, mountain ranges, open plains, etc. But If that specific niche is already occupied with another species six things can potentially happen (this is as basic as I can put it, and I warn that I am over gerneralizing):
1. Extinction of original species.
2. Extinction of invasive species.
3. Original species due to increased competition migrates to another unoccupied/occupied area that matches its original ecological niche. If occupied, point 1. or 2. can occure.
4. Original species migrates to another unoccupied/occupied area that does not match its original ecological niche. This is usually causes or is influenced by an evolutionary response to interspecific relations which implimented change in behavior and/or the animal develops new behavior or adaptations to survive. Once again 1 or 2 can occure if niche is occupied.
5. The ecological niche has not reached its carrying capacity for that specific kind of predator. Prey items and territory exist in such abundance that 2 or more similar species can interact in such a manner that neither benefits or harms them. This fragile balance can be upset easily by introduction of a new predator, an invasive species, lack of food, drought, weather changes, etc. And then 1-4 can occure.
6. Much like point 5 the similar species have conditions that aid coexisting, but the coexisting leads to hybridization. Similar species, if behavior, anatomy, and genetics allow can reproduce. This can lead to a new species over many, many generations, or the destruction of the two original genetic lines; negative mutations and flaws slowly decreasing the fitness of the species.
In your case, two Avic species have slightly different behavior. You are throwing them in an enclosed space with little area to interact or choose not to interact. Your synthetic ecological niche may not be able to support them for any length of time. If it allows for proper behavoir and in turn tolerance, hybridization can occure. But also, to put it nicely, your synthetic niche can also warp behavior and force hybridization, or unneaded aggression. An experiment yes, but not needed. We do not need another Avic hybrid. Let nature do that.
Let's take tolerance. Avicularia are not generally communal in the sense that we use the term. They tolerate each other. My 3 females have their own web structures, and their territory overlaps in only small areas (such as where my feeding bugs congrigate to munch on the grated carrots I supply them). If they come across each other (which is suprisingly rare) you can see intricate body movements and signals they send each other, usually ending up with a smaller female turning around, or both abandoning their quest. They do not share webs, they do not share food, they do not interact in a constructive manner. If you want a tarantula that does so get Holothele incei. I personally have 7 adult females 2 adult males, and hundreds of offspring (from 3 seperate mothers) living together peacefully in a 40 gallon tank. They share food, utilize each other's webs and interact positively (such as mature males not being chased out of a female's web even though she has rejected him and no breeding is occuring).
Now what would happen when you introduce two different species in a confined space? Most Avics are extremely similar, but have evolved slight nuances, changes in coloration and/or size, or relative to this case, differences in behavior. These adaptations evolved to fit a certain ecological niche. Naturally, many of these species are seperated by geological barriers such as rivers, mountain ranges, open plains, etc. But If that specific niche is already occupied with another species six things can potentially happen (this is as basic as I can put it, and I warn that I am over gerneralizing):
1. Extinction of original species.
2. Extinction of invasive species.
3. Original species due to increased competition migrates to another unoccupied/occupied area that matches its original ecological niche. If occupied, point 1. or 2. can occure.
4. Original species migrates to another unoccupied/occupied area that does not match its original ecological niche. This is usually causes or is influenced by an evolutionary response to interspecific relations which implimented change in behavior and/or the animal develops new behavior or adaptations to survive. Once again 1 or 2 can occure if niche is occupied.
5. The ecological niche has not reached its carrying capacity for that specific kind of predator. Prey items and territory exist in such abundance that 2 or more similar species can interact in such a manner that neither benefits or harms them. This fragile balance can be upset easily by introduction of a new predator, an invasive species, lack of food, drought, weather changes, etc. And then 1-4 can occure.
6. Much like point 5 the similar species have conditions that aid coexisting, but the coexisting leads to hybridization. Similar species, if behavior, anatomy, and genetics allow can reproduce. This can lead to a new species over many, many generations, or the destruction of the two original genetic lines; negative mutations and flaws slowly decreasing the fitness of the species.
In your case, two Avic species have slightly different behavior. You are throwing them in an enclosed space with little area to interact or choose not to interact. Your synthetic ecological niche may not be able to support them for any length of time. If it allows for proper behavoir and in turn tolerance, hybridization can occure. But also, to put it nicely, your synthetic niche can also warp behavior and force hybridization, or unneaded aggression. An experiment yes, but not needed. We do not need another Avic hybrid. Let nature do that.
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yes i did read the post and I don't want to interbreed the species, just wondering if they could get along in a 10 gallon tank. I would only breed the A. Avic with it's own. I do have a 55 gallon fish tank thanks. I just didn't know if the versicolor would be close enough to co habitat
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Nothing good will come of this.
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exactlyNothing good will come of this.
in my opinion, everything that needs to be said, has already been said.
-dan-
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Like I said I have NO intentions of breeding the two species, I'm just getting started and it was a simple question thanks
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Like I said I have NO intentions of breeding the two species, I'm just getting started and it was a simple question thanks
that comment wasn't directed towards you.
i'm saying there are usually people on here that will automatically go into 'angry' mode and start slamming the person who originally posted the situation/question/whatev. also, i was trying to get this point across: when people post stuff regarding interbreeding, just direct them to the slew of threads that have already been created on that subject.. i'm not saying that your original post was about interbreeding, but somehow i -knew- that's what this thread would turn into.. hope that clears up things a bit.
i had/have no hard feelings toward you. you just asked a simple question, no harm in that.
let's just say that AB has had a fair share of threads relating to interbreeding, some of them didn't even have to do with interbreeding at first. it usually ends up in some sort of argument, and quite frankly, it often ends up like day-time television re-runs.
dan
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Doesn't mean they have to listen.
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there's no reason to even try it. There is, of course hybridization issue that's been pretty well covered. Also, being different species they almost certainly won't get along. Even under the best of circumstances Avics aren't particularly great candidates for communal experiments. They are sometimes tolerant of living in close proximity to each other but that's about where it stops. To the best of my knowledge they don't exhibit any of the truly communal behaviors like familial group feeding in H incei, H gigas and Pamphobeteus sp. "Chicken Spider" or the plain 'ol cuddling all over each other that some Poecilotheria do.
Mixing them would almost certainly result in one fat T.
Mixing them would almost certainly result in one fat T.