Ephobopus murinus EMERGENCY please

[StickyStein]

So I’m not gonna name the vendor just yet but I purchased a breeding pair of ephobopus murinus. Now they couldn’t guarantee sex even though that is part of the problem. Anyways I have 2 skeletons about 4 inches. Neither show tibial hooks or boxing gloves but I sexed underneath and they seem to be different genders. But the problem is that neither burrowed. I have 1 in a medium KK with 5 inches coco sub and the other in a 10 gallon with 1 side having 5 inches coco sub. Both are kept damp. But neither burrow and 1 seems to be dying. I put the deathly suspect female in ER. And the suspect male (who I thought was female cuz the abdomen is MUCH BIGGER and is in the 10 gallon). I will transfer later tonight. Both ate the day I got them but the suspect male in the 10 gallon has ate 3 more times while the deathly female(in the medium KK) only ate the once. So I’ve never had a WC but I feel that is the case. I repeat though, NEITHER HAVE BURROWED! What do I do and what may be the cause of weirdness? I’ve had them for over 3 weeks now. I will add pictures and hopefully you can see how deathly and oddly shaped her abdomen is. PLEASE HELP!! The deathly female are the pics of T in water dish and in the open in a death looking curl. Male is in the trees

 

[Chris LXXIX]

1) Call an idiot you can't stand, and, straight from the 5th + floor balcony, throw in his head that humidity - useless - gauge

2) Please upload a picture of the whole (entirely) set up.

3) 5 inches of substrate are more or less more than a Marlboro 20 packet cigs... IMO a bit low. Anyway.

With this specie, you need time, and substrate always moist (never wet, uh) with an always full water dish (this especially during Winters, with the furnaces always 'on').

While the first pic is 'scary', in the others to me seems to witness more a 'stressed' spider, rathern than a 'death curl' one.

Ephebopus murinus do not turn that 'fatty' and 'chubby' like other NW T's, btw.

 

[cold blood]

So I’m not gonna name the vendor just yet but I purchased a breeding pair of ephobopus murinus. Now they couldn’t guarantee sex even though that is part of the problem. Anyways I have 2 skeletons about 4 inches

Common ploy....if the female is mature, the male should mature next molt though and you should actually be able to pair them.

Neither show tibial hooks or boxing gloves

A male will only show this after its ultimate molt, otherwise they will look basically the same.

But the problem is that neither burrowed.

They need time to acclimate...it can take a while for some ts, especially fossorials.

And the suspect male (who I thought was female cuz the abdomen is MUCH BIGGER and is in the 10 gallon).

Abdomen is not an indicator of sex, it only indicates where it is in its molt cycle.

the suspect male in the 10 gallon has ate 3 more times while the deathly female(in the medium KK)

KKs offer a ton of ventilation, so perhaps its just drying too fast, which can lead them downhill...keep the water dish full.

If the t is in rough shape, you can flip it onto its back and administer water droplets to the base of the fangs...this is the best way to hydrate a t.

Male is in the trees

Fossorials should not have A. Climbing space, or B. Things to climb on.

Climbing should be discouraged, and how you set up the tank is how you discourage. If there's room to climb, it means you need to add more substrate.

 

[Nightstalker47]

So I’m not gonna name the vendor just yet but I purchased a breeding pair of ephobopus murinus. Now they couldn’t guarantee sex even though that is part of the problem.

What? They couldn't guarantee sex...not a a breeding pair then. Merely two unsexed spiders, sounds like a scam to me.

the suspect male (who I thought was female cuz the abdomen is MUCH BIGGER and is in the 10 gallon).

Abdomen size has absolutely no bearing on gender. All tarantulas are somewhat skinny post molt, they then fatten up with time and feeding. And the cycle repeats itself.

will add pictures and hopefully you can see how deathly and oddly shaped her abdomen is. PLEASE HELP!! The deathly female are the pics of T in water dish and in the open in a death looking curl. Male is in the trees

Your specimens dont look very healthy. I would give them each a larger water dish and overflow some water in the sub. They may just need time to settle and re hydrate.

Good luck.

 

[StickyStein]

1) Call an idiot you can't stand, and, straight from the 5th + floor balcony, throw in his head that humidity - useless - gauge

2) Please upload a picture of the whole (entirely) set up.

3) 5 inches of substrate are more or less more than a Marlboro 20 packet cigs... IMO a bit low. Anyway.

With this specie, you need time, and substrate always moist (never wet, uh) with an always full water dish (this especially during Winters, with the furnaces always 'on').

While the first pic is 'scary', in the others to me seems to witness more a 'stressed' spider, rathern than a 'death curl' one.

Ephebopus murinus do not turn that 'fatty' and 'chubby' like other NW T's, btw.

The first pic is the same spider as the the pic in the water dish. And I agree scary. The abdomen is so tiny and misshaped. I’ve had plenty molts of other species and none looked like this. It’s almost like a curvy pear. I just fed the male in the trees and he ate right there with no issue but I also tried to feed the female in the er by crushing the head of the cricket and she noticed it and put a leg on it but just let it lay there 30 minutes later

 

[StickyStein]

Common ploy....if the female is mature, the male should mature next molt though and you should actually be able to pair them.

A male will only show this after its ultimate molt, otherwise they will look basically the same.

They need time to acclimate...it can take a while for some ts, especially fossorials.


Abdomen is not an indicator of sex, it only indicates where it is in its molt cycle.

KKs offer a ton of ventilation, so perhaps its just drying too fast, which can lead them downhill...keep the water dish full.

If the t is in rough shape, you can flip it onto its back and administer water droplets to the base of the fangs...this is the best way to hydrate a t.


Fossorials should not have A. Climbing space, or B. Things to climb on.

Climbing should be discouraged, and how you set up the tank is how you discourage. If there's room to climb, it means you need to add more substrate.

I have most the kk vents blocked. I could keep it more damp. The 10 gallon sub is fairly moist. Not soaked but fully moist. Temps stay around 70 in my room. Pics: suspect female, only suspected it today, I did think it was the male, is in kk. The male suspect is in the larger tank with large water dish. I have to switch the 2 in their tanks. I only changed my suspects a couple hours ago and am injured at the moment so I’m limited on using my hand

 

[boina]

The spider with the very small abdomen seems in bad shape - possibly dehydrated. If they are dehydrated they can't eat because they need internal fluids to digest.

At this point I'd make cricket soup: Evicerate a few crickets, mix with a few drops of water and serve the bowl to the spider.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

A proper hide/starter burrow might help with acclimation as well.

 

[StickyStein]

The spider with the very small abdomen seems in bad shape - possibly dehydrated. If they are dehydrated they can't eat because they need internal fluids to digest.

At this point I'd make cricket soup: Evicerate a few crickets, mix with a few drops of water and serve the bowl to the spider.

Oh damn. I will make the soup today. I’m gonna pick up a new enclosure with side vents. I blocked majority of the kk vents prior to intro but obviously still not enough if the sub dries so fast. I hope I didn’t fuck up. I really tried and I feel really bad for the T. Thank you all for the info. Keep it coming though cuz I really need help. I will post again tonight with my progress and the progress of the spider. I’m grateful T keepers are sympathetic people cuz I really need you all. All my other Ts are doing so well but none of them are high humid species. These are my first humid species and I hate that I’m learning the hard way

 

[Mjb30]

Don’t hate me people I didn’t mean for this to happen

Don't feel bad, you've tried to do the best you can and now you're asking for help and doing the right thing by following advice given.

Good luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for your Ts.

 

[NukaMedia Exotics]

I have a 5" female E. murinus that I bought from a vendor on here a couple months ago, she still hasn't burrowed and barely uses her hide. 99% sure she's WC too.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Let me give you an advice that (IMO) really works, despite the fact that a lot of people, since forever, thinks that, in the case of 'pet holes' is useless do that because '... they burrow no matter'.

Offer always a piece of cork bark (my suggestion, and better) or, if not available or else, other wood. And, as @The Grym Reaper said, start a pre-hole near.

'pet holes' are, no matter their nature, opportunistic just like the other Theraphosidae and they will appreciate that.

Examples:

Here you can see my 0.1 E.murinus with a B.dubia. On the right there's a piece of cork bark (placed in diagonal) and guess where she started to burrow.



Below my C.lividus. Here the cork bark is more 'viewable'. Same story.



It's not really a pure coincidence and nothing else that all of my 'pet holes' decided to burrow near the cork bark (where I always start a pre hole). I also love to keep the part where I place the cork bark on the dry side (while the rest is moist).

 

[StickyStein]

Let me give you an advice that (IMO) really works, despite the fact that a lot of people, since forever, thinks that, in the case of 'pet holes' is useless do that because '... they burrow no matter'.

Offer always a piece of cork bark (my suggestion, and better) or, if not available or else, other wood. And, as @The Grym Reaper said, start a pre-hole near.

'pet holes' are, no matter their nature, opportunistic just like the other Theraphosidae and they will appreciate that.

Examples:

Here you can see my 0.1 E.murinus with a B.dubia. On the right there's a piece of cork bark (placed in diagonal) and guess where she started to burrow.

View attachment 270334

Below my C.lividus. Here the cork bark is more 'viewable'. Same story.

View attachment 270336

It's not really a pure coincidence and nothing else that all of my 'pet holes' decided to burrow near the cork bark (where I always start a pre hole). I also love to keep the part where I place the cork bark on the dry side (while the rest is moist).

I will definitely add cork bark. I started burrows for them but I guess they just aren’t ready to burrow. I didn’t think it would take so long for them to get comfortable enough to burrow

 

[The Grym Reaper]

That's all I do, put in a slab of cork and make a hole under it that's just big enough for the spider to fit into, they usually do the rest after a few days.

View media item 46601
For my Ephebopus cyanognathus, I put a couple of anchor points just outside of the burrow entrance and he made this moss-reinforced web funnel.

View media item 47488View media item 47487

 

[StickyStein]

I have her in the ER right now. Day 2. She’s seems more perked up. Still hasn’t eaten yet. Gonna keep her in there for a couple more days and hopefully I can release her into her new enclosure. She’s gonna be rehoused in a 10 gallon tank with plenty of coco/verm substrate. I had the suspect male in it for 2 weeks so it stays plenty humid in it. Let’s hope for the best. Thank you everyone

 

[Ddannison]

Oh damn. I will make the soup today. I’m gonna pick up a new enclosure with side vents. I blocked majority of the kk vents prior to intro but obviously still not enough if the sub dries so fast. I hope I didn’t fuck up. I really tried and I feel really bad for the T. Thank you all for the info. Keep it coming though cuz I really need help. I will post again tonight with my progress and the progress of the spider. I’m grateful T keepers are sympathetic people cuz I really need you all. All my other Ts are doing so well but none of them are high humid species. These are my first humid species and I hate that I’m learning the hard way

How much of the vents do you have covered? Covering too much of the ventilation can cause stuffy conditions which can be just as bad as arid conditions.

How are you moistening the substrate and How fast is the enclosure drying out?

When setting up humid burrowers I fill the enclosure layer by layer. I'll add an inch or so, thouroughly moisten,compress, and repeat adding less water to each layer until i have a nice gradient where the bottom 2/3 are nice and moist and the top is basically dry.

If you've done this right, the substrate will readily accept water when you pour it down the sides and will maintain a good humidity.

In my enclosures I have set up this way with lots of cross ventillation, I get away with moistening the sub weekly and I've gone up to 3 weeks without adding water to the sub and only seen minimal drying.
For reference, I live in Michigan and my place gets real dry in the winter.

As mentioned, adding a hide will help a lot. When I first got into keeping Ephebopus I made the same mistake and saw no burrowing until I added a cork tube. The second enclosure look too moist IMO.

What are you doing for an ER? I've found that spiders can make good recovery once conditions are corrected.

Everything is a learning experience in this hobby. Wish you the best