Huahini Venom Level

[sweetmisery]

Anyone knows? Cant seem to find an info, all I know is that they are agressive.

THANKS!

 

[Moltar]

Well, i don't know but since i have one i'm bumpin this thang back to the top in hopes somebody will answer.

 

[P. Novak]

From this person's experience, http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=54684&highlight=Chilobrachys+huahini , it sounds like it's not that bad, but it may have been a dry bite. I'd say most asian species have higher levels of venom, so I'd say this is up there somewhere, but not exactly sure where. I can tell you it's probably higher than a Grammostola sp. and lower than a Poecilotheria sp.

 

[Buckwheat]

I am not sure why rumors, myths and urban legends continue to abound concerning the venom toxicity of tarantula spiders. True, we don't really know much about them considering we have only known about them for something like 260 years in relation to modern science but, I personally know of no studies or modern science that states that any tarantula has a venom that is even remotely dangerous to us as keepers. Further more, If such studies did exist it would be well known by the hobby over all at this point in time.

One reason this hobby is so fractured is the persistence of rumors or stories that have no scientific data or studies to back them up. We seem to hear things, read things on the Internet and for some reason take them as gospel. Why?

Is there some basis for the response above that makes reference to higher levels of venom for certain species? where did you obtain that information? is there science behind this or simply speculation on your part? I'm not attacking you by any means. Simply asking what you base the statement on about
"I'd say most asian species have higher levels of venom" we need to convey information to members here and on other forums that is accurate and can be verified so as to stop all the misinformation out there concerning this hobby and past and current species available and any dangers involved. The only real danger is for those that already have medical issues with stings and bites and those of us that believe anything they hear or read without scientific basis to pass accurate information.
Until it is shown otherwise there is no real danger to us as hobbyists and keepers of tarantulas other than the possible mechanical injury from a bite of the larger species which can simply be treated as any other puncture wound.

 

[syndicate]

theres been published articles regarding people having to seek medical attention from bites of Poecliotheria species.some spiders have medicaly significant venom and if u think that is a myth then your mistaken

 

[Bear Foot Inc]

WOW, ummmm not really sure how to reply to above post... People who have been bit by pokies have had a much worse response then people bit by rosea... nuf said! The people posting some of these reports are completely trustworthy...
Sure we dont have a LD50 on the venom's, but that is not needed...

~Samuel

edit* the post above syndicate's he beat me to it...

 

[harrypei]

I don't know where that came from either...I can draw from my personal experience and people that I know have been bitten by different species. It is almost always true that people, on average, have a worse reaction to a bit from an old world specie versus a new world specie. Pokie, Halopelma, P.murinus, H.maculata, among others, don't get their reputation for no reason. I understand there might not be LD50 information published on venoms of tarantulas, to simply say that there's no danger at all is just too...

better safe than sorry.

 

[JColt]

Best just not to risk it. I'm very careful around all my old worlds.

 

[Venom]

We have just one C.huahini bite report here on AB:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=54684

This bite was pretty mild ( probably not much venom injected ), but I have read a pretty bad bite report from C.fimbriatus, so they are probably alike in terms of venom. If it's anything like the fimbriatus, the bite is probably worse than that of an OBT.

 

[Buckwheat]

If there are studies, research or other reliable and current information out there to establish that old world species indeed have more potent venom than other species currently in the hobby trade, why not post those to verify that such reports are valid? What one person's reactions might be as opposed to another person's reactions mean very little really. Some people already have issues with bites and stings and those that do not or are unknown or might be concerned should find out medically to verify whether or not they might have any issues.

To speculate here is fine. To say for sure that this or that is true with regards to harmful venom levels without anything to back that up is only serving to continue to spread rumors and unknown truths. If folks here know this to be true and can substantiate those truths with some form of scientific studies to show that then that is wonderful. Otherwise who says this is fact? The truth, if known would more likely support the fact that old worlds could be considered somewhat more defensive for various reasons, therefore giving way to rumors or simple urban legends that somehow these spiders are somehow more venomous than others.

So if we can keep this discussion simple and friendly then lets see some valid information here to support the fact that certain species may be more venomous than others rather than conjecture and speculation here. Husbandry is not rocket science when it comes to keeping arachnids. It is actually quite easy really.

 

[Stylopidae]

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=825053&postcount=14
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=78009
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=16757&postcount=1
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=11996
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5832

Buckwheat, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. There are some tarantulas whose bites *may* require medical attention.

If you do a quick scan for the content of my posts, you'll quickly come to find out I'm not one to spread rumors or urban legends which aren't backed up by evidence. I, too have seen published reports of people who needed medical care after being bitten by certian old world tarantulas.

There are lots of data that support these claims and professional arachnologists tend to agree with them. I'm also fairly certian LD50 values will back this up.

People who get bitten by OW tarantulas generally have more severe symptoms than people who are bitten by NW tarantulas completely across the boards. The data is right there in the bite reports section of this website.

 

[P. Novak]

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=825053&postcount=14
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=78009
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=16757&postcount=1
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=11996
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5832

Buckwheat, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. There are some tarantulas whose bites *may* require medical attention.

:clap: Ah, some people..

 

[Venom]

I'm with Cheshire!! :clap:

Wait, did I say that?!

Buckwheat, you should do a search on bite reports for the Selenocosmiinae, Harpactirinae, Ornithoctoninae, and Eumenophoriinae families of tarantula genera. The bites are very well observed to be *potentially* serious. Not life-threatening, but nothing to sneeze at either. Chesh and I have done our homework on this. It's up to you now to do your own.

 

[sweetmisery]

I'm with Cheshire!! :clap:

Wait, did I say that?!

Buckwheat, you should do a search on bite reports for the Selenocosmiinae, Harpactirinae, Ornithoctoninae, and Eumenophoriinae families of tarantula genera. The bites are very well observed to be *potentially* serious. Not life-threatening, but nothing to sneeze at either. Chesh and I have done our homework on this. It's up to you now to do your own.

True. With a name like him, how can you not trust?

 

[Buckwheat]

Bite reports here are such a small handful that they represent a grain of sand on a beach. They still do not show real evidence on this subject other than by a very few compared to the many arachnid keepers worldwide. Who are the Arachnologists of which you speak of?

Additionally, "may" does not present anything really either. In the end, you chose to believe what you want to believe. As for the fact that I don't know what I'm talking about.. my dad has kept arachnids, specifically tarantulas for over 30 years. Way before all this here. I've kept them for a bit over 12 years myself. We're an arachnid family if ever there was one. I think that qualifies us as knowledgeable in many respects.My dad also communicates with Stan Schultz among others and I think Stan would agree that most if not all the tarantulas currently known of, or kept as "pets" are not generally considered harmful unless you already have associated medical issues, known or unknown. I think that qualifies us as knowledgeable in many respects. My dad also just returned from Costa Rica where him and two friends spent an entire week in the bush on the ground. According to recent communications with Schultz, he may have even discovered a previously unknown species to current science.

This is not to ring our bell but to stimulate information here concerning what is real truths and what are unknown or unproven statements. This is what allows others to make up their own minds as to what is fact and what is unproven facts. I hope it helps someone to make up their own minds.

 

[cacoseraph]

Until it is shown otherwise there is no real danger to us as hobbyists and keepers of tarantulas other than the possible mechanical injury from a bite of the larger species which can simply be treated as any other puncture wound.

er... your posts don't exhibit much reading behind them. there is decent structure so i am not going to say they are completely stupid... but damn dude... seriously

hobby books, forums, and mailing lists are full of reports of people... some of whom are quite well educated, detailing agonizing pain from a variety of tarantula bites... most of which are old worlders. these examples of REAL LIFE EVENTS clearly demonstrate that there is more than mechanical damage occuring here. combine that with the handful of readily accesible lit regarding studies of toxic components of venom and you are placed well and square in the middle of lala-land

further there are ld50 values and other toxicity trial data out there if you look... forwhatever such things are worth

the hobby needs yabbos saying all tarantulas are utterly harmless except for some mechanical damage exactly as much as it needs yabbos telling everyone that tarantulas are deadly, evil, and can jump 6 feet

 

[Stylopidae]

Bite reports here are such a small handful that they represent a grain of sand on a beach. They still do not show real evidence on this subject other than by a very few compared to the many arachnid keepers worldwide. Who are the Arachnologists of which you speak of?

Additionally, "may" does not present anything really either. In the end, you chose to believe what you want to believe. As for the fact that I don't know what I'm talking about.. my dad has kept arachnids, specifically tarantulas for over 30 years. Way before all this here. I've kept them for a bit over 12 years myself.

I took the courtesy of deleting all irrelevant information from your post...which was more than half the post.

As for what proof I have? One of the people in the bite reports (Becca81) and I have met in person. She has been bitten by a variety of different tarantulas and this (according to her) was the worst bite she has ever had. We talked about bites...symptoms, what exactly happened to get bitten...etc. This is not a case of venom sensitivity.

Furthermore, I know people who have been bitten by a variety different species and they all say that OW spiders have more severe symptoms than NW when not referring to dry bites.

Quite frankly, Buckwheat...YOU are the only one who has said that the bites of NW and OW tarantulas are the exact same.

So...yeah. All the dealers I've spoken to, the REAL experts, all the keepers I've spoken to, and all the people who have actually been bitten are completely wrong.

The samples on this bite report forums match up almost exactly with essentially all other envenomation reports I've ever read.

I am studying to be an entomologist (with a minor in evolutionary biology) and I have a habit of reading between one and four hours of peer-reviewed journal articles per day. Everything I've read backs up my statements.

You are arguing against essentially everything and everyone out there. Post evidence to back your claims.

Back when I used to post on paintball forums, we would have newbies come in and lie about their experience to gain respect...even claim they played with professional teams. It never worked because everyone could see right through them. Their information was rarely correct.

I think this is essentially the same thing.

I don't have my copy of the tarantula keeper's guide handy right now, but I'll be checking it later tonight because I know it says some stuff on venom (not too sure what, though).

However, there is one way I can call your bluff. Stan Schultz actually posts on here, so I am going to PM him a link to this thread and see what he says.

 

[Brettus]

Bite reports here are such a small handful that they represent a grain of sand on a beach. They still do not show real evidence on this subject other than by a very few compared to the many arachnid keepers worldwide.

I have trouble seeing what you are arguing here. By mentioning the bite reports and trying to dismiss them, you are implicitly recognising that they exist and some bear evidence of medically signifcant bites from OW species. If the bite reports were of a venomous snake, on which there was no formal scientific reporting, would you also dismiss the evidence of those bit? You ask others to proffer evidence proving that OW have more signifcant venom, without introducing any evdence of your own to back your position.

Not to sound hostile or anything, just trying to be logical

 

[whitehaze2008]

Dude listen...
it may not be listed in the world record book.....but i have spoken with people who raise tarantula's for a living and sell tarantulas for a living and have been bitten by pokies.
The result is serious. I will not keep them for this reason alone.
The end result of MOST cases is fever, head ache, pain, and even localized paralysis. Combined with vomiting.
Thats a HELL of alot worse than any brachy or avic would give you.

 

[Buggzter]

Buck, I'm curious: What sort of evidence are you looking for to prove/disprove that OW bites are or are not worse than NW bites? Just curious. It's alot like the religious discussions - people need SO MUCH EVIDENCE to believe something, or to change their opinions. Sometimes, though, no amount of "evidence" will change someone's mind (either because they don't WANT to change their mind, or they feel that other evidence contrary is still too strong, or whatever). I am just wondering your thought process on this matter.