Dubia colony issues? Help please!

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
Ok guys so I need some help here. I started with a group of 20 adults and one baby and I was losing about one adult every two days? One or two females had babies and they all did fine. I got a little spoked by the death rate so I killed the entire colony and started over completely new. I ordered 120 adults and 100 mediums. 23 arrived dead from the shipping and I had one die yesterday and now I found nine more dead/ close to death today? I feel like I'm starting to repeat my last cycle? The first colony was fed high protein chick starter along with some other high protein pelleted foods. I was afraid then gout was my issue. Now this new group has only received baby carrots, and an organic orange along with gel water of course. Here is my setup:

I have my room at 90 degrees currently, they had baby carrots and jell water right from the start, I gave them an organic orange Tuesday night, they are all the carrots and I removed what was left of the orange. They haven't been offered anything other then the carrots orange and jell water, the bins were all cleaned twice first with simple green then second with straight water to wash them out, then they were wiped dry with a just opened roll of paper towels, my room was cleaned three times first bleached, then with a lighter cleaner and last with simple green. This includes the ceiling, light bulbs, walls, floor, shower, toilet, door, door frame everything. The lights are always off unless I'm in there so it's pitch black all the time. No one goes in or out other then me and I wash my hands before I even touch the bins let alone anything to do with the roaches. My egg cartons are all baked to over 200 degrees one at a time and stored in brand new trash bags tied shut until they are moved into the bins and obviously I wash my hands completely prior to touching the crates I have no idea what the issue would be then... If you have any ideas please let me know because I'm lost if it isn't from shipping. They are kept in 30 gallon bins that were bought brand new just for the roaches. each bin lid has two 4.25 inch holes cut in them with sanitized mesh screen over the holes. The lids and screen were then washed again after assembly. They are also all in the top bin so nothing is covering it. I also should add the room is surrounded in boric acid to prevent any foreign bugs from entering the room then each bin stack has a second barrier of boric acid around the bottom bin. The bottom bins never leave the floor either to prevent any acid falling into any other bins. The room is also at 25% humidity outside the bins. And I would assume slightly higher inside the bins. You see any issues? I am open to anything guys because I need these to work for me and my reptiles. I have them in a bathroom by the way as it has its own heater and it's cheaper to hear that little room vs a full size room. I feel like I have gone way above what anyone else would even consider doing because I want these guys to work so bad. I also should add the boric acid isn't on the bins it's on the floor at the base of the walls and across the doorway. Then the second barrier is roughly two inches away from the base of the bins. Nothing from the floor ever goes above the kids of the bins so it's not like boric acid is falling into the bins. The bottoms bins always stay on the floor just incase there is any acid dust on them so that way none falls in a different bin and the bins stacked on top of the bottom bins never touch the floor. Also all these current roaches are in a top bin so nothing is above them!
 

Tenevanica

Arachnodemon
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
726
You do know that the fumes of boric acid are toxic, right? That's my understanding anyway. I think the #1 rule of roach keeping is to never keep your roaches near a commercial roach killer.
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
I am using a powder so I figured it would be ok? The boric acid is a crystal that is really sharp and can penetrate their exoskeleton which causes them to dry out and die from my understanding of it? I figured it would be ok and it would keep my roaches from getting any unwanted visitors. Like mites or anything? If it's the powder I can certainly take it away but I figured it would be ok?

You do know that the fumes of boric acid are toxic, right? That's my understanding anyway. I think the #1 rule of roach keeping is to never keep your roaches near a commercial roach killer.
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
Also why is it affecting mainly the adults? I'm losing hardly any nymphs which you would think would be the first to be affected due to the fact that it would take far less boric acid to dehydrate and kill a nymph vs and adult?
 

Tenevanica

Arachnodemon
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
726
I am using a powder so I figured it would be ok? The boric acid is a crystal that is really sharp and can penetrate their exoskeleton which causes them to dry out and die from my understanding of it? I figured it would be ok and it would keep my roaches from getting any unwanted visitors. Like mites or anything? If it's the powder I can certainly take it away but I figured it would be ok?
There's no way of knowing for sure what's causing the deaths. Most of your care and set up looks great. The only think that makes me worried is the boric acid. Since it's the only thing that could potentially be causing it from what I can see, I'd assume it's the boric acid that's making short work of the roaches. You really don't need it. As long as your bin is set up correctly, unwanted pests should not be a problem.
 

Tenevanica

Arachnodemon
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
726
Also why is it affecting mainly the adults? I'm losing hardly any nymphs which you would think would be the first to be affected due to the fact that it would take far less boric acid to dehydrate and kill a nymph vs and adult?
I don't know the answer to that. Perhaps it's effecting both nymphs and adults equally, but you only notice the adults?
 

Dark

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Messages
538
Whole situation sounds like complete overkill. What are you raising these roaches for that you're trying to keep conditions so intensely clean? I don't know much about boric acid but I am sure it's completely unnecessary and could very well be killing your roaches from the fumes like Tenevanica said, it's also possible that the powder is so fine that it enters the air whenever anything near it is touched and could easily find its way into the bins. Like I said, I'm not an expert on boric acid but I think it's probably a bad idea. I just googled boric acid and first images that come up are roach killers, so I'd say that's the problem. Also adult male dubias don't last that long and it's possible that a lot of the ones that have died were already old when you got them.

Eric

Edit:
Examples of Boric Acid products:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Enoz-Roach-Away-Boric-Acid-1-lb/19276149
http://www.arbico-organics.com/product/boric-acid-puffer-insecticide/organic-insecticides
http://www.amazon.com/Boric-Acid-Roach-Ant-Killer/dp/B0016J1MZG
http://www.seedranch.ca/Boric-Acid-Roach-Powder-12-oz-p/boric-acid-12-oz.htm
http://www.strobel.com/newsrelease.htm
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
Hmmm alright I am raising them as feeders and I want them to be as healthy as possible... I just wanted to remove as many variables as possible ya know? I just want everything to do the best it can and I didn't want any parasites or anything to get in with them. From what I have read is that the boric acid is just sharp crystals that break down their exoskeletons which causes them to dry out? And I am losing proportionally as many females as males...
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
Now the question is if it is the boric acid is it even possible to save them or is everything already done for?
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
Ya I just took all the roaches out of the room then vacuumed the boric acid out then cleaned the entire room cleaned a bin took everything out then used new egg cartons, and put the roaches into a clean bin. I just hope they make it...
 

Hisserdude

Arachnoking
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
2,460
Also a diet of just carrots and oranges is not that good, you should offer that high protein chick feed as well as the carrots and oranges, they need some sort of protein.
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
I heard that high protein can cause gout though?

Also a diet of just carrots and oranges is not that good, you should offer that high protein chick feed as well as the carrots and oranges, they need some sort of protein.
 

Hisserdude

Arachnoking
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
2,460
I heard that high protein can cause gout though?
Perhaps if that was all you fed them, but I highly doubt it. Pretty much all I feed my roaches is dog food and carrots, along with apples for the live bearing species. So far there have been no side effects to this diet, and I got a lot of roaches.
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
This is only the third day that I have had them it's hard to believe malmurishment is killing them already?
 

Hisserdude

Arachnoking
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
2,460
No I don't think that's what is killing them right now, but you could have a problem down the line from malnutrition. I've noticed that without a source of protein, many roaches will attack each other when molting, so they should always have protein in their diet.
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
Ok so then we have to figure out what is the issue then? I talked to a big dubia breeder and he doesn't think the acid is the source of the issue. He thinks probably a combination of age of the adults paired with poor shipping is going to be a big factor. I just hope I can get stuff to settle in here and get these guys stabilized so that they stop dying. I just hope that I can pull these guys through and start seeing a turn for the better!
 

Hisserdude

Arachnoking
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
2,460
Yeah adults of some species don't handle shipping well, it's always better to ship nymphs. Your care seems to be pretty good, I don't see why the should be dying.
 

Keister

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
322
Ok so a little update I am in my room now assessing the colony for the day and I am pleased to say non have died today! I gave them new carrots and also some cherrios and they seem to really like the cherrios! The cherrios have 3% protein which isn't much but it is some! If they continue to stabilize then I will give them something with a little more protein. I'm just taking it easy for now until I know they are stabilizing!
 
Top