Feeder Care

[dev0n]

I feel like a lot of people are going to say this is an absolute waste of time and money but my question is do any of you spend extra time caring for your feeders? For example, I've been experimenting with giving my house crickets extra nutrition and proper enclosure setups in an attempt at making them very healthy and "gut-loaded." Now, I am very new to the Tarantula universe but I become obsessive very quickly studying the biology and current studies with tarantula (or shall I say lack thereof).

In general, is there any extra care any of you pay attention to in terms of nutrition/diet?

 

[Tentacle Toast]

I buy the Fluker Farms cricket chow, & I fill a small dish with it, & may or may not add a slice of apple. My crickets (temporarily) live in a pen pal, with either a brown paper bag, or thin piece of cardboard cut to fit on the bottom so they A- can't climb under, or B- shit up the container too badly, as I like to wash it thoroughly between "guests." Also have egg crate for them to hide in, which gets replaced every few batches of tenants...

 

[NMTs]

Not a waste of time - there are many of us that raise our own feeder colonies. Giving your feeder insects a crappy diet basically means you're giving your T's a crappy diet, so it is important to make sure your feeders are well cared for (plus, it helps them live longer). Even when I buy feeders from the store, I will usually feed them up for at least 24 hours prior to offering to my animals, just to ensure they've had a chance to load up with good stuff.

 

[Wolfram1]

In the case of Ampulex compressa raising the roaches on a healthy diet can influence sucessful parasitation by a large margin. I'd think even absolute survivalists like our fafourite Theraphosidae will benefit greatly from healthy feeders, though i am less sure about the importance of "gutloading"

I'd say breeding them yourself is more beneficial than a quick and dirty "top-up" right before feeding.

it cant hurt however

 

[dev0n]

Not a waste of time - there are many of us that raise our own feeder colonies. Giving your feeder insects a crappy diet basically means you're giving your T's a crappy diet, so it is important to make sure your feeders are well cared for (plus, it helps them live longer). Even when I buy feeders from the store, I will usually feed them up for at least 24 hours prior to offering to my animals, just to ensure they've had a chance to load up with good stuff.

This is sort of where my immediate inspiration came from. I would go to the chain store and witness colonies of dead bodies in the cricket containers leaving me thinking what the hell am I feeding my T's? Plus I've read sources calcium deficiency can lead to bad molts and so on. We are what we eat after all...

In the case of Ampulex compressa raising the roaches on a healthy diet can influence sucessful parasitation by a large margin. I'd think even absolute survivalists like our fafourite Theraphosidae will benefit greatly from healthy feeders, though i am less sure about the importance of "gutloading"

I'd say breeding them yourself is more beneficial than a quick and dirty "top-up" right before feeding.

it cant hurt however

Intuition leads me to agree with your statement about "gut-loading" seeing how slow their rate of consumption is. T's most likely get all the nutrition they need so it's more important for their food to simply not be contaminated.

 

[Wolfram1]

Intuition leads me to agree with your statement about "gut-loading" seeing how slow their rate of consumption is. T's most likely get all the nutrition they need so it's more important for their food to simply not be contaminated.

not only contaminated, also not dehydrated, starved, suffering from vitamin or amino acid deficiencies, or otherwise having a compromized immune system, showing signs of mycosis etc.

in other words gutloading only makes up for part of what makes them 'healthy'

 

[BoyFromLA]

an absolute waste of time and Money

Not at all.

This is definitely a time well spend.

 

[Denn]

My dubia colony probably has a better vegetation diet than myself

As the saying goes.... "you are what you eat", and this applies to spiders as well!

For this reason it is never a waste of time to make sure your feeders are as well kept as possible.

 

[dev0n]

My dubia colony probably has a better vegetation diet than myself

As the saying goes.... "you are what you eat", and this applies to spiders as well!

For this reason it is never a waste of time to make sure your feeders are as well kept as possible.

How did you source the start of your colony; I am very interested in doing this. I assume I could literally go anywhere to just find some males and females (I hear 1:4 ratio is ideal) and let them go to town? I like to overanalyze everything so any info you have would be appreciated!

 

[Introvertebrate]

My dubia colony probably has a better vegetation diet than myself

As the saying goes.... "you are what you eat", and this applies to spiders as well!

For this reason it is never a waste of time to make sure your feeders are as well kept as possible.

My dubias are on the highly acclaimed "dog food and pumpkin" diet. I regret that I didn't buy more pumpkins before Halloween. I've been eyeing my neighbor's front porch though.

 

[mack1855]

Not a waste of time at all.Just finished grocery shopping for the week.Always buying organic zucchini and carrots for my red runner colony.
I hate zucchini.But it’s for the runners eventually going to my T,s.
Feeders have needs just like any other animal,and not caring for them is inexcusable,particularly if you are caring for a large colony.
Not trying to come off wrong,but I like the idea that the chicken/beef/and pork eaten by us are treated humanely until slaughtered.
I spend several days a week tending to my runner colony.I’m rewarded with healthy runners,and a diverse colony,from full sized adults to pinheads.And everything in between.

 

[Introvertebrate]

I feel like a lot of people are going to say this is an absolute waste of time and money but my question is do any of you spend extra time caring for your feeders? For example, I've been experimenting with giving my house crickets extra nutrition and proper enclosure setups in an attempt at making them very healthy and "gut-loaded." Now, I am very new to the Tarantula universe but I become obsessive very quickly studying the biology and current studies with tarantula (or shall I say lack thereof).

In general, is there any extra care any of you pay attention to in terms of nutrition/diet?

My crickets get Purina poultry feed. I'm saving a pint of RePashy Bug Burger for a special occasion. I'm not quite sure what that will be.

 

[Denn]

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How did you source the start of your colony; I am very interested in doing this. I assume I could literally go anywhere to just find some males and females (I hear 1:4 ratio is ideal) and let them go to town? I like to overanalyze everything so any info you have would be appreciated!

I started my colony by buying 5 or so tubs from my local exotic pet shop and putting them together. It helped that a few of the tubs already had babies in. I didn't make any provisions to ensure a male to female ratio, I just dumped them all in a dark plastic storage container with holes drilled in the side and top, added egg boxes, and let them do their thing. I think I then bought maybe 2 or 3 more tubs to boost them up as felt I had too little males, and just cared for them like I would have anything else. I was ultra picky at first as to using them for my spiders, I allowed them a good while to establish a colony. At various points I've divided them up and sold off a few "starter colonies" to friends that keep tarantulas when the colony was over populated, and at that point I was more picky with a male-female ratio for the "starter colonies", and went for about 1:3. It was very simple really.

My dubias are on the highly acclaimed "dog food and pumpkin" diet. I regret that I didn't buy more pumpkins before Halloween. I've been eyeing my neighbor's front porch though.

I haven't tried either of those food sources. Pumpkin sounds like it would be a great one though. I feed my dubias wheat bran, I buy in 20kg bags that is marketed as a horse food, line the bottom with a nice layer of it whilst leaving a blank spot, and then just dump various scraps of veg in the blank spot and clear when needed, rinse repeat.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

This is sort of where my immediate inspiration came from. I would go to the chain store and witness colonies of dead bodies in the cricket containers leaving me thinking what the hell am I feeding my T's? Plus I've read sources calcium deficiency can lead to bad molts and so on. We are what we eat after all...


Intuition leads me to agree with your statement about "gut-loading" seeing how slow their rate of consumption is. T's most likely get all the nutrition they need so it's more important for their food to simply not be contaminated.

Where did you read that about calcium deficiency and bad molts?

Tarantulas do not need calcium gut loaded feeders at all. In fact that could cause negative health issues. Tarantulas do not require calcium at all.

Calcium and its effects on tarantulas

Hi! I’ve read numerous posts, articles, etc. about the alleged effects Calcium may have on Tarantulas. Some claiming that high Calcium intake does not lead to any significant issues for tarantulas and others suggesting the contrary. I am aware that this hasn’t been properly researched and tested...

arachnoboards.com

Maintaining a feeder colony or just feeders in general isn't just a good idea it's mandatory or you will have alot of dead ones.

 

[NMTs]

How did you source the start of your colony; I am very interested in doing this. I assume I could literally go anywhere to just find some males and females (I hear 1:4 ratio is ideal) and let them go to town? I like to overanalyze everything so any info you have would be appreciated!

There are any number of online dealers that will sell you starter colonies of any type of feeder insect you're interested in. The benefit to that is you should get a good ratio of males to females, various sizes so you have breeders maturing continuously, and hopefully healthy specimens. You can, however, just do what a lot of us have done and go to the shop and buy some, then put them in an enclosure and let them do their thing. It took a while for my dubia colony to get going that way because none of the stores around here really sell mature males or females, just large juveniles, so I had to wait for them to grow up some.

Not sure what kind of feeder you're considering, but you might check out the videos on Clint's Reptiles YouTube channel about feeder insects - he's got some really good info on the different types that are available and the pros and cons of each.

 

[Mike Withrow]

I keep two bins full of dubia. I feed nothing but salad greens. I don't use any commercial food for them or any of the gel stuff. Just a daily hand full of regular cheap salad mix from the store.
Lots of information on here and advice about keeping them as well. And nope not a silly question at all.
It's actually refreshing from all the same day after day repetitive questions that's asked on here.

 

[Wolfram1]

I keep a bin of Lucihormetica verrucosa, which are similar in size to B.dubia just slower growing.

2.0 Lucihormetica verrucosa

• Wolfram1
• Sep 25, 2023
• 3
• insect roach

light- and darkcoloured male

and just started one with Shelfordella lateralis as i decided i may as well go for it rather than buying them every half year.

I am also planning on one for my Zophobas morio, but thats still in the works.

Going large is really helpful in order to keep maintenance down. And you do need to clean them up from time to time or even the best setup will turn foul.


Also starting with a good amount takes years off the establishing phase.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I keep a bin of Lucihormetica verrucosa, which are similar in size to B.dubia just slower growing.

2.0 Lucihormetica verrucosa

• Wolfram1
• Sep 25, 2023
• 3
• insect roach

light- and darkcoloured male

and just started one with Shelfordella lateralis as i decided i may as well go for it rather than buying them every half year.

I am also planning on one for my Zophobas morio, but thats still in the works.

Going large is really helpful in order to keep maintenance down. And you do need to clean them up from time to time or even the best setup will turn foul.


Also starting with a good amount takes years off the establishing phase.

L. verrucosa look like some nice roaches. They are the same size as the Eublaberus posticus roaches I have.

Do the L. verrucoas emit a foul smell when disturbed?

E. posticus smell so bad makes me want to vomit.

 

[Wolfram1]

L. verrucosa look like some nice roaches. They are the same size as the Eublaberus posticus roaches I have.

Do the L. verrucoas emit a foul smell when disturbed?

E. posticus smell so bad makes me want to vomit.

the males do puff up when threatened and emit an odor, but its not bad, just taking a whiff of my Schelfordella colony is worse. The L. verrucosa colony is barely noticable in comparison.

Its probably not really worth it to breed them as a feeder but i have grown to like them.

 

[dev0n]

Where did you read that about calcium deficiency and bad molts?

Oh boy, I had a feeling this was going to get nit picked. Well to begin with let's start the obvious: 'legitimate' tarantula research is extremely scarce. Any search on scientific journal websites and databases proves this right away.

I cannot provide any 'real' research and I cannot find the said source I found but I know for a fact it was illegitimate. However, it is generally understood that a well-balanced diet contributes to overall health and successful molting processes.

I did in fact dive a little deeper into this myth in which I actually learned that tarantulas' exoskeletons are actually chitin based and not calcium based which is probably where this misconception originated. Additionally the exoskeletons contains layers of proteins and sometimes minerals which make it even stronger and more durable.

For keeping chitin healthy, especially in creatures like tarantulas, one key nutrient to focus on is calcium. Now, calcium isn't directly used in making chitin itself – chitin is primarily made of a sugar called N-acetylglucosamine. But calcium plays a crucial role in strengthening and maintaining the overall structure of the exoskeleton in many arthropods, including tarantulas.

Calcium salts reinforce the chitinous exoskeleton in crustaceans, forming inorganic-organic composite materials. This biomineralization mechanism, one of the oldest to have evolved in animals, primarily enhances the mechanical strength of the skeleton (Source 1).

In crustaceans, the cuticle, which is a composite material forming the continuous exoskeleton, includes nano-fibers composed of chitin and protein molecules. Calcium carbonate is a significant part of this structure, contributing to the rigidity and protection offered by the exoskeleton (Source 2) (Source 3).

The organic matrix within marine calcifiers, which includes chitin, plays a key role in regulating crystal deposition. This process includes the crystalline structure and initiation of mineralization. Calcium, particularly in the form of calcium carbonate, is integral in this process, helping to regulate and enhance the structure and integrity of the exoskeleton (Source 4)

These sources emphasize the importance of calcium, especially as calcium carbonate, in the structure and health of chitin-based exoskeletons in crustaceans. This mineralization process not only strengthens the exoskeleton but also plays a regulatory role in its formation and maintenance.

Which leads me to this next point: No, a tarantula is not a crustacean. Tarantulas are a type of spider, belonging to the class Arachnida within the phylum Arthropoda. They're part of the order Araneae.

Yes, the exoskeletons of both tarantulas (arachnids) and crustaceans are primarily made up of chitin. Chitin is a long-chain polymer of a sugar called N-acetylglucosamine, a derivative of glucose. This material is a key component in the exoskeletons of many arthropods, providing strength and flexibility.

However, while chitin is a common component, there are differences in how it's utilized and structured between different groups of arthropods:

• In Crustaceans: The chitin in crustacean exoskeletons is often combined with calcium carbonate, which hardens and strengthens the exoskeleton. This mineralization is particularly important for aquatic crustaceans, providing additional structural support and protection in their underwater environment.
• In Arachnids (like Tarantulas): The exoskeleton of tarantulas and other arachnids also consists of chitin, but it typically doesn't incorporate as much mineral content as crustacean exoskeletons. Instead, the chitin in arachnid exoskeletons is often interwoven with proteins, which provides the necessary strength and flexibility without the weight of minerals like calcium carbonate.

So, while the basic building block of chitin is the same in both tarantulas and crustaceans, the composition and structure of their exoskeletons can differ due to their different environmental needs and evolutionary paths.

The arthropod cuticle, including that of tarantulas, consists of fibrous chains of alpha-chitin within a matrix of silk-like and globular proteins, such as resilin. The proportion of chitin to protein varies, with softer parts of the exoskeleton having a higher proportion of chitin. Unlike in many crustaceans, the exoskeleton of tarantulas does not heavily incorporate mineral salts like calcium carbonate (Source 6) (Source 7)

While the fundamental building block of chitin is common, the additional components and their arrangement significantly vary, influencing the physical properties of the exoskeleton in these different groups of arthropods.

It's not quite accurate to directly transfer the importance of calcium from crustaceans to tarantulas. In crustaceans, calcium plays a significant role in strengthening the exoskeleton due to its incorporation with chitin. However, in tarantulas, the exoskeleton composition relies more on the chitin-protein matrix, without a heavy emphasis on calcium carbonate for reinforcement.

While a balanced diet that includes adequate minerals, including calcium, is important for overall health in tarantulas, proteins are likely more critical for the health and integrity of their exoskeleton. Protein contributes to the structure and flexibility of the chitin-based exoskeleton in tarantulas, making it a key component in their diet for maintaining exoskeleton health. Therefore, focusing on a nutritious diet rich in proteins, rather than calcium supplementation, is generally more pertinent for tarantula health and exoskeleton maintenance.

TLDR: Protein > Calcium for T's