Isopods- has anyone established a color strain from a wild find?

[Fishkeeper]

There are a lot of Armadillidium vulgare in my area. I've just realized that nothing is stopping me from going out into a nearby wooded area, digging around until I find some orange ones, and using those to breed a strain of orange isos. I know orange A. vulgare are already in the hobby, but it wouldn't hurt anything to have another genetic line available eventually.

Does anyone here have personal experience with doing something like this? I found a thread on another forum of someone who started doing it, but didn't post much past when they found some orange ones and kept them.

Am I right that it's as simple as the below?
1: Find isos of the color you want.
2: Isolate those isos, with maybe a few others for genetic diversity, in their own suitable enclosure.
3: Wait for the next generation to mature enough to show colors.
4: Remove all the ones that are furthest away from the desired color.
5: Repeat, occasionally adding in new individuals near the desired color if they can be found elsewhere.

I know the calico and the spotted varieties can be harder to isolate, but straight-up "orange" is pretty simple, right? Just the most basic form of selective breeding?

 

[StampFan]

That looks right to me....but the guy who actually wrote a book on isopods, @Elytra and Antenna is on Arachnoboards, who would be a much better person to answer...

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

Yes, they're all isolated from wild forms. If you start with a wild population that lacks the gene 20 years won't make a difference. It is simple recessive for orange and dalmatian.

 

[Fishkeeper]

What's a good number of the mutated-color one to start with? I know you could theoretically manage it with just one, especially since that would mean the non-orange ones in the area are likely to be recessive carriers, but what would be a better number? 5?

Also, does anyone know how far apart different genetic populations would be? What I mean by that is- if I'm in a patch of woodland, and I've found enough pillbugs to be fairly sure this population doesn't have the orange gene, how far away from that area do I need to go to find a population that might? Will half a mile do it?

 

[Polenth]

I wouldn't remove non-oranges with the first generation, as a lot of those will be carrying one orange gene. Better to start a new population and move the oranges there. Then maintain the original population for a few generations to get more oranges. It'll give you better genetic diversity to do that.

I'm working with some mottled patterns, so I'll be keeping my original population until I understand what's going on.

 

[Fishkeeper]

Noted, thanks.

How large an enclosure would I need to start out? I have some round deli containers that are about 6" across, I'm assuming those are a decent size? Just for the first generation or so, until I started to get a bunch of them.

My thought at this point is I could set up two enclosures. A, and B. Into A, I put any orange ones I find. Into B, non-orange ones from the same area as the orange ones. All the non-orange ones that show up in in enclosure A go into B, any orange ones in B go into A.

 

[ohaple]

Noted, thanks.

How large an enclosure would I need to start out? I have some round deli containers that are about 6" across, I'm assuming those are a decent size? Just for the first generation or so, until I started to get a bunch of them.

My thought at this point is I could set up two enclosures. A, and B. Into A, I put any orange ones I find. Into B, non-orange ones from the same area as the orange ones. All the non-orange ones that show up in in enclosure A go into B, any orange ones in B go into A.

One thing to know when isolating isopods to breed for morphs. The females will carry the sperm from multiple males for many months. They have a mechanism to use older sperm first, but will have young from multiple fathers when they give birth. This is different from most other animals people breed where you can determine genotype and phenotype, and then breed for the phenotype you want. With isopods this can be done, but you will have to continue to cull to get rid of genetics from the old wild type fathers. Over time, if you remove the wild types before they are able to breed, you will get a good line. The other way to do it (which is usually only done in a laboratory environment) is to isolate virgin individuals. Then when you pair them off you can be sure that the children will all be from those parents. It is not typically done because it isn't necessary and requires much more work. I am going to try an experiment like that with A. Vulgare, but given their slow time to breed it will be a rather long experiment. I may not have the patience to wait it out. I think it would yield the most benefit in an already-established line to further reduce the number of wild-types the culture throws.

 

[REEFSPIDER]

This is only a small portion of my wild type A vulgare from Fullerton California,

 

[Fishkeeper]

Nice! How big do yours tend to be?
I see a couple of orangish ones in there, and some really light ones. Have you ever thought about trying to isolate a color?

 

[REEFSPIDER]

Nice! How big do yours tend to be?
I see a couple of orangish ones in there, and some really light ones. Have you ever thought about trying to isolate a color?

I have some isolated cultures and some with all types together.

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

Personally, i've never seen orange A. vulgare, but I see orange, red and white (actually white, not just freshly molted) P. scaber all the time.

 

[REEFSPIDER]

Personally, i've never seen orange A. vulgare, but I see orange, red and white (actually white, not just freshly molted) P. scaber all the time.

I barely started coming across more Porcellio spp, i had been getting skunked on any true woodlice and finding tons of vulgare populations. Then i managed to find a few p.dilatatus, p.pruinosus blue, and pruinosus wild type

 

[Fishkeeper]

I found some!
I can't photograph them right, because they aren't very orange and are very small, but they're a bit orange! Some of them have a decent rim of orange around the edge. And the rock I found the first (and brightest) one under had a pair of surinam roaches under it, too! It was a good rock.

 

[REEFSPIDER]

I found some!
I can't photograph them right, because they aren't very orange and are very small, but they're a bit orange! Some of them have a decent rim of orange around the edge. And the rock I found the first (and brightest) one under had a pair of surinam roaches under it, too! It was a good rock.

Suri roaches in TX? Nice, and If you are looking for vulgare, i reccomend you look on shaded embankments and hillsides that have dense layers of ground cover, start at the bottom of said embankment or hill and work your way up, removing the ground cover in patches down to the soil layer on hills like this almost always proves out regardless of where i am. Always return the ground cover you remove after. Cheers

 

[Fishkeeper]

Yep! I used to find them in my yard a few years ago, but haven't seen any under those specific rocks since. The ones I found were at a house with a decent-sized garden, so I'm guessing they came in via potted plants. They're all over the place, evidently. I'm planning to check out the local garden center and see if any are hiding there. I know genetic diversity is a bit redundant in a parthenogenetic species, but it sure won't hurt anything.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. These were under leaf litter underneath someone's shrubs, which is pretty much where I tend to find them. It's pretty dry here, so they hang out under as much leaf litter as they can find. Rocks surrounded by leaf litter are a good bet.
I'm going to keep a look out for some REALLY orange ones, instead of just the vaguely orange ones, and for vaguely orange ones from other areas. Bigger gene pool and all.

 

[Trevors]

I've established O. asellus "maple" from wild caught. I found a group of 7 to start with. I'm also working on another color morph of asellus that started with 2 WC males. Here's a link to my first post on them http://arachnoboards.com/threads/orange-oniscus-asellus.302710/