German Tarantula Breeder, Sven Koppler, sentenced for smuggling tarantulas today

[Bill S]

This may be splitting hairs but the statement in the news about flesh eating bacteria was not a direct quote, just a statement by the writer that has been bookended by quotes from Rick West. I'm not saying that he did or didn't say it, just that we can't tell from this if he really said they are vectors for flesh eating bacteria.

The statements he made about the severity of urticating hairs and venoms were the ones I was referring to. We've got enough trouble trying to convince the public and the shipping companies that tarantulas are safe, and here this guy is making statements in the courts that they are highly dangerous. And he's doing so for no good purpose - the case was about the legallity of importing species on the CITES list, not about how dangerous the animals are.

It would be interesting to know where the idiocy about flesh-eating bacteria came from, but I'm not yet blaming West for that.

 

[flamesbane]

To all the people who keep asking about the US citizens who bought the tarantulas, it is just like drug busts. If you bust people who are buying drugs you aren't really gaining anything, more people will step in to fill the gaps. However if you bust the producers then you have stopped the supply, and it won't matter if people want to buy them because there isn't any to be bought (their logic anyway).

Point: Tarantulas = Cocaine

 

[mcluskyisms]

To all the people who keep asking about the US citizens who bought the tarantulas, it is just like drug busts. If you bust people who are buying drugs you aren't really gaining anything, more people will step in to fill the gaps. However if you bust the producers then you have stopped the supply, and it won't matter if people want to buy them because there isn't any to be bought (their logic anyway).

Point: Tarantulas = Cocaine

So what your saying is buying illegal drugs is ok and should go without punishment??? :?

 

[Fran]

Lets stick to facts and cut the propaganda, please. Dont make me throw up.

 

[flamesbane]

So what your saying is buying illegal drugs is ok and should go without punishment??? :?

No I'm saying drugs shouldn't be illegal and that...wait...what?

However if you bust the producers then you have stopped the supply, and it won't matter if people want to buy them because there isn't any to be bought (their logic anyway)

Oh yeah....

 

[mcluskyisms]

No I'm saying drugs shouldn't be illegal and that...wait...what?

Oh yeah....

Haha. Yeah, I actually read your post the first time...

Just don't understand your poor connotation in which you state tarantulas = cocaine...

 

[flamesbane]

Haha. Yeah, I actually read your post the first time...

Just don't understand your poor connotation in which you state tarantulas = cocaine...

I can go edit in "J/k" or "/sarcasm" if it helps.

Added by edit:

That seemed more rude after I re-read it. My point being that the government typically punishes suppliers and not consumers. (Drug dealers, prostitutes, child porn producers vs. consumers of their wares). I am not saying this is the best way to do things, but it does tend happen.

Tarantulas = Cocaine was just a joke.

Hope that clears things up!

 

[Comatose]

So to those who are ardently against any smuggling, I suppose you'll be giving away your P. metallica, subfusca, miranda, smithi, etc? I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but a lot of species, particularly the rarer ones, originated from smuggled stock. When the above species are extinct in the wild, I'll be happy that someone snagged enough to create a captive population.

And FWIW, we've been fighting a war on drug use for thirty years and gotten no where... if every single drug were suddenly treated like alcohol tomorrow it wouldn't be good, but it wouldn't be any worse than it is now.


Edit - Fran, personal opinions aside, are you ignoring my PM's? Would love to chat about some of your bugs

 

[mcluskyisms]

I can go edit in "J/k" or "/sarcasm" if it helps.

No, no no. Don't get me wrong, I think it was a really well thought out and intelligent point you tried to deliver. And they way in which you compare theraphosids to cocaine was absolutely marvelous etc....

Just sadly, it was about as far off the mark as the sun is from being in my toilet...

You said that by busting the dealer/producer there will be no more *product* to buy. Therefore the authorities need not bust the people who bought the *product*. Well I don't know how your government works over there but here in the UK we get prosecuted for buying the said illegal *product*.

Just sayin'...

 

[flamesbane]

No, no no. Don't get me wrong, I think it was a really well thought out and intelligent point you tried to deliver. And they way in which you compare theraphosids to cocaine was absolutely marvelous etc....

Just sadly, it was about as far off the mark as the sun is from being in my toilet...

You said that by busting the dealer/producer there will be no more *product* to buy. Therefore the authorities need not bust the people who bought the *product*. Well I don't know how your government works over there but here in the UK we get prosecuted for buying the said illegal *product*.

Just sayin'...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you missed my edit:

I can go edit in "J/k" or "/sarcasm" if it helps.

Added by edit:

That seemed more rude after I re-read it. My point being that the government typically punishes suppliers and not consumers. (Drug dealers, prostitutes, child porn producers vs. consumers of their wares). I am not saying this is the best way to do things, but it does tend happen.

Tarantulas = Cocaine was just a joke.

Hope that clears things up!

I am not suggesting that the government doesn't punish purchasers, of course it does! However the focus is on suppliers of said illegal substances. I am not saying that is the best way to do things, but that is how it tends to be done.

 

[mcluskyisms]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you missed my edit

Haha. Yeah I didnt. S'cool

 

[DamoK21]

The guy broke the law, he got what was comming, he new the risk's, its as simple as that....

If you really are to lazy to take CB T's accross countrys with the proper paper work, then dont do it. This i hope will come as a lesson to him, to do it right or not at all. This here aint exactly going to promote the hobby, its just going to smeer it even further, not to mention, after abusing the system, more laws could easily go in place to stop any imports of T's comming in from anywere, to put more pressure on illegal importers.

Would i say its a harsh sentence, no, id say he had a very nice judge. As far as im concerned, this move has given authorities more of a "reason", and less of a "go-ahead"

 

[esotericman]

I believe, as hobbyists, we should wait for the court transcripts before condemning anyone. If Rick West was hired as an "expert" witness, the prosecution (USA) could have asked him some quite odd questions, to which his responses may have been completely nonsensical. The entire flesh eating bacteria thing is hopefully an example of that.

If you hit the LA Times article, it is not so blown out of proportion.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...-prison-for-smuggling-tarantulas-into-us.html

As for the law, sell your home, your car, your children before you ever get caught up in the system.

 

[Mez]

Isn't Rick West a member here?

 

[webbedone]

I wonder what would have happened if it was american breeder smuggling Ts into germany...

 

[PhobeToPhile]

Ugh, this is the last thing the hobby needs. And especially not the flesh eating bacteria bit. Let's hope this blows over quietly.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

It makes me wonder about those other 9 individuals that were involve in this. The German guy gets punish and the 9 US citizens did they get a slap on the wrist? There's got to be more to this story, mmm.



Jose Berrios
Exoskeleton Invertebrates

 

[Smitty78]

See these videos with Rick West and his comments and/or his consultation advice used in them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNqJ7IU_yBk
If they have flesh-eating bacteria, why is he handling and eating them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg9a0-cIoN8
Look at the video at the 2:15 minute mark to 2:21minute mark = Tarantulas are not dangerous to humans

Tarantula vs BBQ Cooking Fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNqJ7IU_yBk
Rick West, Tarantula expert, confronts the notion of what is good food, and what is taboo.

It's amazing what some people will do for money as a paid witness.

 

[spiderpets]

I wonder what would have happened if it was american breeder smuggling Ts into germany...

Probably nothing at German side where sending/ importing/ exporting inverts in the mail is legal.

But it would be a smuggling offence for the US exporter who is breaking US American law. Once a parcel left the US it's the recievers and buyers responsibility, how else should it be? All what could happen is that German customs open the parcel and 19% VAT has to be paid. What do you think how all the wild caught Aphonopelma species come to Europe?

Entrapment by the way is unlawfull and illegal in Europe. Even if it would be about a crime, it can't be done.

 

[Comatose]

It's amazing what some people will do for money as a paid witness.

+1 Couldn't agree more dude.