Help, please. Black widows taking over my home with 7 month old baby and cat!

[The Snark]

WAIT A DARN MINUTE! Black widows taking over my home with 7 month old baby and cat!
Uhhhhhhhhh, unless your cat is a member of the vegetable kingdom, most of your problem is solved. For major pest control near ground level, it's really hard to beat a curious feline and they be basically immune to spider bites (though not the other way around). Our little -MAJOR LOAD OF EXPLETIVES DELETED- fuzzball slaughtered 2 lovely and lively huntsman last night before we could get off our rumps and grab the little BLEEP!

 

[lancej]

Using Wikipedia for anything other than entertainment is usually pointless. I completely agree with Ciphor on ID, as well as his point on the OP's passive aggressive attitude. I can understand concern about her child, but I can't understand why she would come here to ask expertise, and then shoot it down with references to Wikipedia of all things. It sounds to me like she is either trying to passively troll, just looking for an excuse to be hysterical, or is trying to get expert advice on her living conditions for a lawsuit against her landlord. The spiders have been ID'ed. Case closed.

 

[Anonymity82]

Im guessing they're brown widows, which are extirpating the western black widow from much of southern california, due to their huge brood sizes, and the fact that both mactans and geometricus can hybridize. In fact, I can usually only find L. mactans in wilderness areas, or away from houses nowadays.

steatoda and parasteatoda webs are far more delicate than a widow's webbing, which is very tough.

L. mactans in SoCal?

---------- Post added 07-30-2013 at 02:24 PM ----------

I'm sorry, but I can conceptually understand why you would keep one as a pet but I don't really get it.

Because we understand them instead of fear them. At least that is how ! see it. I would worry too if I had a baby and a bunch of supposed black widows in the house but what concerns me more are the mice. Those little buggers are far more dangerous to your child and yourself IMO. You'll never likely catch one or get bit but the diseases they can harbor and their ability to over run a home is far more fearsome to me.

---------- Post added 07-30-2013 at 02:29 PM ----------

That spider is a Steatoda grossa - False Black Widow. Where these guys exist, seldom do real widows as S. grossa will prey on them quite easily. It is a pretty common spider inside and outside of homes. Widows are far more common outside of homes and don't like to live in small crawl spaces like these guys do.

The legs are far to short for a widow, if you were wondering how I can rule it out.

This was my first thought as well but do not have your expertise and didn't feel comfortable making the ID! Thanks!

I actually just found a couple of youngin's in a bathroom we haven't used in awhile with crickets in their webs. Crickets I had no idea escaped lol. Accidentally squished one though :/. I don't think these are the ones I released on my walls because it's been some time and those would be close to being, if not already, adults.

---------- Post added 07-30-2013 at 02:58 PM ----------

The pic on wiki is a male S. grossa anyway. Much smaller and more slender. I've had a few hatch out of sacs in my cup and refuse to leave. I have since released any that do not want to leave the tiny little stinky Starbuck's cup. I leave the top off every time another sac releases babies (not all have, some have never come to be for one reason or another) in my garage over night as been advised to me from the experts, such as Ciphor and The Snark (amongst others) and 95% leave the nest. If they don't I blow a little air in there and stir them up or spray a little water annoying them and just come back later. But there's always a couple who don't want to go. Right now I have a juvenile female hiding in a straw that wont leave! It's okay, she can stay. I have yet to see the big momma eat anyone or any others eat each other just as Ciphor told me they wouldn't, unless starved from food and water, over a year ago. The cup does stink though. There's a dead cricket in there I just can't find, you'd think they would want to leave now wouldn't ya? Nope, nobody wants to go. I do plan to rehouse them though... of course she has a very dark sac about to pop out some babies so I might have to wait a couple of weeks.

Honeybee, I just realized while writing this why we (or at least I) keep them. Because they are beautiful, interesting, striking, creatures that are far from the norm (I still love my normal pets like the gecko/dog/cat/hamster/fish). Their habits amaze me. Their hardiness and ease of care is also a factor. Price as well, no vet visits, many species you can just find and bring in to study. Another pet's cage that needs to be cleaned out ever couple of weeks or water changed every other day or walked while I pick up their dookie twice a day or scoop the box or give meds, apply topical, feed, watch parameters etc... is not as appealing to me as something I can place in a small container while I save it from predation and fill their bellies with gut loaded happiness (not all species are happy like this by I do believe that my cobweb builders thoroughly enjoy their small homes and over feeding, as well as my two little trap doors).

---------- Post added 07-30-2013 at 03:00 PM ----------

WAIT A DARN MINUTE! Black widows taking over my home with 7 month old baby and cat!
Uhhhhhhhhh, unless your cat is a member of the vegetable kingdom, most of your problem is solved. For major pest control near ground level, it's really hard to beat a curious feline and they be basically immune to spider bites (though not the other way around). Our little -MAJOR LOAD OF EXPLETIVES DELETED- fuzzball slaughtered 2 lovely and lively huntsman last night before we could get off our rumps and grab the little BLEEP!

After reading your many educational, comical and just over all very well written posts/comments I do hope you're a writer. And if so, I would like a copy of that book! I don't care what it's about.

 

[honeybee]

Ciphor: I DO appreciate the expertise and time. However, I was not shooting down your IDs. All of my subsequent posts were for clarification and additional information to my original post in case the new info - which you didn't have to help make the original ID - would change your mind. I have been known to talk an awful lot...but not describe things well without engaging in discussion. *wink*

I brought up Wikipedia to explain that what I was looking at in my apartment didn't match the Wikipedia photo to add to the discussion. I did google stetoda grossa because of this discussion thread. All of you were bringing up interesting points and I was learning about these spiders and the differences between them. I wanted to know more and googled. That should be a compliment to you...not an insult. I have also been sharing the info I have learned from here with my boyfriend, his family, and some friends. So this discussion with you experts is helping to disseminate better info to uninformed folks.

However, I can see where the way I said things would be offensive and seen to be that I was placing more emphasis on the info from Wikipedia over the info on here. I am not doing that but I could see how it sounded that way. I am a stranger to your world and I came in bumbling and breaking social graces.

Anyway, I read this thread to my boyfriend and he said I cannot get what I am truly looking for online (or elsewhere)...which is 100% protection for my family. They are my world.

 

[Ciphor]

Ciphor: I DO appreciate the expertise and time. However, I was not shooting down your IDs. All of my subsequent posts were for clarification and additional information to my original post in case the new info - which you didn't have to help make the original ID - would change your mind. I have been known to talk an awful lot...but not describe things well without engaging in discussion. *wink*

I brought up Wikipedia to explain that what I was looking at in my apartment didn't match the Wikipedia photo to add to the discussion. I did google stetoda grossa because of this discussion thread. All of you were bringing up interesting points and I was learning about these spiders and the differences between them. I wanted to know more and googled. That should be a compliment to you...not an insult. I have also been sharing the info I have learned from here with my boyfriend, his family, and some friends. So this discussion with you experts is helping to disseminate better info to uninformed folks.

However, I can see where the way I said things would be offensive and seen to be that I was placing more emphasis on the info from Wikipedia over the info on here. I am not doing that but I could see how it sounded that way. I am a stranger to your world and I came in bumbling and breaking social graces.

Anyway, I read this thread to my boyfriend and he said I cannot get what I am truly looking for online (or elsewhere)...which is 100% protection for my family. They are my world.

Fair enough, I can respect that. I word things poorly myself, ask anyone here

Well please if you trust anything trust this. Your home has the best pest control god could create to protect you and your family, and believe it or not it is those little black spiders. They hide and run from you, avoiding contact with you and your family at all costs, and there bite is not so bad if it came down to it (think bee sting); they keep the real bad ones away (black widows, ticks, mites, kissing bugs, mosquito, etc.). I have kids myself, so I understand your desire to protect them. My kids all played and and ran around my basement every day, surrounded by literally dozens of this spider, out in the open, babies hatching by window, webs poking out under the couch and entertainment center, webs behind their toy box with a spider poking out, they named the one behind toy box poopie (no idea why lol) and even fed her crickets from time to time. No one ever got bit... by anything. No bug bites, no fly's buzzing around in the summer. No nothing... just the silent little spiders keeping everything else out.

I know that is not for everyone, I love all life and respect it, even the ticks and mites. My kids raised around a room pact full of jars and tupperwares full of spiders, hiking trips that involved a lot of log and rock flipping with lots of collection viles; they learned to respect life too. You truly pass on a lot to your kids, a fear or respect of spiders is just one of the things you pass on. My daughter does love to pick up spiders at school and watch the other kids run in fear. Some how she is still a popular girl, no idea how lol.

Here is a video of one of the Steatoda grossa living in the basement in the belly of a Buddha statue, kids named her Buddha bro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6arnbgyViBY That large pile of crap under the statues belly is all the stuff this spider caught and eats. Just one spider. Think about it. Would you rather have the one spider, that you know where she hides (and she does hide) and only comes out to kill stuff for you? Or would you rather have that pile of varies bugs roaming around your house at night looking for a snack (your blood).

 

[honeybee]

Njnolan1: I can see better why you keep these guys as pets. But you haven't made me a convert!!!

Anyone: How does the steatoda grossa kill a widow if they have shorter legs and less potent venom? Also, from my lame 10 minutes of googling, I read they can have medically significant bites. Especially if a person has an allergy to the venom. Does anyone know if the s. grossa venom is related to the widow venom (chemically, structurally, human body response)? Basically, do you think a bite from s. grossa be likely to harm my boyfriend, knowing he had a severe reaction from a widow bite?

And why the heck doesn't the s. grossa wear convenient signs on their bellies (as they hang upside down) that says, "don't kill me, I eat the darn things you are freaked out about"!?!

I have also watched a YouTube video of what the uploader claims to be is a daddy long leg spider capturing a widow. Do they do this? If so, it seems to make sense to me to use daddy long legs as a natural widow treatment. Or is this a bad idea? *shrug*

 

[Ciphor]

Njnolan1: I can see better why you keep these guys as pets. But you haven't made me a convert!!!

Anyone: How does the steatoda grossa kill a widow if they have shorter legs and less potent venom? Also, from my lame 10 minutes of googling, I read they can have medically significant bites. Especially if a person has an allergy to the venom. Does anyone know if the s. grossa venom is related to the widow venom (chemically, structurally, human body response)? Basically, do you think a bite from s. grossa be likely to harm my boyfriend, knowing he had a severe reaction from a widow bite?

And why the heck doesn't the s. grossa wear convenient signs on their bellies (as they hang upside down) that says, "don't kill me, I eat the darn things you are freaked out about"!?!

I have also watched a YouTube video of what the uploader claims to be is a daddy long leg spider capturing a widow. Do they do this? If so, it seems to make sense to me to use daddy long legs as a natural widow treatment. Or is this a bad idea? *shrug*

Steatoda kill widows with a more advanced hunting skill, and far more agility in a web. Widows are fat clumsy spiders and just cannot compete with the agility of these guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kEfo0qEbvw (skip to 29 minutes to see Steatoda grossa dominate a clumsy red back widow)

There are a lot of myths about spider venom unfortunately. Yes, some (very few) people have reported a painful (not life threatening) reaction to Steatoda bites. The UK media especially seems to enjoy demonizing these spiders simply because they are cousins of the widow, and look similar. Steatoda do not have a neurotoxin like widows. It is the impact to the neurological system that makes widows dangerous and potentially deadly (seldom if rarely ever deadly). Steatoda have insanely small fangs, that while they are still capable of delivering a bite to humans, there ability to deliver much venom in the bite is very poor. Steatoda when touched by people play dead, they know who we are, live with us, and know that biting us results in their death, so playing dead is their best bet to survive an encounter with humans. (here is one playing dead http://bugguide.net/node/view/359473/bgimage)

Daddy long legs are at the top of the food chain for house spiders and cobweb creators. The one spider they have trouble with tho, Steatoda grossa. Steatoda simply out breeds them. They will die 4 out of 5 times when they try to take out a daddy long legs, but they will eventually kill them all. They will kill their juvenile offspring, and let the old big ones die out. It is very hard for any other spider to establish where Steatoda grossa exist. They are very successful inside homes. Most people have them and don't know because they never see them.

 

[honeybee]

Interesting stuff! And it does help to ease my mind. Still will be careful...just in case boyfriend and/or daughter are allergic. Thanks!

 

[Ciphor]

Interesting stuff! And it does help to ease my mind. Still will be careful...just in case boyfriend and/or daughter are allergic. Thanks!

A note on that. From my limited experience in the medical side of venom; spider venom allergies are extraordinarily uncommon, and very few legitimate cases are on record. Doctors often are forced to make a speculation for the unexplained, and any number of things can cause a complication with a spider bite.

 

[Anonymity82]

Here's my girl. I've had her for over a year and she's supplied my home with many, many babies. I release most in the garage where I still find plenty of these guys hanging out. The second they sense I'm there they're gone! Quick little guys and girls.

Her color is a bit brighter due to the flash.

View attachment 119240

 

[Ciphor]

They really are amazing pest control. Very reliable.

 

[The Snark]

Njnolan1: I can see better why you keep these guys as pets. But you haven't made me a convert!!!

Anyone: How does the steatoda grossa kill a widow if they have shorter legs and less potent venom? Also, from my lame 10 minutes of googling, I read they can have medically significant bites. Especially if a person has an allergy to the venom. Does anyone know if the s. grossa venom is related to the widow venom (chemically, structurally, human body response)? Basically, do you think a bite from s. grossa be likely to harm my boyfriend, knowing he had a severe reaction from a widow bite?

And why the heck doesn't the s. grossa wear convenient signs on their bellies (as they hang upside down) that says, "don't kill me, I eat the darn things you are freaked out about"!?!

I have also watched a YouTube video of what the uploader claims to be is a daddy long leg spider capturing a widow. Do they do this? If so, it seems to make sense to me to use daddy long legs as a natural widow treatment. Or is this a bad idea? *shrug*

Someone somewhere needs to write up a paper on the widow's apex of evolution. Viewed unscientifically but objectively, the black widows are has beens. Future history and getting phased out. The toxins in their venom speak of a very ancient evolution that simply no longer applies to this day and age. If you check Widowman10's web site you will read it has a toxin specifically designed to kill animals the widows probably haven't come in contact with for several million years.
Then you have the clutz of the spider world, the Pholcidae, capably taking down widows and other much more robust spiders. If you want to test your true inner strength, sangfroid and tranquility level, watch a pholcid trying to wrangle a mosquito. Just imagine an 18 month old toddler trying to wrangle a sled trained malamute.
So OP, don't expect black and white. Things are relative and working themselves out. Your fears and concerns aren't realistic. Statistically speaking, you and yours stands a greater chance of getting severely ill from a bee or wasp sting than suffering a significant spider bite while living in a house infested by widows. Replacing the widows with steatoda moves the odds on out to you have a greater chance of getting struck by lightning than a major widow munch with clompycations.

 

[Smokehound714]

They really are amazing pest control. Very reliable.

You got that right.

They do tend to kill off wolf spiders, though, unfortunately..


Ever since the geometricus exploded in numbers, i rarely see roaches in my home, and when I do, they're almost always american cockroaches, which aren't really pests in the first place, IMO.

 

[The Snark]

Of greater concern than spiders or roaches: http://whatsinproducts.com/files/brands_pdf/19001249 MSDS Raid House Garden Bug Formula 7 081007.pdf

 

[Curious jay]

To Snark... I often watch the P. philangoides (sp?) try to catch gnats and mozzies whilst some are terrible at it (usually the larger ones) I find some have it down to a fine art often positioning themselves on the web area tht recieved the most light and patiently wait for any web contact and thy usually get them.

 

[spiderman5471]

Steatoda kill widows with a more advanced hunting skill, and far more agility in a web. Widows are fat clumsy spiders and just cannot compete with the agility of these guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kEfo0qEbvw (skip to 29 minutes to see Steatoda grossa dominate a clumsy red back widow)

There are a lot of myths about spider venom unfortunately. Yes, some (very few) people have reported a painful (not life threatening) reaction to Steatoda bites. The UK media especially seems to enjoy demonizing these spiders simply because they are cousins of the widow, and look similar. Steatoda do not have a neurotoxin like widows. It is the impact to the neurological system that makes widows dangerous and potentially deadly (seldom if rarely ever deadly). Steatoda have insanely small fangs, that while they are still capable of delivering a bite to humans, there ability to deliver much venom in the bite is very poor. Steatoda when touched by people play dead, they know who we are, live with us, and know that biting us results in their death, so playing dead is their best bet to survive an encounter with humans. (here is one playing dead http://bugguide.net/node/view/359473/bgimage)

Daddy long legs are at the top of the food chain for house spiders and cobweb creators. The one spider they have trouble with tho, Steatoda grossa. Steatoda simply out breeds them. They will die 4 out of 5 times when they try to take out a daddy long legs, but they will eventually kill them all. They will kill their juvenile offspring, and let the old big ones die out. It is very hard for any other spider to establish where Steatoda grossa exist. They are very successful inside homes. Most people have them and don't know because they never see them.

wrong cipher widows are very quick and have great agility in web but out of there web they are very clumsy hah i corrected you properly anyone agree or disagree with what i said lol

 

[Greenjewls]

I've lived with black widows my entire life. On an average day there would probably be a dozen or more of them on the outside of my house. Cool thing is they never come inside, seems they like the heat. They keep to the web and retreat if disturbed. I don't understand how someone would get bitten by one unless you tried to grab it out of its web... they are resistant to pesticides and even diatomaceous earth but they can be managed by smashing them or clearing out the webs daily to starve them if one had the energy to wage this fulltime war, but why? Ive honestly never even heard of anyone ever getting bit by one and they are extremely populous in AZ neighborhoods.