Gut loading with color enhancers?

[elyanalyous]

i said the slower grower in my opinion would be good, not for the color experiment, but to see if a diet high in anything would be bad for the t. i do know that we don't know enough about t's to know what does affect them inside.

and i have read every post, including the first one. my forum experiences are generally confusion free, its just the idea that natural food fed to natural prey of the t that i am having a hard time wrapping my mind around. how can "natural" be bad?

 

[cacoseraph]

i said the slower grower in my opinion would be good, not for the color experiment, but to see if a diet high in anything would be bad for the t. i do know that we don't know enough about t's to know what does affect them inside.

and i have read every post, including the first one. my forum experiences are generally confusion free, its just the idea that natural food fed to natural prey of the t that i am having a hard time wrapping my mind around. how can "natural" be bad?

natural means not synthetic. belladonna, mandrake, poison oak and ivy, stinging nettles, that horrendous tree with all the spikes in front of my work... all natural. i wouldn't particularily want to eat or rub against any of them

 

[eelnoob]

krills=brings out the orange/reds


spirulina=helps bring out the green/blue


both are natural and widely used in fish food

 

[elyanalyous]

i men tthe natural diet of the prey should be helthy from them no?

 

[cacoseraph]

i men tthe natural diet of the prey should be helthy from them no?

presumably, but that is not what this thread is about. this thread is about changing the feeder's natural "well balanced" diet to a natural "stacked" diet

 

[elyanalyous]

Lets start back at the beginning...

refraction AND reflection produce the apparent colors. addititives could just as easily change the nature of the exoskeleton to change it's refractive properties as change the underlying pigmentation layers.

unfortunately we just don't know enough about t nutrition to be able to make any statements about likelihood of overdosing. my problem with overdosing is that it could take YEARS to manifest. or render a t impotent. don't get me wrong, my instincts say that feeding feeders natural foods isn't likely to give rise to any problems, long or short term... but we for sure can't say that for sure

this is what i was reffering to. please can you help me understand your usage here. i understand that this thread is about feeding a stacked vs natural diet, but the above post was what i was curious about...

 

[Talkenlate04]

presumably, but that is not what this thread is about. this thread is about changing the feeder's natural "well balanced" diet to a natural "stacked" diet

Very well put I like that...... that is what is being done. No one is saying its not "Natural products" But I am saying its not natural...... Ugg this is getting confusing, just conduct the expierment and if something happens hurray.....

 

[cacoseraph]

Lets start back at the beginning...



this is what i was reffering to. please can you help me understand your usage here. i understand that this thread is about feeding a stacked vs natural diet, but the above post was what i was curious about...

ok, that bold part: basically we lack the knowledge to make any reasonably accurate predictions regarding tarantula nutrition impacting health... but my intuition, or adding up all the tiny pieces we do have, or my gut... tells me as long as the OP doesn't start feeding his feeders only habanero peppers that a tarantula can stand a fair bit of variation in their feeders' diet.

but in no way do i KNOW that... just a guess which might be worth less than flipping a coin

 

[elyanalyous]

thank you for explaining the bold part for me... that is what i thought you ment when you wrote it, i guess the wording got me all caught up.

 

[LeilaNami]

There was a post somewhere that fish flakes would contain too much phosphorous for inverts. I say, test it on the crickets then test it on the T. I don't think there would be any detrimental effect. Since some fish food tries to mimic what the fish eats in nature then there shouldn't be harmful elements right? However, while I don't disagree with the experiment, I do disagree using a protected T. I definately would go with an easy-to-breed, fast growing T. Besides, you want the short generations for the sake of seeing if the effects of the diet could be passed to the offspring.

 

[cacoseraph]

There was a post somewhere that fish flakes would contain too much phosphorous for inverts. I say, test it on the crickets then test it on the T. I don't think there would be any detrimental effect. Since some fish food tries to mimic what the fish eats in nature then there shouldn't be harmful elements right? However, while I don't disagree with the experiment, I do disagree using a protected T. I definately would go with an easy-to-breed, fast growing T. Besides, you want the short generations for the sake of seeing if the effects of the diet could be passed to the offspring.

if you are refering to the CITES listing of Brachypelma smithi, they are only "protected" from being shipped inter-country. even then, you can ship captive bred offspring inter-country if you fill out the appropriate paperwork. there are tens of thousands of smithi in the hobby (at least!) and they are in no danger of becoming extinct anytime soon.

 

[Mr_Baker4420]

so what you're really saying is that he shouldn't experiment on his tarantulas and that you should let all your go back into the wild? that really what you're saying isn't it. i mean, you wouldn't want to be hypocrit would you?

How do you figure that????
There is a big difference between a cow that wanders and eats grass, and a cow that get pumped full of hormones.......

Same with chickens, free range chickens are know for a fact to be heathier then those that never leave a cage and get the hormone treatment.

So by changing what is going into the food that is fed to the T you are changing its diet. It goes hand in hand there is no way around it.

BUt back to my original point.... what is the point of doing this with a CITIES species? WHy not use something more common? I am not saying dont do it, even though I personally dont think its going to do anything at all........ and he has one sling you have to have a control present to make this work.....
Just like any other test. But regardless I still think you are wasting your time. Its like trying to change a zebras stripes.

 

[Mr_Baker4420]

oh and you can change a zebras stripes. there are different variations and you can breed them out. look it up.

 

[prey]

crikey

Thanks, guys.
Being the original poster of this thread, I think its purpose has been almost, if not entirely & officially played out. I do, truly appreciate the heads-up things, including the phosphorus. It's, of course, very accociated with calcium and relavent minerals.
The most educational part of this thread, to me, has been how potentially unethical it is of me to deviate from feeding crickets anything other than the unanimously agreed upon cricket chow. I already, always did fine (for decades) by being somehwhat stranded out in the country and feeding crickets whatever varied diet I had available, including cereal (any), peanut butter, wheat germ, fish food, chick chow, oats, softened rice, local roadside veggies/fruits, garden items, powdered milk, hybiscis, nuts, and fresh flesh of select thread poster, etc.
The second most educational part of this thread has been that if I purchase four B. smithi slings, intent upon spoiling them & one day breeding them with specimens from (hopefully) ouside of the same bloodline (or should I say "hemolymph line), I'd better not use the word "experiment", even in regards to a situation possibly far better than many these babies might wind up in, otherwise.
Don't get me wrong -- definately thanks for all the helpful feedback. Technicolor crickets rule, lol.

 

[Talkenlate04]

so what you're really saying is that he shouldn't experiment on his tarantulas and that you should let all your go back into the wild? that really what you're saying isn't it. i mean, you wouldn't want to be hypocrit would you?

I am not sure I want to know how you drew that conclusion........... Did you read all the posts or just the word that jumped out at you?

 

[Talkenlate04]

Thanks, guys.
Being the original poster of this thread, I think its purpose has been almost, if not entirely & officially played out. I do, truly appreciate the heads-up things, including the phosphorus. It's, of course, very accociated with calcium and relavent minerals.
The most educational part of this thread, to me, has been how potentially unethical it is of me to deviate from feeding crickets anything other than the unanimously agreed upon cricket chow. I already, always did fine (for decades) by being somehwhat stranded out in the country and feeding crickets whatever varied diet I had available, including cereal (any), peanut butter, wheat germ, fish food, chick chow, oats, softened rice, local roadside veggies/fruits, garden items, powdered milk, hybiscis, nuts, and fresh flesh of select thread poster, etc.
The second most educational part of this thread has been that if I purchase four B. smithi slings, intent upon spoiling them & one day breeding them with specimens from (hopefully) ouside of the same bloodline (or should I say "hemolymph line), I'd better not use the word "experiment", even in regards to a situation possibly far better than many these babies might wind up in, otherwise.
Don't get me wrong -- definately thanks for all the helpful feedback. Technicolor crickets rule, lol.

Hey man Like I said go for it...it should be interesting......But ya dont take to much offense to things said on here, most of the time is arguing for arguings sake.

 

[funnylori]

Nutritional facts

Just as a side note, I have a jar of TetraMin tropical flakes (a brand I have known and trusted for my fish for many years) and a jar of Fluker Laboratories high calcium cricket feed (also a brand I have known and trusted for my cricket needs) these are the printed facts on the labels, not the ingredients and not the vitamines, just the basic facts:

TetraMin:
min crude protien 48.0%
min crude fat 8.0%
max crude fiber 2.0%
min phosphorus 1.0%

Fluker cricket feed:
min crude protien 20.0%
min crude fat 5.00%
max crude fiber 9.00%
min phosphorus 0.60%

You make the call. The ingredients on both lables are both very complex, but are of common compounds. Personally, I have tetras and one only eats brown flakes the other only eats the green ones, it hasnt made much of a difference. I feed my roaches a mix of fish flakes, rabbit pellets, cricket feed, and fresh veggies, but I am sure they still eat the cardboard egg cartons that I put in there for them to hide in. I wouldnt say anything is worse than that for a tarantula, but they dont seem to mind.

 

[Doezsha]

All I want to say is Good luck Prey, and that i always thought healthy feeders makes healthy animals. Ive kept reptiles for a great deal of my life and always gut loaded my crickets and mealworms, I'm just getting back into T's so the the question of gut loading my prey items for my T's has crossed my mind. Thank you all for the input about the different things that are good to use for cricket chow.

 

[prey]

results, already?

Please excuse my ignorance:
Okay, the crix are always on the pink side when I feed them a fish food diet high in red crustacean pigment (astaxanthene). My slings show up on the red side, as well, if for no other reason than being somewhat transparent. But, I got a G. rosea months ago (about 4") and it's also eaten the pink crix most of the time. It molted, and went from this:

to this:

Did this 4" spider mature into a drastically-more-colorful 4.5" color phase, or is it the astaxanthene ??
I understand the whole thing with the metallic, iridescent colors having, often, to do more with a sort of prismatic light interference than actual pigment, but...?

 

[titus]

I see no problem in feeding feeder animals color enhancing products. There have been many others that have done so and given proven results in reptiles from Leo's, corns, and even darts. I don't do it my-self but if you like give it a try.