Geniculata makes me nervous

[aLDoDarK]

hi guys,

today I just received a MM Geniculata from a friend of mine.
So here's the guy
his last molt was late September 2012, and his last sperm web was a month ago.


I've a plan to pair him with my 4-5 inch Female Geniculata


So here is my first attempt, it just makes me nervous, I never breed tarantula before, and I afraid that the female will eat the male.
When I put the male inside the female container he tried to tap the floor, but he seems had a difficulties doing it. Not sure why. the front leg just a little bit shaking without tapping, and the female just stay calm do nothing. the male went out from the container twice. I think that he gave me a sign that he don't want it today......


Any advice on what should I do? Am I on the right track
Should I just wait for the male to make another sperm web, or I tried to mate with her tomorrow.

to be honest I don't have any experience regarding mating and breeding tarantula. and I don't know where should I ask other then here in arachnoboard. There might be some people in my country that know about breeding, but it's not easy to find the people since the tarantula hobbyist in Indonesia is still small
Thanks in advance for your help

 

[poisoned]

If he already made a sperm web you don't have to wait for another one. It's alwaysrisky to mate Ts, but you can't gather experience without trying. Feed hertoday and introduce male tomorrow!

 

[macbaffo]

R: Geniculata makes me nervous

Keep trying!

 

[Storm76]

Personally, I'd feed her heavily before introducing the male into her cage - just because these tend to view anything entering their cage either as food or threat. Watch carefully, have a piece of cardboard (or anything like that), tongs ready in case you have to save the male from the female (yes, during that in can happen that you get tagged - it's an "occupational hazard" if you will - don't be afraid!). I haven't bred any of mine so far, but will start some breeding projects soon.

Please correct me in case I'm wrong, people!

 

[aLDoDarK]

If he already made a sperm web you don't have to wait for another one. It's alwaysrisky to mate Ts, but you can't gather experience without trying. Feed hertoday and introduce male tomorrow!

Great! I'll try to mate him today or maybe tomorrow after I feed her with some crickets. Currently the female seems to be hungry, she always took the cricks that I gave her very soon after it "landed" to the tank.

Keep trying!

I'll Thanks man!

Personally, I'd feed her heavily before introducing the male into her cage - just because these tend to view anything entering their cage either as food or threat. Watch carefully, have a piece of cardboard (or anything like that), tongs ready in case you have to save the male from the female (yes, during that in can happen that you get tagged - it's an "occupational hazard" if you will - don't be afraid!). I haven't bred any of mine so far, but will start some breeding projects soon.

Please correct me in case I'm wrong, people!

Thanks for your input man
Just wondering if it's possible to breed a T outside the enclosure. if it's possible I think that it'll reduce the risk of the male being eaten, since the T doesn't have a good appetite when they're outside their cage. I've seen a photo of T's that's mating in someone hands. Man.. that guy must be have lots of experience.

 

[BrettG]

Is it possible that she is just not large enough to be receptive? 4-5 inches for A.geniculata is small IMHO,considering the sizes they are capable of attaining. I would think that at her current size her molt cycle is still pretty short.

 

[peterUK]

Just stick with it and be patient !!!

I bred this species just over a year ago and it was nail biting stuff !!

A link to >>> A. Geniculata breeding in pictures <<<

 

[grayzone]

Just wondering if it's possible to breed a T outside the enclosure. if it's possible I think that it'll reduce the risk of the male being eaten, since the T doesn't have a good appetite when they're outside their cage. I've seen a photo of T's that's mating in someone hands. Man.. that guy must be have lots of experience.

If you continue to attempt pairing, try doing so with the lid off... Keep a catch cup handy, as the male will make a run for it if needed. The females USUALL dont follow too far out of their enclosure.. if at all.

Also, ive seen the "pairing on hands" pic. While he IS a successful breeder, i think he got lucky in that case. I would think that a tarantula would usually feel too uncomfortable to mate. The male may not care too much (one track mind) but the female would probably wouldnt be too receptive in most cases

Dont worry if you dont see tapping. Not all males drum. They may on one pairing, and not on the next. Honestly, ive only seen drumming like twice before. They ALWAYS vibrate/twitch around the enclosure for me though.


Brett MAY be correct on her being too small to pair/breed, but that is not set in stone. That female doesnt look too much smaller than the MM, and her carapace is definitely larger. Also wanted to add that the female looks MORE than 4-5" to me, but it could be the photography.
These things DO get large, so keep trying and if your unsuccessful, you should have plenty luck one day.

 

[aLDoDarK]

Is it possible that she is just not large enough to be receptive? 4-5 inches for A.geniculata is small IMHO,considering the sizes they are capable of attaining. I would think that at her current size her molt cycle is still pretty short.

The female just molt a a few weeks ago. and I was trying to feed less to her. but I changed the plan to feed her till full just like you guys said that better to keep her full and happy to reduce the risk of male being eaten.

Just stick with it and be patient !!!

I bred this species just over a year ago and it was nail biting stuff !!

A link to >>> A. Geniculata breeding in pictures <<<

What a great shoot man! Love it! I saw that your cage is pretty much empty, do you think that the enclosure like mine will make a difficulties for them to mate?

If you continue to attempt pairing, try doing so with the lid off... Keep a catch cup handy, as the male will make a run for it if needed. The females USUALL dont follow too far out of their enclosure.. if at all.

Also, ive seen the "pairing on hands" pic. While he IS a successful breeder, i think he got lucky in that case. I would think that a tarantula would usually feel too uncomfortable to mate. The male may not care too much (one track mind) but the female would probably wouldnt be too receptive in most cases

Dont worry if you dont see tapping. Not all males drum. They may on one pairing, and not on the next. Honestly, ive only seen drumming like twice before. They ALWAYS vibrate/twitch around the enclosure for me though.


Brett MAY be correct on her being too small to pair/breed, but that is not set in stone. That female doesnt look too much smaller than the MM, and her carapace is definitely larger. Also wanted to add that the female looks MORE than 4-5" to me, but it could be the photography.
These things DO get large, so keep trying and if your unsuccessful, you should have plenty luck one day.

Thank you Grayzone, That relieve me, I was thinking that mine already infertile because he didn't drumming, or he hasn't charge enough sperm. well.. that's what a newbie thought
and I agree with you, the carapace of the female is slightly larger then the male, I'm bad at measuring the size anyway
Just wondering if my enclosure set up will give difficulties for the male to run away, Because even though I'm ready with thong or cup. I'm afraid I can't be fast enough to separated them if the female tried to eat the male. I've seen several videos, that looks so damn fast when the female tried to attack the male

 

[cmcghee358]

Do you happen to have a pictures of the spermathecae from the molt of the female? It might provide a good indication on her maturity.

Also the drumming of the male is much more subtle than I think we as humans can perceive. Even though he may not be banging on the ground, don't assume she can't perceive the vibrations of the movement.

 

[aLDoDarK]

I don't have it, I got her not so long ago. Do you have any picture that shows a mature female spermatehecae? because I only know if the female already shows her spermathechae she's ready for mating. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Tarac]

I don't have it, I got her not so long ago. Do you have any picture that shows a mature female spermatehecae? because I only know if the female already shows her spermathechae she's ready for mating. Correct me if I'm wrong

Not exactly- you can see spermatheca on very small, immature female molts. I have personally sexed a sling as female from a molt that was under 1." It's more about the condition of the spermatheca. They have to be fully developed looking before you can be sure she is mature from a molt, which means they have to be fully sclerotized. This means they appear dark, amber colored where in immature specimens they will be clear to pale yellow or just starting to turn brownish/amber and they may be not yet in the final shape but developing towards it depending on how far off from maturity she is.

Wikipedia has a picture of A. geniculata spermatheca actually:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatheca

 

[aLDoDarK]

Thanks for your info Tarac, I never seen mine before, but I guess that mine already mature enough to breed since the size is pretty much the same with the mature male. correct me if I'm wrong.
But Today I tried to pair them for second time. and they both make a progress, the male succeed to "touch" the female leg. that's it -____- and she walk away soon after that. seems like the female not so interested with the male. maann.... I guess I need to keep trying. I was looking at them do nothing for about 45 minutes today. Just wondering if it's okay to touch them with a brush when they do nothing for too long..

 

[Tarac]

It's possible she's not mature yet, females are significantly larger than males in general but of course that isn't strictly true. It's good she just walked away instead of getting enraged and attacking. One thing, which I hate to ask, is if you have not seen the molt yourself are you absolutely sure you have a female? It wouldn't be the first time someone has accidentally tried to pair a MM with and IM thinking it was female because it was sold that way.

I think I wouldn't brush them when trying to get them to pair personally, at least not the female as it might make her too uncomfortable to feel safe mating or even a little defensive which could spell trouble for your male.

How was the male behaving? IME they quiver and if they can get close enough they eventually "bop" the female on the head with legs 1 and 5 repeatedly until he lifts her up and does his thing. I haven't bred this species but I have paired several of my females of other genera and it was the same behavior for them all- as Brett mentioned they don't necessarily drum. One male I had did but the others did not.

Good luck!

 

[aLDoDarK]

You're right, I haven't seen the spermathechae of this female by my self. But one thing that makes me pretty sure that it's female is from her appearance. Both of the male and female has a lot different appearance with they carapaces are almost the same size.
Hopefully she's a "true" female. Because I only can sex from spermathecae. I don't believe with ventral sexing because I've done a mistake several time when sexing a smaller T by looking at their ventral. Molt sexing is 100% true from my opinion.

 

[grayzone]

another thing to consider is the fact she just recently molted.. She may need a bit of time to recouperate. Just because shes eating doesnt mean shes ready for pairing.

My P ornata female was more than ready within 2-2.5 weeks of her last molt, but my female A avic was originally paired 1 month after and wanted NO PART of it. I tried again last month (4 months after her molt) and she drummed like crazy and was really receptive.

 

[aLDoDarK]

I never know about that before. Thanks for your info grayzone!
well.. I guess that I'll keep trying, and just check the ventral, I think that she's the true female (if I'm not mistaken)

 

[aLDoDarK]

Latest update, not much different from yesterday. The female still walk away when the male got near to her. then after the second time, the female CHARGE the male @.@ seems like she didn't like being disturbed by the male. Lucky that the male was fast enough to run away. Man..... if that a normal case, and if that happens again, should I just separated them? or leave them a little bit longer?