hmm, my supplier deals with bruce from arachnophiliacs, and he brought the mexican fantasy to the store. i can't remember if i bought one though (i bought about 10 t's that night). i wish i could remember... it wasn't anything special though, i remember 'goon talked me out of it.
Mexican Fantasy??? What the heck is it?
- Thread starter sansoucie
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In the Dunlop Manual from the ATS is an article from Forum Vol 4, No. 3 that talks about interbreeding in a genus a little. Actually just read it the other day and immediately thought of it when I read this thread. He actually uses a B. vagans cross with another Brachy as an example in the article.
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Ok, but whats the point in doing it other than being able to say "Lookie I have a hybrid"??? Am I missing something here?
i guess a new species is a new species to some people, no matter what you have to do to get it. it may also just be a challenge to some people who are trying to breed them. others it may be bragging rights like you said. people are weird and everyones got their own agenda when it comes to animals. people breed wolf hybrids, the only reason i can see for this one is bragging rights... but as i say with things like this, why as why?
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If anyone is still interested, I was emailed back pretty promptly! Im kinda interested in this....
> I can find no pics or information on this:
> Mexican Fantasy
> (Brachypelma pallidum x vagans) * CB 3/4"
> CB 1" $14.
> $16.
>
> Can you please provide more info and a pic? This is a hybrid, Im assuming?
It is indeed, which would explain the silly name (to avoid confusion!) and the lack of info! Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera, but the appearance of the first breeding is that of B. pallidum (now verdezi), which is the father. Cheers,
Bruce
Arachnophiliacs
Since 1986
Specialising in Captive Bred Arachnids from Around the World
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Arachnophiliacs
Arachnophiliacs@hotmail.com
(416) 461-5754 English, Espanol, Francais (Un petit peut!)
> I can find no pics or information on this:
> Mexican Fantasy
> (Brachypelma pallidum x vagans) * CB 3/4"
> CB 1" $14.
> $16.
>
> Can you please provide more info and a pic? This is a hybrid, Im assuming?
It is indeed, which would explain the silly name (to avoid confusion!) and the lack of info! Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera, but the appearance of the first breeding is that of B. pallidum (now verdezi), which is the father. Cheers,
Bruce
Arachnophiliacs
Since 1986
Specialising in Captive Bred Arachnids from Around the World
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Arachnophiliacs
Arachnophiliacs@hotmail.com
(416) 461-5754 English, Espanol, Francais (Un petit peut!)
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So tarantulas become like orchids or roses with everyone trying to have their signature breed.
emilsmee said:
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LOL! I hear ya there.monantony said:
I did some reading last night on the hybridization vs traditional breeding and I have to say I am leaning toward being against breeding hybrids. There seem to be many instances of hybrids that really are fertile and I imagine this gets pretty muddy at some point. Maybe not for the "lookie I have a hairy spider" hobbyists, but for the truly interested leaning toward more scientific interest hobbyists.
What do you all feel the impact of hybridization will have on the hobby and the future of certain breeds? I dont want to argue about it.. I am sincerely interested in your views as I know most if not all of you are more up to date and better educated about Tarantulas than I am or will be for a while!
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I really, really hope I'm not getting myself drawn into this debate . God knows we don't need it again.
Generally I'm against breeding hybrid Ts. Not sure why right now but I think mostly I agree with the view that we should try to keep species pure. The more I read though, I'm beginning to think that, in the long run, hybridizing could cause fewer problems than we think. Since (some?) taxonomists are so against naming sub-species I think we are a bit limited in understanding the evolution of tarantulas. This is just my opinion based on what little research I've done so far.
Generally I'm against breeding hybrid Ts. Not sure why right now but I think mostly I agree with the view that we should try to keep species pure. The more I read though, I'm beginning to think that, in the long run, hybridizing could cause fewer problems than we think. Since (some?) taxonomists are so against naming sub-species I think we are a bit limited in understanding the evolution of tarantulas. This is just my opinion based on what little research I've done so far.
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It shouldnt be a flaming debate, people are entitled to their own opinions. Yours and mine just happen to be on the same page for now! LOL! From the little I know so far I agree with what you're saying. It simply muddies the water of an already "mysterious" subject. I am thinking of it in terms of dog breeding, which is of course a stretch.. but its the closest I can come to... and I lean to the purist side
Lets hear some views of people that agree with hybrids and why you feel that way. I'd like to keep it civil and purely informative... if we can manage it! Its been flamed before and it gets more personal than informative... and I quit reading the thread....
Lets hear some views of people that agree with hybrids and why you feel that way. I'd like to keep it civil and purely informative... if we can manage it! Its been flamed before and it gets more personal than informative... and I quit reading the thread....
I'm no expert on this, but i don't think comparing Dogs and T's is really going to get us anywhere. Dog breeds, unlike Tarantulas, are not natural at all. They come from at least 100's if not 1000's of years of selective breeding to bring out certain traits. Once the "ideal" traits have been brought out and this new "breed" has been created, they are mated only with others from this same breed in order to keep it "pure". There are plenty of negatives about pure bred dogs. Pure breds tend to have more medical problems, such as breed specific/common disease and breed specific/common alergies. When you scrape the bottom of the gene barrel long enough, you are stuck with genes that continue to pass on disease, abnormalities, or whatever. When breeding "pure", we are not letting natural selection take place. For example, it is relatively common for a Dalmation to be born blind. There is some kind of recesive gene that causes the blindness and as long as we keep breeding them together, the chance of two recessive "blind" genes meeting is much greater. So leaning toward "pure" isn't necassarily the best way to do thing if we're talking about the health of the animal.
With T's it's very different. All the species we see today are what have occured naturally, not human created. It's hard to say what cross breeding will lead to. I doubt it will be anything like dog breeding though. If anything you can probably compare it to Snake breeding. There are a handfull of cross bred snakes. SUch as the Jungle King/Corn. A cross between a king and a corn snake. Some of these cross' are infertile, some aren't from what i understand. However, i once again make it known that i am no expert on this. I only have a very basic knowledge. Interesting topic though.
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LAking said:
Yes, I did not think it was a very good comparison but it was all I could think of! Im speaking of the way dogs are currently AFTER these centuries of selective breeding... we have a bunch of mutants, although they are fertile, they are genetically corrupt. Im kind of wondering if this same scenario can be payed out with Ts after this hybridization and inbreeding... IF they are fertile at all. AND if we have genetically corrupt Ts, whats the use in breedin them in the first place other than status pets? ( which I do not agree with BTW)
I did not know snakes could be bred this way! Learn something new every day on AB!
I doubt that T's will ever get as bad as Dogs are today. Let's face it, the average human wants a pet they can cuddle with and occasionally give commands to, not a pet that hates being disturbed and will pop if squeezed in the slightest. As much as we love out T's, we are very much in the minority and I cannot see that ever changing. Tsansoucie said:
he reason why people cross snakes it essentially to create a cooler looking snake. A lot of the appeal of snakes is their wide variety of colors and patterns. When you cross certain species you get even more interesting colors and patterns. Even if they aren't fertile i can see why people would want to create them and keep them. It's just another interesting looking snake to add to your collection. Whether that is a just reason i couldn't tell you.
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Its A Hybrid T Crossed From A Pallidium To A Vegan
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tHERE IN NOTHING WRONG WITH CREATING A HYBRID OR EVEN CREATING A CUSTOM T BUT ITS A VERY LONG PROCESS AND IN NATURE IT REALLY CAN AND DOES HAPPEN WHEN THE LIVING RANGES OF SPECIES OVERLAP BUT HONESTLY T BREEDING IS STILL SO NEW AS WELL AS IT BEING LIMITED TO A SMALL MINORITY OF PEOPLE THE HEALTH EFFECTS UPON YOUR HYBRIDS IS REALLY UNKNOWN SINCE THERE ISN'T A INDEPTH BOOK OUTHERE EVEN ON T HEALTH ISSUES THE THING IS IF YOU DO CROSSBREED YOU NEED TO KEEP A ACCURATE RECORD OF THE PARENTS AND THE GROWTH RATES AS WELL AS SEEING IF THE OFFSPRING ARE FERTILE WHICH INVOLVES YEARS TO DOCUMENT ALSO DON'T SELL THEM AS PURE SPECIMENS WE ALREADY HAVE A LIMITED GENE POOL OF SOME OF THE IMPORTED T'S ALREADY ULTIMATELY WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR OWN STOCK IS YOUR RIGHT JUST KEEP TRACK OF YOUR RESULTS
I know this should be a PM, but publicly it serves a dual purpose...
That has got to be the hardest to read post I've ever seen..All caps, one GIANT sentence....! DaIllest would be proud, except it appears you spelled correctly ( I'm not sure, I can't look at it for long )
T
That has got to be the hardest to read post I've ever seen..All caps, one GIANT sentence....! DaIllest would be proud, except it appears you spelled correctly ( I'm not sure, I can't look at it for long
)T
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Not much IMO, if your doing it as a scientific experiment I guess it could offer something to you. I dont see much harm in it, as hybrids are usually sterile, but I hope it doesnt confuse petshop owners any more then they already are as its hard to know what the hell you just bought half the time.sansoucie said:
Agree, we have to be responsable for the limited pool of spiders we have now.
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Dude, Cap locks is not a must to make a point...Its rather annoying..
The only downside I could see with hybrdizing t's is doing with with rare species in the trade. it wastes a great amount of time which could be used to create a more firm stock of that particuliar species, also as allready stated.. Don't sell the stock.. hell I wouldn't advise giving them away.. no need to ruin a allready dirty and murky watered taxomany..[spelling]
The only downside I could see with hybrdizing t's is doing with with rare species in the trade. it wastes a great amount of time which could be used to create a more firm stock of that particuliar species, also as allready stated.. Don't sell the stock.. hell I wouldn't advise giving them away.. no need to ruin a allready dirty and murky watered taxomany..[spelling]
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Even worse.... doing it with species where is is not possible to get fresh (pure) blood, for example CITES protected species ( Brachypelma.) Mess up once and there is no chance to start over again.Malhavoc's said:
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What? T's that only eat plant matter? :? Where can I get one?averagebehr said:
Ok, now I got that out of my system...I pretty much agree w/the anti-hybrid ideas presented here. I don't know everything, or even a considerable amount, about the status of natural habitats for T spp. around the world, but what I do know is that many of their natural habitats are threatened. W/this being the case it's best to keep as many un-hybridized specimens around as possible. This is preferred in cases where the habitat is restored and it's time to re-introduce the critters into the wild; you want to replace what was aready there.