High altitude worries for arboreal species.

[Alhazred]

I'm getting my first T soon, so far I've narrowed it down to something from the Avicularia family A.Metallica or A.versicolor specifically. First post here on these boards too.

I'll be getting the T after i move into my dorm in Denver, and concerned it will be far too dry for an arboreal humid loving species. Any advice? It does get fairly cold in my room during the winter too. Enough to put on a hoodie/sweatshirt inside. Both things that I would be concerned if an arboreal species could handle well. Any advice?

 

[web eviction]

Buy a space heater and don't forget about its water dish

 

[MarkmD]

Yeah exactly as said above.

I never use heat mats they cost to much and take ages to heat up, a decent fan/space heater will do just fine, save money and ur Ts will be just fine as it heats the entire room, and have a propreate sized water dish/tall enclosure/substrate/and hide n ull be fine.

welcome to the hobby, and get ready to own more.

 

[lunashimmer]

Welcome! You will soon learn that people here are excellent at answering any and all questions you'll come up with.

Web eviction's advice is good, however, having lived in dorms before, space heaters might not be allowed. In that case, perhaps a heat mat, under one side and one side only of the container, might be a good idea. I know someone will correct me if that's not the case.

Also, are you planning on getting a sling, juvie or adult? Heat mats should never be used with slings--they can dry up in minutes--and should be used with caution with juvies and adults.

As far as the humidity levels, mist every day without fail and keep a full water dish. I have to fill water dishes every 3 days or so because of the a/c running constantly down here in hot FL.

Good luck in school and with your T!

 

[Nikki1984]

Both good choices and welcome! I'm at 5,600 ft and it is DRY out here. My Avics do just fine. I personally keep the soil moist and provide a water dish for the larger ones. I use a small space heater in the winter and keep the temp comfortable not toasty. They are much hardier than given credit for and a great genus as well! You should fall in love quickly.

 

[Alhazred]

Woot so helpful so quickly! @luna: ill be getting a sling .5-.75~, ordering from an online vendor, jamies tarantulas. The enclosure im also ordering is as follows: Arboreal Spiderling kit measures 2 1/4" square x 4 1/4" tall. It comes with the following!
-Cube with 1" vent
-Cocofiber substrate
-Tree moss
-Corkbark
-Silk plant
I think ill opt in for a small heating pad placed close enough for the radiant heat to help out in the winter, but not before its well past 2.5 inches. Merely guessing from research. No space heaters are allowed in my dorm :\

 

[MarkmD]

I forgot to give a little advice on avicularia species,
Firstly they are cute, fast moveing,mostly docile,hardy and very nice coloration with all of the avics, they are best in an aproprate sized enclosure you can use plastic or glass aslong as u have good ventelation holes.
Substrate can be coco husk or exo-tera brick/peat, most are the same thing, (Don't use sand). The hide can be a plastic plant, cork-bark or a mix of both, if its a sling/ small juvenile then mist the side of the enclosure a fue times a week, if adult then a water dish will do (fresh water).
Feed on a range of live food aproprate to size of the T, crickets,locusts,meal/super worms and others.

Hope that helps a bit, Good luck.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, here is how I keep my 2 Avicularia avicularia's.
Had them for around 2 years now from 2nd instar slings.
As slings I kept them in small deli cups and misted often. When they hit the 4cm mark I moved them to the enclosure pictured below. I keep the enclosure bone dry and mist once every 2 months or so or if I can see they are about to moult. When I mist I just put some water on the webbing so that they can drink off of it. I also don't use artificial heating for their enclosures in the winter, so the temp drops to around 15 degrees celcius.
Obviously this would not work for everybody, but seems to work great in my circumstances.
Here is a pic of their enclosure:

 

[Alhazred]

I was under the impression that avic's were more for humidity then the lack thereof. Or is their tolerance to humidity that variable?

 

[Thistles]

Most adult tarantulas (not swamp spiders) can tolerate very low humidity as adults provided you offer a water dish. The slings need the humidity kept up, though. Avics do come from a place with high humidity, but they have a mostly watertight exoskeleton, so you don't have to worry about finding a tarantula raisin if you keep them dry.

 

[Storm76]

I was under the impression that avic's were more for humidity then the lack thereof. Or is their tolerance to humidity that variable?

There has been some success with some species to "tune" them into adapting to more arid enviroments like Ceratogyrus proves up there. However, I'd suggest to NOT do that to a sling as their exoskeletons are not hardened enough to keep enough moisture inside to ensure their survival! You can, over the course of their life when growing up, get them to adapt, but as slings keep them with adequate humidity and good ventilation.

 

[Alhazred]

Oh wow. Thats really cool, i didnt know T's could be so adaptable. It sounds like it would only work one way however, dont species from more arid regions, IE Grammastolla genus despise water with a passion?

 

[MarkmD]

Thayr is alot of Good info so far,

As said above avics and other Ts they can adapt to different situations ie water,humidity levs,heat source/tempreture,substrate type and other factors.
I think that's one of the best things about the T keepin hobby, you make some mistakes and learn along the way with OW and NW Ts, but my main piont is almost everyone has different ways of keeping the same and other species of Ts and they survive everyones way (most of the time).
sorry ev one for rambling on, just didn't relise how many ways you can keep Ts makes me say that Ts are not just (Hardy) but alot (smarter) than we give credit for as they did survive a metior strike 65million+ years ago and adapted as common house spiders to the Ts in the pet trade OW and NW on every place town/city forest/desert scrubland that exists in the world, maybe except the (Artic) as not sure.

but thay are cute little buggers lol.

 

[Storm76]

Oh wow. Thats really cool, i didnt know T's could be so adaptable. It sounds like it would only work one way however, dont species from more arid regions, IE Grammastolla genus despise water with a passion?

Regarding arid species kept more moist:
There are people out there who keep even Brachys or Grammostolas pretty damp, but as I said to Stan lately, I -personally- wouldn't do it. Reason is simply that you can try to (by keeping half substrate moist, the other dry) but frankly? What for? The T will either go up the walls, because of as you said despising wet substrate, or plain simply stay on the dry part - or get accustomed to it.
Usually, this stuff is mainly done with species that generally need more moisture and people keep them more on the dry side. I'm assuming one of the main reasons is simply that it does prevent mites to get a foothold in the tank (as those need moist substrate to breed / live in). My Avics from 2.25-2.5" and up get a waterbottle cap with water, a one time spray in their webbing every other week and else are totally dry. No problems with that so far.

Just my personal opinion here

 

[Alhazred]

Hurray you're all so helpful! Thank you for the input! I'm so excited to get my first T. :biggrin:

 

[Stan Schultz]

I'm getting my first T soon, ...

[SIZE=+1]BINGO! YOU SAID THE MAGIC WORDS![/size]​

So, this is going to be your first tarantula. Congratulations! In any case, to make sure that you're starting out on the right foot and have been introduced to all the basic issues, I'm going to begin with my soon-to-be-world-notorious NEWBIE INTRODUCTION. If I'm mistaken, I apologize. But, even if you aren't a newbie I suggest that you read through it for review. (I just LUVS doing this!) Please stand by while I load the canned message.

[size=+1]HEY PEOPLE! WE'VE GOT ANOTHER NEWBIE HERE![/SIZE]​

Cue the mariachis, the confetti, and the clowns. Let's start the party!

Alhazred, please don't be offended! I've been messing with tarantulas longer than most people on this forum have been alive, and I still consider myself a newbie. I'm just having a little fun with you.

:biggrin:


Okay, let's get down to business. First, the pleasantries:

[SIZE=+1]"Welcome to the hobby!"

"Welcome to these forums!"[/size]


Now, to get you started on the right foot I urge you to read the following webpages.

Stan's Rant - A little initial boost in the right direction.
BE SURE TO READ AND HEED THE WARNINGS! They'll save you a bundle of cash and maybe a few dead tarantulas!
BE SURE TO READ THE BOOKS! The books will not only answer all your questions, but will also answer all the questions you hadn't thought to ask!

Myths, Misconceptions, and Mistakes Perpetuated by Tarantula Enthusiasts - A growing list of bad information in the hobby. Be sure to explore all the links.

Avicularia spend almost all their time at the top of their containers, so substrate is only of secondary importance with them as adults. However, you should read Substrate anyway for at least the background. In addition, there as a recent thread that you might also find very interesting. Visit Is coco fiber good substrate for the avicularia sp. ?.

Additional Thoughts:

Good Starting Philosophy:
Most newbies start out trying to make tarantula care as complicated as possible, fretting over all sorts of silly things. For the beginner at least, and for most of us experienced aficionados as well, the best philosophy is, SIMPLE IS BETTER! As long as it supplies the basic necessities, the simpler your tarantula's cage is, the less there is to go wrong.

The Search Function:
Don't take this as a criticism, but if you don't already know about it, please learn to use the Search function at the top of the page. It'll save us all a lot of time and effort. Most novices and even many seasoned enthusiasts fail to appreciate that 95+% of all tarantula issues have already been addressed, sometimes ad nauseam, on these forums. All you need do is look for the discussions.

A Basic Operating Principle:
If you can't find an answer to your concern using the Search function (after all, search engines are far from perfect), by all means ask us. Remember,

"The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask."
"And, dumb questions are always easier to deal with than dumb mistakes!"


Fire away! "We aims to please."


Also, has no one told you?

[size=+2]THE TARANTULA KEEPER'S LAMENT

Like those potato chips,

you can't have just one!


You've been warned![/size]

(And, we offer a tip of the ol' hat and our profound thanks to the Frito-Lay Company for institutionalizing the progenitor of this little joke.)​

Visit the webpages. Read the warnings. Read the books. Watch these forums. Do the searches.

DON'T DO ANYTHING ANYBODY TELLS YOU UNLESS ITS CONFIRMED IN ONE OF THOSE BOOKS, OR WE CONFIRM IT HERE!

IGNORE THE !@#$%! CARE SHEETS!

Then, get back to us with any concerns you may have. We're here to help.

Again, you need to read, READ, READ!

Lastly, it would help a lot if you would post several photos of your tarantula from several different angles, and several photos of its cage from several different angles. A few cell phones work okay, but most can't focus well enough, and proper focus is very important. If at all possible use a better camera. Maybe borrow one from a family member or friend? A picture is worth 1000 words! Besides, "We LUVS pichers!"


End Canned Message

... so far I've narrowed it down to something from the Avicularia family A.Metallica or A.versicolor specifically. ...

Although many will object, my impression is that A.versicolor is a little less hardy than A. metallica. That doesn't necessarily mean that you shouldn't get one, though. What it does mean is that if it doesn't make it, don't give up entirely. Either try a different species or try a second A.versicolor.

Also, it's a good idea to get three or more at a time if you can afford it. Female tarantulas are preferable as pets because of their generally more laid back personalities, and the fact that they live longer, often much longer than their brothers. Getting three provides you with 7 out of 8 chances of getting at least one female. And, because of the economy of scale, three is seldom significantly more expensive to care for than just one. What do you do with the ones you don't want? Sell them to your dormitory mates, or advertise them here.

... I'll be getting the T after i move into my dorm in Denver, and concerned it will be far too dry for an arboreal humid loving species. Any advice? It does get fairly cold in my room during the winter too. Enough to put on a hoodie/sweatshirt inside. Both things that I would be concerned if an arboreal species could handle well. Any advice?

The environment in the container is only distantly related to the environment that surrounds it. That's why we keep them in containers apart from the space we live in. And, with only a little engineering effort you should be able to arrange for some sort of auxiliary heat and properly adjust any humidity requirements to supplement that which you find in your dormitory room.

If conditions are severe enough to warrant it, consider making a small constant environment chamber in which to keep the baby tarantula. Basically, you would need some source of heat. That could be something as low tech as a low wattage candelabra lamp. And, you would need something to adjust the voltage to the lamp to control it's operating temperature. Consider a low wattage dimmer switch similar to what you'd use in your dining room for mood lighting. Lastly, you should install some sort of thermostat that will prevent the whole thing from getting too hot in case there's a sudden warm, fall or spring day. All three of these must be wired in series with electrical wire of sufficient weight to carry the required currents. And all electrical connections must be made absolutely fool proof so as not to break, become uncoupled or short out. The last thing you want is to become known as the one who burned the dormitory down!

I am not an electrician, so I can't offer you any further advice, but a bright young student should be able to figure the details out for themselves, and know where to get help from competent people to do a nice, neat, safe job.

I offer you this photo and a thought. It's of a tarantula eggsac incubator that I constructed several years ago. While it was used specifically to hatch tarantula eggs, and did a great job, it was really nothing more than a constant environment chamber subverted to a specific project, hatching tarantula eggs. With only a few changes in design it should also work just fine for maintaining the babies in unfavorable conditions. (Click or right-click the thumbnail to see a larger image. Click that larger image to see one that is full sized version.)


(The McKee-Schultz-Fostaty-Schultz Mechanical Mom.)

Read The use of a reptile incubator for your tarantula egg sacs for some further background.

If you're interested in building something like this before leaving for school, get back to me ASAP at schultz@ucalgary.ca, NOT via PM on this forum. In fact, do so anyway right now! As soon as I get your E-mail I'll respond.

MORE INFO:
ASAP, you need to read the following 2 webpages:

Temperature...
Relative Humidity...

Then taking care of tarantulas in general and babies in particular is described in great detail in several of the books suggested in Stan's Rant. Read them at your earliest available opportunity.

Then, here I insert a short essay that is destined to become it's own webpage as soon as I can find the time. Consider this the beta version.

CAVEATS: Note that the following rules of thumb apply to nearly all tarantulas except a few obligate swamp dwellers, and to the arboreal species, and those are addressed towards the bottom.

BABY TARANTULAS: Those younger tarantulas with a diagonal leg span (DLS) of about 1.5" (3.8 cm) or less should be kept in a relatively closed container that heavily restricts ventilation. The substrate should be kept slightly damp. All this maintains a constant, elevated (but not excessive) humidity. Do not mist; instead, reread the last few sentences carefully. Do not spend a lot of time, energy, effort, or money on fancy containers. Like humanoid babies, these will outgrow their containers soon, thereby wasting all your finest efforts over and over again.

SPIDERLINGS TO ADULTS: Those younger tarantulas with a DLS of about 2" (5 cm) and larger should be kept in cages with dry substrate and supplied a water dish with clean water. Keep almost all of these as arid species. (See the exceptions below.)

TWEENS: Those tarantulas BETWEEN the aforementioned two sizes should be gradually acclimatized to a dry cage over a period of 2 or 3 molts. Gradually allow the container/cage to dry out, but be very sure to supply a water dish with clean water. You're gradually removing the higher humidity and substituting a water dish as the primary water source. In response, the tarantula develops a thicker, more impervious waxy layer to prevent excessive water loss from its body. All it needs is a little time to adjust.

Note that many tarantulas from semi-arid and arid places like the American Great Plains and the Kalahari Desert can make this transition much earlier in life than these recommended times. But, it does them no harm to wait a little longer either.

SWAMP DWELLERS: These are tarantulas like the species of Theraphosa, Ephebopus, Hysterocrates, Megaphobema, and a few others. These do not have the impervious, water retentive exoskeletons of the other tarantulas and require a constant, high humidity. Keep these in "baby" style cages for their entire lives, adjusting for increased size of course.

Enthusiasts are discovering that wild caught "swampers" will gradually develop a somewhat greater resistance to slightly drier conditions if the transition is done slowly and over an extended period of time. And, those swampers that are bred in captivity fare much better and can tolerate drier cages much better than their wild caught brethren.

ARBOREALS: Wild caught arboreals (assumed to be adults), particularly members of the genus Avicularia often fare poorly when first brought into captivity, partly because of "shipping shock" and partly because of the sudden change in environmental conditions. To combat this, they should be initially set up and cared for as babies for the first few weeks (initial recovery period), then quickly switched to a "Tweens" care regimen (secondary acclimatization period) for the first one or two molts. Thereafter keep them as adult, arid tarantulas but maintain a slightly elevated humidity by slightly restricting ventilation. Always supply them a water dish. (In the middle of the night as they hunt for food they'll pussyfoot down to the water dish and take a sip. And being sound asleep, you'll never, EVER know it happened!)

Captive bred arboreals (assumed to be babies or very young spiderlings) usually do not suffer the acclimatization problems that the wild caught ones do, but sometimes suffer shipping shock from bad treatment during transportation. When first received they should be kept as babies (see above) for two or three weeks, then they can be quickly changed over to whatever care regimen is appropriate according to the schedule given here, depending on their size and age.

Lastly, do not be too quick to assume that your baby Avicularia absolutely needs the extra molly-coddling. For instance, if the temperature in your room drops into the 60s F at night, but returns to the 70s during the day, it'll do just fine without the extra support. And of course, you really won't know for sure what conditions will be like until you move into your room.

There! I've done enough damage. Best of luck.

YOU NEEDS TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
Your little 8-legged buddies are going to be giving you spot quizzes daily!

:laugh:

---------- Post added 08-24-2012 at 09:14 PM ----------

Oh wow. Thats really cool, i didnt know T's could be so adaptable. It sounds like it would only work one way however, dont species from more arid regions, IE Grammastolla genus despise water with a passion?

Not necessarily "with a passion." They drink water when thirsty, for instance, and there are some that live in fairly normal situations where the soil is dampened by rain or fogs. As far as I know, only the desert species (e.g., G. rosea and maybe G. porteri) really don't care for damp substrate. We keep the others in a arid cages because that's the easiest way to prevent disease and the infestation of varmints.

Enjoy your little 8-legged survivor!

 

[Alhazred]

Holy crap O.O. I dont think ive ever been to a forum before that was this helpful! I will take all that into account when starting, ive been debating about getting a few at one time, but thanks to your words about gaining a female, i think i may just do so. I just love how a.versi's look when theyre mature, the vibrant crimson and purple is too good to pass up. Thanks again for the welcome, and all the help.

 

[Stan Schultz]

Holy crap O.O. I dont think ive ever been to a forum before that was this helpful! I will take all that into account when starting, ive been debating about getting a few at one time, but thanks to your words about gaining a female, i think i may just do so. I just love how a.versi's look when theyre mature, the vibrant crimson and purple is too good to pass up. Thanks again for the welcome, and all the help.

If you like technicolor tarantulas, consider the greenbottle blue, Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens.

A classic arid species when adult. Fairly hardy. Easy to care for. Not terribly handleable, but some of us do it anyway. (1) Don't possess a "medically significant" bite. Here are some links about them.

Green Bottle Blue feeding

Rick C. West in Paraguaná, Venezuela looking for GBBs

Paraguaná xeric scrubland (home of the GBB)


Enjoy your little 8-legged Technicolor creature feature!


(1) Marguerite: "Can these be handled?"

Stan: "Sure. I don't know why not."

Marguerite (To a TV camera): "That was bite #19!"

:biggrin: