I'm a bit confused about CITES stuff...can I import G. pulchra into Canada?

[hermit]

Hey guys, sorry for asking noob questions, but the stuff related to importing and exporting tarantulas is a bit mystifying. I have done some reading that has suggested that G. pulchras are not on the CITES list which, if I understand it correctly means that I am able to import them if I can find someone who is willing to ship to Canada.

To look further, I went to this cites page (http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/species.html) and searched for Grammostola pulchra and found no results.

So, do I have this correctly that I could import a pulchra from the USA, or are there other issues beyond cites that restrict this?

Thanks

 

[paassatt]

Why don't you just save yourself the hassle and paperwork and buy a captive bred specimen from someone in Canada, eh?

 

[hermit]

Why don't you just save yourself the hassle and paperwork and buy a captive bred specimen from someone in Canada, eh?

Thanks for evading the question, but what I am trying to establish is whether there's hassle and paperwork at all, since the animal appears to be not on the CITES list.

In any case, I have been doing what you suggest, but there's dreadfully little supply in the country. I bought the only ones that appeared to be available in BC last year. I have currently reserved the only specimen available from another well known dealer in the east and am having it sent out after it moults. I am going to be purchasing a number of slings from TarantulaCanada in the coming weeks as well, but call me crazy, I figured it would be a good idea to research all of my options anyways.

 

[paassatt]

I recall reading a thread a while back that said you'd need some export paperwork from USFWS, a detailed bill of sale and proof that the animal isn't listed on CITES. There's a button in the upper right-hand portion of the page that lets you search for things on this forum, I'd suggest using that.

Hope I wasn't being too evasive with regards to your question this time.

 

[hermit]

About the followup I'd expect. In any case, you responded to my first query with a rhetorical question. Surely you can appreciate the value in that. I'll piss off and find out more about USFWS. That fragment may prove helpful.

 

[Amoeba]

That rhetorical question is trying to save you a bunch of time, money, and hassle. If you want to wrestle with the US and Canadian gubberment over one stupid spider then by all means LUCHA LIBRE!!!!!

There are plenty of G pulchra in Canada.

 

[Shell]

Of course there will be paperwork invloved, CITES or not, you are still importing something. Just what kind of paperwork, well you need to contact someone in Fish and Wildlife on your end to find out where to start. This will all depend also on what country you are importing from, as each country has it's own laws regarding this stuff.

As for the replies you recieved...you are posting on a website where the majority of us are simply hobbyists. Most of us don't import/export regularly (if at all), so we can only tell you what we know or have read etc, we aren't experts. To answer this question fully, you need to ask an expert. Don't be angry that the replies you got from hobbyists didn't fully answer you.

 

[AzJohn]

I recall reading a thread a while back that said you'd need some export paperwork from USFWS, a detailed bill of sale and proof that the animal isn't listed on CITES. There's a button in the upper right-hand portion of the page that lets you search for things on this forum, I'd suggest using that.

Hope I wasn't being too evasive with regards to your question this time.

Why would he need anything from USFWS if he is importing to Canada? OP, why don't you ask in the Canadian subforum or ask a Canadian Dealer.

 

[paassatt]

Why would he need anything from USFWS if he is importing to Canada? OP, why don't you ask in the Canadian subforum or ask a Canadian Dealer.

I don't know, as I've never been in said situation. I was just passing along information I'd previously read. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[hamhock 74]

T/C has 1/2 and 1 in pulchra slings, why import from america? If your looking for a larger guaranteed sexed specimen then post an ad in the canada subforums I'm sure sooner or later someone will want to part with one. No need for all the hassle mate.

 

[AzJohn]

I don't know, as I've never been in said situation. I was just passing along information I'd previously read. Don't shoot the messenger.

Actually USFWS would probably be needed if the OP was importing from the US. I just didn't read the last part of the OP's post, sorry. If I was going to import into Canada I would not use a US dealer unless what I wanted was not found in Europe, way to much paper work. Really no point if the species can be found in Canada.

 

[pocock1899]

You do need to file a USFWS Declaration (Form 3-177) whether you are importing OR exporting.

And, you are correct, they aren't listed under CITES. The only tarantulas listed under CITES is the Genus of Brachypelma.

Actually, truth be told, it's the shipper that needs to file the Declaration. They are the ones who would be violating the law if it didn't get filed. If they are selling it to you, that means it would be a commercial transaction/shipment in the eyes of USFWS, so they would have to have a commercial license ($100) and they'd have to pay the fee for a Commercial, live, non-protected inspection ($186).

Now, they would probably pass that fee on to you, as well as the shipping.

These numbers can work out if you are shipping a lot of spiders.

But for one, singe Grammastola? You are talking an adult P. metallica for that price!

I'd take the advice and buy from inside Canada.

Also, I know that Environment Canada would require some paperwork too, but I'm not sure what. You'd want to check with them too.

Just one further point, If you absolutely have to have an American Spider, you could avoid those fees if you drove across the border and brought it back with you. You'd STILL have to file a Declaration, but since it's a personal shipment, filing the Declaration is free and there would be no license required. All free.

 

[hermit]

Thanks, pocock. That's a very helpful response.

I thought it would be something of a given that I would have exhausted the standard Canadian avenues already if I'm inquiring about importing. I'm also not likely going to, given what you've described, but I was just feeling out whether it was practical. For my purposes, it is not.

You do need to file a USFWS Declaration (Form 3-177) whether you are importing OR exporting.

And, you are correct, they aren't listed under CITES. The only tarantulas listed under CITES is the Genus of Brachypelma.

Actually, truth be told, it's the shipper that needs to file the Declaration. They are the ones who would be violating the law if it didn't get filed. If they are selling it to you, that means it would be a commercial transaction/shipment in the eyes of USFWS, so they would have to have a commercial license ($100) and they'd have to pay the fee for a Commercial, live, non-protected inspection ($186).

Now, they would probably pass that fee on to you, as well as the shipping.

These numbers can work out if you are shipping a lot of spiders.

But for one, singe Grammastola? You are talking an adult P. metallica for that price!

I'd take the advice and buy from inside Canada.

Also, I know that Environment Canada would require some paperwork too, but I'm not sure what. You'd want to check with them too.

Just one further point, If you absolutely have to have an American Spider, you could avoid those fees if you drove across the border and brought it back with you. You'd STILL have to file a Declaration, but since it's a personal shipment, filing the Declaration is free and there would be no license required. All free.

 

[Jared781]

1. I wouldnt go through the hassle for a single 1 G. pulchra!!

2. They're quite common in the hobby in my opinion... did ya check Tarcan? or the sub forums?

If you either buy from an online dealer or board member you can easily get another specimen with your purchase, including a 'freebie' as Tarcan always hooks up!

 

[SamuraiSid]

Nobody gonna point out that hermit has awesome taste in T's? Fine!

Hermit, your a good man. G. pulchra is the most beautiful T in the hobby. Im curious why your after so many? Personally I'd like to have a dozen of these guys myself. Your gonna sell me a ton of slings if you breed them, right?

 

[Tarac]

Thanks for evading the question, but what I am trying to establish is whether there's hassle and paperwork at all, since the animal appears to be not on the CITES list.

Paasatt answered the question- save yourself the "hassle" means the hassle of import permits. Since you are already shipping whether in Canada or not, the only other thing possible hassle would be import paperwork. Importing any live organism, regardless of status, will almost unilaterally require an import permit to almost every country. That means export on the shippers end (that's where USFWS come in) and import on your end through whatever agency exists in Canada AND there is a possibility that you have regional permits to acquire as well. In the states, you need an import to get it into the country and then you sometimes need something from your state of residence as well. Likely you will have to pay for both export and import permits, a dealer isn't going to foot that bill for you. G. pulchra is common enough, just wait it out and someone in Canada will have a sac sooner or later. Definitely not worth bothering unless you are importing huge numbers.

I think the first response answered you in full anyway. What other "hassle" can you imagine that is any different from moving a T from eastern to western Canada besides permits? If it's implicit somewhere between the lines that you have "exhausted the other avenues" by your posting here, then it is also implicit that "not worth the hassle" means permits, headache and way too much money for a common T.

 

[hermit]

1. I wouldnt go through the hassle for a single 1 G. pulchra!!

2. They're quite common in the hobby in my opinion... did ya check Tarcan? or the sub forums?

If you either buy from an online dealer or board member you can easily get another specimen with your purchase, including a 'freebie' as Tarcan always hooks up!

Yes Jared, I'm already planning a purchase from tarcan shortly, but I'm still on the hunt for more mature specimens, whatever I can find. I've already put an open call on the Canada subforum and I've done similar in my regional forum. I didn't see any harm in also investigating the issues regarding importing. These are not nearly as common in the hobby (in terms of availability) as you might think. Likely because those who own them don't have any desire to part with them. I started looking for them almost a year ago and the slings at tarcan right now are the only ones available from established dealers in the country that I've been able to find.

Nobody gonna point out that hermit has awesome taste in T's? Fine!

Hermit, your a good man. G. pulchra is the most beautiful T in the hobby. Im curious why your after so many? Personally I'd like to have a dozen of these guys myself. Your gonna sell me a ton of slings if you breed them, right?

Hey Sid, I'm after whatever stock I can get so that I have a good variety for breeding, as you predicted. I hope to bolster availability of this species in Canada by breeding them actively. I personally find them to be the most beautiful of all T species.

---------- Post added 04-19-2012 at 08:23 AM ----------

Paasatt answered the question- save yourself the "hassle" means the hassle of import permits. Since you are already shipping whether in Canada or not, the only other thing possible hassle would be import paperwork. Importing any live organism, regardless of status, will almost unilaterally require an import permit to almost every country. That means export on the shippers end (that's where USFWS come in) and import on your end through whatever agency exists in Canada AND there is a possibility that you have regional permits to acquire as well. In the states, you need an import to get it into the country and then you sometimes need something from your state of residence as well. Likely you will have to pay for both export and import permits, a dealer isn't going to foot that bill for you. G. pulchra is common enough, just wait it out and someone in Canada will have a sac sooner or later. Definitely not worth bothering unless you are importing huge numbers.

I think the first response answered you in full anyway. What other "hassle" can you imagine that is any different from moving a T from eastern to western Canada besides permits? If it's implicit somewhere between the lines that you have "exhausted the other avenues" by your posting here, then it is also implicit that "not worth the hassle" means permits, headache and way too much money for a common T.

When someone asks how they can do something, I don't feel that simply dismissing them with "don't bother" is a productive response. If that's all I had to offer, I wouldn't bother responding. Or if I was going to respond in such a fashion, I'd back it up with a little bit of info as to why. The first response seemed immediately dismissive to me and without a scrap of material information I had no way of knowing if this is just him making blind assumptions based on third party accounts of importing or if he's actually researched it and/or done it and knows first-hand what is involved.

Just as I feel that kind of response is unproductive, I also recognize that every additional comment that addresses this meta-issue and not the issue of importing is also unproductive and I'm just going to let this thread die.

People in Canada know what I'm looking for. Thanks for your time.