Do Scorp's Recognise/Remember each other?

[Kenobi]

^ ^ ^
I'm keen to get another scorpion companion for my 3i Emperor. However, I don't want another Emperor, as I'm looking for a bit of variety. I'm concidering a Red Claw (baby also).
The reason I ask this question is because I've heard Emperor's and Red Claw's do not mix, as they will most likely kill each other, but that it CAN and HAS been done before. I thought that it might be easier to keep them if I raise them both together, from juvenile to adult.
Thus, when they actually get to a threatning size, they'll have been together for so long and might live happily together. Do you think this would work?

 

[hadrurus 666]

I am really not sure although it is worth a try, but if they fight just seperate them. Them being so young doesnt help because the young pandinus species seem to have a huge appetite, and they may see each other as a potential meal.

 

[TheDill]

you can try..by all means..it all depends on your scorpions personalities..they may end up attacking each other

 

[Michiel]

Kenobi,

much is yet unknown, but Heterometrus spp. have been found in complex tunnelsystems and in families. They are supposed to recognize siblings and/ or familymembers by distinguishing feromones. I don't know if this is this the same in Pandinus, but there are certain species that can recognize eachother by means of feromones.

Doing something because it is done before by someone else is always risky. You win nothing when one of them is killed, but it is your own decision offcourse.

 

[signinsimple]

For what it's worth, there were a few threads here where people did keep these two together. Apparantly, getting both as adults, and introducing them at the same time has had success for getting them to coexist in the same tank. If they are not introduced at the same time, the one that is introduced first establishes a territory and defends it fiercely (leading to serious fights right off the top). Probably would help if you had 2 hides at opposite sides of the tank and put adults in next to each hide. Younger ones living together might get risky cause one is likely to molt before the other and the other might take advantage of that weakened state to get an easy meal (even crickets seem to know when a scorpion is weak from a fresh molt).

 

[skinheaddave]

They are supposed to recognize siblings and/ or familymembers by distinguishing feromones.

Quite aside from the pragmatic nature of the question, this is an interesting topic. I wonder if they are simply able to recognize kin (these burrows are usually made up primarily of related females and immature related males), able to recognize familiar group pheromones (scorpions of a certain species in a certain area secrete pheromone x, for example) or are actually capable of recognizing individuals. I strongly suspect the first two as possibilities, since this would just be an extension of the mechanism that allows a female to recognize her young. That being said, there have been surprises in the animal world before.

As to the question itself, pretty much any animal will let alone something it can't defeat. If they are well matched for size then the chances are they will rumble a bit and then leave each other alone .. until the day when they don't and one gets killed. I would say the odds are in favour of introducing a Heterometrus sp. and P.imperator which both show communal tendencies rather than P.cavimanus which does not do particularly well with its own kind. Of course when dealing with immatures it is trickier since they moult and that makes them weak. A second enclosure for a second scorpion may be a better way to go.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Michiel]

It is indeed interesting Dave. what I would like to know if species can detect a different species or i.e. prey items.
It's not unthinkable that the mother can "smell" her kids, so that se does not recognize them as prey, maybe this is part of the reason why scorpions "care" for their kids, in contrast to other arthropods.
The whole pheromone subject interest me.
Off topic: It is said that (human) males are in general taller then females, because humans "secrete' a lot of pheromones through the skin on their skull, and males would be taller so they can smell if their potential partner is suitable.....

PS. I would not dare to answer if they, in the way we do, can remember things at all.

 

[Brian S]

and males would be taller so they can smell if their potential partner is suitable.....

Hello Michiel,
I always wondered why you were always sniffing the air, now I know

Sorry Bro, I couldnt resist throwing a useless post in this thread hehehe

 

[skinheaddave]

It's not unthinkable that the mother can "smell" her kids, so that se does not recognize them as prey,

Took the time to re-read the relevant section in "The Biology of Scorpions." The pheremones seem to be limited to distinguishing species and not individuals ... so that would tend to indicate the same sort of precision in recognizing burrow-mates. It is unlikely that they have a more evolved ability to recognize other adults than they do their own offspring.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[pandinus]

i may be remembereing things wrong, but wasnt there once a study where they took the 1i offspring of one spp. and marked them with pheremones of a different sp. of the same genus and introduced them to surrogate females of the 2nd sp. who began to care for them? if i did actually read this it would have been years ago and i cant remember where, so i dont recall if i have my facts strait.


John

 

[Rigelus]

For what it's worth i had 4 H.cyaneus instar 4/5 in a communal setup that had been together since instar 2. Their enclosure was starting to get a bit messy so i fished them out and placed them in individual containers so that i could clean their habitat.
Unfortunatly i had guests show up just as i had started so the clean up got put on hold. It was the next day before i had finished cleaning and put the scorpions back in their new spruced up enclosure with fresh substrate and furniture.

Within 2 days one of the cyaneus's had killed 2 of the others....!

Afterwards I reasoned that after i had removed the substrate all smells/pheronomes associated with their peacefull coexsistence were now gone.
Where before they had lived peacefully together now it was if they were strangers to each other.
I don't believe they can recognise each other after a short pause whether it be visually or olfactory, although i will concede that they probably can identify each other at specie level or at least they recognise their own specie.
I also believe that the temperament of the individual scorpion has large relevance.

 

[skinheaddave]

i may be remembereing things wrong, but wasnt there once a study where they took the 1i offspring of one spp. and marked them with pheremones of a different sp. of the same genus and introduced them to surrogate females of the 2nd sp. who began to care for them?

Yep. That was summarized in the portion of the Polis book I mentioned in my last post. Point being that they seem to be able to recognize conspecifics by smell -- not necessarily (or likely) individuals, though.

Within 2 days one of the cyaneus's had killed 2 of the others....!

It is as likely that this was a result of disruption/stress and not of failure to recognize each other. You occasionally hear of these P.imperator females that go on rampages and kill all their cagemates. Inevitably they give birth shortly thereafter. Communal behaviour in scorpions seems to be a somewhat tenuous balance where slight disruptions can result in cannibalism.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Michiel]

Hello Michiel,
I always wondered why you were always sniffing the air, now I know

Sorry Bro, I couldnt resist throwing a useless post in this thread hehehe

Yeeeeeep, Brian, now ya know Olfactory analysis can prove very handy sometimes LOL Dont tell my wife

Dave et al, thanks for posting the info from TBOS from Polis, saves me some time looking for it

 

[K3jser]

Some belive that Orthochirus sp have some sort of senor in the Metasoma because they seem to scan each orther when they meet, but no real proof yet, and some scorpion speices are known for eating brothers and sisters when they are in the instar stages, but as adults they do fine and dont eat each orther.. dont belive they can rember each orther they dont really have a brain to do it so its kinda hard for them i belive..