Mantid keeping laws and questions

[skips]

I've heard alot, even on different threads on this forum, about whether or not it is illegal to keep mantid species. All ive gathered is that it is not illegal, unless in a protected area like a national forest, to take and keep native (U.S. species) mantid species. There are no native species that are endangered. Here is what i'd like to know:

1.) I've heard it is illegal to transport mantis species, specifically across international or state lines. What are the laws on that. I live in ohio so any info on that would be apreciated.

2.) some have said it's illegal to own exotic species, but that people own them because the laws is just very difficult to enforce. Some suggest you would need a permit to own them.

3.) This is more of a comment. I already know if the species is on the CITES list, and I know some are, it is illegal to catch, distribute, or own the species. But, like any other species on the list, if it is captive bread it does not fall under the CITES laws.

So, what of this is true? I don't mean to be rude, but i'm not interested in your opinions--meaning that if you have information please be able to back it up with a credible source. Thank you!

 

[JayzunBoget]

You should try posting that question on http://mantidforum.net/forums/. Or just do a search when you get there.

 

[skips]

Thanks. I thought of that and searched mantidforum almost right after I posted this thread. there's alot on it there but for some reason no seems to know for sure. The majority say you need an easy to get permit but that no one really enforces the laws. Some say there are scams involving fake permit distribution. I think im leaning toward needing a permit. I've heard orchid mantises specifically named as illegal to own without a permit although not endangered, but then again people have them and im sure they dont have permits--so how were they imported? It's just confusing. Im sure one of my professors has a contact in the USDA, or would know. I'll post what I find i guess.

 

[Matt K]

One of my hobbies, it seems, is to learn about bug laws and regulations. If you are not selling mantids and can show where yours came from domestically, it should not be a problem from what I gather regardless of species. It is more of an issue in some southern states and in particular California and Florida.

1. You could attempt to contact an entomologist in the APHIS office in Washington D.C. They seem responsive though it may take a few days to get back to you.

2. The APHIS office in your state has a Plant Protection division manager who makes all the permit decisions for your state, so you could contact that person for very specific information too.

 

[herpguy]

None of the laws say specifically that you cannot ship or keep mantids domestically, the law breaking comes in when you internationally ship, which unfortunately has to happen to keep our dying hobby going.
Even though it is technically legal to keep them, the USDA has 1001 loopholes to work with, and if they want to get you in trouble, they will. Fortunately mantid keeping is overlooked by the USDA, and nobody really gets bothered.
-Dave

 

[Matt K]

** NOTE:

"None of the laws say specifically..." sums it up.

Almost all of the laws regarding insects have intentionally been written to cover all insects (mantids or otherwise), as there are too many species and other variables that would enable specific laws, so they have to be general by default. To be specific they would have to write so many new laws it would be out of control.

 

[skips]

So, then my next question. Is it possible to ship overseas? Will the shipment be stopped?

 

[Matt K]

Depends on the country that its going to, which also means the reprocussions you face will vary greatly. Could be no problem, could mean a giant fine or short jail time if you dont have the cash to pay it.

 

[skips]

In the united states. ohio specifically

 

[Matt K]

In the united states. ohio specifically

??? Are you shipping to the state of Ohio or are you in Ohio being shipped to ?? Or in Ohio shipping out to another country? and if so which one? These clarifications would help out in getting a good answer post....

 

[skips]

to ohio from wherever. probably the UK it looks like, hopefully in the U.S.

 

[Matt K]

Interstate shipping occurrs all the time without any problems.

Having something sent to you from another country is called illegally importing livestock, which you would do at your own risk. Penalties may range from a letter telling you "dont do it again" to a thousand dollar fine, or worst case a little jail time. So its up to you.

Big brother is watching, and probably reading your posts....

 

[herpguy]

A main difference is that although mantid shipping overseas is "illegal," it is far from being enforced regularly. Out of anybody in the hobby, there is only one case of someone having officers come to their house, and nothing was taken and no fines were given.
The efforts are mainly focused on phasmids, if you post about selling or keeping phasmids, they will come and take your phasmids and your substrate (to get any eggs).
-Dave

 

[skips]

Interstate shipping occurrs all the time without any problems.

Big brother is watching, and probably reading your posts....

Then I will don my tin foil hat. I think this discussion is about over. I think ive done enough research to make a decision on whether to get them or not. Thank you all.