Declawing question..

[Callie Stick]

Alright so I currently have a kitten that I absolutely love and adore even though she is a little hellion, I was wondering if declawing is as terrible and cruel as people say it is (half the people I asked haven't even ever owned a cat) I looked it up on-line and people there are divided about it too. Half say oh its alright because the cat is put under completely and cant feel anything and the other half makes it sound like your the worst owner in the world if you get it done (they were anti spay and neuter as well though :? ). I normally wouldn't consider something like that but I also own ferrets that I let run around and I'm afraid of them getting their eyes scratched or poked out. Nail trimming takes off the tips but there is still a fully functional claw there to poke out some eyes with. So is declawing a truely horrible thing? Does it really make cats personalities change and make them mean?

 

[Mushroom Spore]

Getting a cat declawed is chopping off a substantial portion of their toes for the sake of convenience, and is illegal or in the process of becoming illegal in much of the civilized world. Spaying and neutering are necessary to prevent very real, very unnecessary deaths from overpopulation (and various cancers of the reproductive organs, as well as unstoppable foul spraying in male cats), and cannot be compared.

First of all I would not allow the kitten and the ferrets to play together to begin with. I would be more concerned about the ferrets killing the kitten than the other way around (as they are predators too), and if the kitten has no claws it has little chance of defending itself and could well be torn to pieces. If the ferrets are out of the cage, the kitten is in another room. If you cannot keep them seperated - and if you are asking this question to begin with I assume you cannot - it may be best to rehome either the kitten or the ferrets.

Second, there are alternatives to declawing that do not require the cat to walk around on stumps of its toes for the rest of its life. Soft Paws are popular - basically plastic caps that are glued on over the nail and replaced every so often. But again, I do not suggest doing this in a house where the kitten may come into contact with ferrets. Declawing the kitten and leaving multiple rowdy larger predators fully armed is hardly fair.

EDIT: Also yes, there are quite a lot of cats that undergo substantial personality changes after being declawed, sometimes the result of ongoing pain and frequently involving lots of biting since that's the only weapon they have left. If someone amputated the end bone of every finger on both your hands, you'd have some personality changes too.

 

[pavel]

I would have to agree w/ MS across the board.

Spaying & neutering is in no way cruel and, as MS mentioned, has numerous beneficial facets. Those who are calling it cruel have rocks in their head.

Declawing on the other hand IS unwarranted for all the reasons MS mentioned. I've heard the excuse "but the cat is tearing up the furniture." That is only an issue if one has not provided sufficient scratching posts/pads and/or if one is too lazy to take the time to train the feline what it can and cannot sharpen its claws on. If one is unable to do either one of the latter steps, then one should not own a cat.

Then too, what if your kitten should manage to get outside someday? There are plenty of animals out there that will kill a kitten/cat if given the opportunity -- including dogs, foxes, coyotes, hawks/eagles, and members of the weasel family. A declawed cat, who has not been raised in feral circumstances in which it would have developed better survival skills, is then further disadvantaged. Lack of foreclaws can make climbing a tree or other object to safety much more difficult and an important line of defense is gone. (While I have known folks who go on a rant when a pet is killed outside by another animal, with the exception of nonferal dogs, they have no right to open their mouths. Predators hunt for food -- an any weak animal is food. The wild animals cannot simply "go hunt somewhere else" or suddenly decide to become vegan. Habitat loss due to people makes it harder and harder for them to find what they need -- and many predators require large hunting ranges.)


Also, MS is right about the ferrets -- they are a MUCH greater danger to the kitten than the kitten is to them. Keep them separated.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

Having participated in declaw procedures and post-op care MANY times myself, I can tell you that it is a brutal, inhumane, and unecessarry procedure. It mutilates the animal, causes immense acute pain and discomfort post-operatively, comes with risk of post-op complications (infection, chronic pain, etc), forces the cat to use biting as a primary defense, and essentially sentences the animal to death if it should ever escape the safety of your home.

I've seen spay/neuter patients and declaw patients post-op. Yes, spay and neuter causes some discomfort - it also prevents a wide range of cancers, dangerous wandering and territorial sex-linked behavior, pyometria, and unwanted litters. Most animals bounce back more quickly and with less pain after these procedures than I have seen in declaws. An immediately post-op declawed cat is a horrible sight. They often recover from anesthesia screaming and tearing at their own paws. Some hobble around on their elbows to avoid putting weight on their feet. There's a reason vets rarely send a cat home same-day for such a procedure; if owners had to see what they put their animals through for the sake of their convenience, the procedure would quickly be recognized as the abbomination and violation of veterinary ethics that it is.

Newer procedures that cut connective tissue rather than remove the whole digit to prevent use of the claw are no more humane and in fact often come with complications like injuries to the toes from not being able to sheathe the claw, as well as growth of the claw into the paw pads if the owner is imprudent about clipping.

Trim, use products to cover the claws, utilize scratching posts, use training (YES cats can be easily trained), don't let your kitten run amok with your ferrets, but never, ever mutilate an animal for the sake of your convenience or preference.

 

[cacoseraph]

from the tiny bit i know about declawing they usually take the front feet claws, only, right?


well, when i rough house with my cat he uses the front claws to hold me and the back claws to hurt me... so you probably wouldn't be making things that much safer for the ferrets


a lot of people like to modify their higher animals for their own convenience and then try to make themselves feel better about it by rationalizing that it doesn't really hurt the animal that much or whatever... but really... cats aren't so different from humans that we can't draw parallels... and having your fingers mangled would be awful!

 

[kitty_b]

i'm not one who gets in fevered arguments about things like declawing, but i'm opposed to it. so i'll just give my personal opinions and experiences.

i assisted in several declawings when i was a vet tech. looking back, i feel awful for doing it. it's typically only done in kittens where i worked, but even then there was obvious pain and recovery time. they're out when it done (and they're pretty much no blood), but they wake up to severed ligaments on every toe. think about if you woke up and all your fingernails had been cut or pulled off.

i've also personally experienced the increased "aggressiveness" (defensiveness) in cats that have been declawed. they seem to know they're missing some of their defenses and become a lot more prone to biting.

in the end, i'd recommend the soft paws if nail trimming isn't enough for you. most cats will "bat" with their claws withdrawn, so the risks of injury while playing with ferrets is more of an issue if serious wrestling occurs. my 5 cats and 2 dogs all play together and no one has suffered serious injuries.

 

[Callie Stick]

Good lord thank you guys for your input ...I just looked up the Soft paws and they are super cute! I've never heard of them before.
I also didnt mean to come off as naive or dumb for considering it. I just wanted facts and opinions about it.
so again thank you.

 

[LeilaNami]

As said before, declawing by the old method is the amputation of the first joint of the toes. It's very painful and the risk of infection is very high. It throws off the skeletal structure of the cat.
Soft Paws are great! They come in different colors and you can have fun with them. They usually shed off every 4-6 weeks.
Just as FYI though, there is a less barbaric declaw procedure (though I still am opposed to it). It involves a laser that immobilizes the muscles in the toes that retract and extend the nails. It's pretty much painless with a one day recovery time and noninvasive.
I still don't support the declaw for the simple fact of "What if the cat gets out?" It's really a matter of when rather than if and I'd rather have my animal able to protect herself the way she should.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

Just as FYI though, there is a less barbaric declaw procedure (though I still am opposed to it). It involves a laser that immobilizes the muscles in the toes that retract and extend the nails. It's pretty much painless with a one day recovery time and noninvasive.

However:
"Tendonectomy involves cutting the deep digital flexor tendon of each claw, resulting in the cat being unable to move its distal phalanges. Without the ability to expose its claws, the cat is unable to wear down or groom its claws. For this reason, the cat subsequently requires a lifetime of regular nail clippings to prevent its claws from growing into its paw pads. A 1998 study published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association comparing cats undergoing onychectomy to cats undergoing tendonectomy found that, although the cats undergoing tendonectomy appeared to suffer less pain immediately post-operatively, there was no significant difference in postoperative lameness, bleeding, or infection between the two groups.[21] The American Veterinary Medical Association and the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association explicitly do not recommend this surgery as an alternative to declawing[7][22]."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onychectomy#Alternatives_to_declawing

As well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendonectomy

Short version is that both operations have the same rate of health complications afterward, and the tendonectomy requires regular nail clipping for the rest of the cat's life or the claws will grow into their own flesh. As well as the risk of painful split/shattered nails in their old age.

So basically it's less immediately painful but still not a good thing, OP.

My mom adopted a third cat a few years back, and we didn't realize this cat had had the tendonectomy until we noticed she kept trying to claw at scratching posts (and an old rug the cats are allowed to tear up) but couldn't actually do anything. It seems to cause this cat some confusion and distress to this day - she tries to engage in instinctive scratching behaviors and doesn't seem to understand why it doesn't work. It's pretty sad.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

Agreed with Mushroomspore; I alluded to this procedure in my first post, and as already mentioned, there is also a heightened risk of toe injury. The cat's claws were not designed to just be hanging limply, period; they get caught up in things and cause pretty gruesome foot and nail injuries. In short, there is no "better" way to mutilate a cat; if people can't handle an animal with claws, they have no right owning such a species.

 

[LeilaNami]

Agreed with Mushroomspore; I alluded to this procedure in my first post, and as already mentioned, there is also a heightened risk of toe injury. The cat's claws were not designed to just be hanging limply, period; they get caught up in things and cause pretty gruesome foot and nail injuries. In short, there is no "better" way to mutilate a cat; if people can't handle an animal with claws, they have no right owning such a species.

Ah ok I didn't realize the long term effects of the laser procedure. Thanks for pointing it out. I agree with the mutilation though. I would never get my animals declawed. I prefer them natural. I also hate it when people get their exotics declawed and have their canines yanked out.

 

[blacktara]

Cruel and totaally unecessary. Please dont even consider maiming your little friend

 

[Hedorah99]

It was touched upon before, but the psychological damage to the animal is pretty apparent as well. Imagine not having fingers, because that's what it is. You are not removing nails, you are removing the ends of the toes.

 

[blazetown]

My cat was essentially force neutered and de-clawed at a young age. The neutering ended up with about $500 worth of vet bills in later life. He was too young and because of that had a narrow urethra (hank hill?) and ended up with bladder crystals. On the actual topic though he never had a problem from being de-clawed and still manages to kick the crap out of anything with his adequate back claws. It was a parental thing not my choice so don't flame me spore.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

It was a parental thing not my choice so don't flame me spore.

Why would I flame you?

 

[pouchedrat]

I wouldn't do it either. We grew up with cats, and my mother used to get them declawed because of her kids. Well to this day she has two older cats (one 15 the other 12) who are declawed, and two "younger" (younger than 10 at least) cats who are not. One of the older cats has resorted to biting instead since she has no claws, and both declawed cats use their back legs to kick/dig into you instead, which I find far worse. The "younger" non-declawed cats? Well, both are feral, so they claw you up too, they're not great examples, lol. If you ever see a cat right after a declawing, it's a pretty terrible thing, they're trying to walk on their front legs that are completely bandaged up, and trying to use a litter box with little success (and with mom's one cat, she'd wind up just peeing wherever because it hurt to dig at the litter. She's not like that now, but she was when it was done to her).

My fiance and I live with two strictly indoor only cats, NEITHER declawed, and a 3 1/2 year old son with ADHD. I can say he has never been clawed at, ever, and they don't use the furniture as scratching posts either. But we clip their nails quite regularly along with the two rabbits and the evil ferret, so yeah. They also have a cat tree to claw at, and choose that instead. There are soft claw options like mentioned before, although I've never used them I do know some people who do. They need to be refreshed every so often, as they just pop off. OH and since it's a kitten, PLAY with those toes and feet and claws as much as you can, get it used to you pushing the nails in and out regularly, and it'll be MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to work with clipping nails/putting on soft claws/etc later! I play with my cats' nails and feet constantly and because of that they aren't super-sensitive about me going down there and clipping them, they're quite used to it.

And as an owner of a super-aggressive ferret who draws blood when she bites, I can say that those ferrets are definitely not defenseless against a kitten. While my ferret gets along fine with my two cats (just not us humans), I worry more about the ADULT cats getting hurt than I do the ferret! They're sneaky little predators and a kitten is definitely no match against them.

 

[Flower]

My mom had our cat's declawed at a young age so they wouldn't ruin the furniture.

Only one cat is left, but all three were sweet and didn't seem to be psychologically marred or whatever. I was a little kid when they were declawed, and I remember my kitten, Sammy after the procedure. He would cry constantly for about a week and didn't want to walk on his hurt and bandaged feet.

I don't think you're Hitler for declawing a cat or something and I won't judge, but it's like people who cut a dog's vocal chords surgically because the barking annoys them -- if you don't like the barking, why would you get a dog? Same with a cat, if you don't like clawing, why not get another animal?

 

[blazetown]

Why would I flame you?

LOL...Just making sure I don't get blamed for things that aren't my fault. My cat also became a biting monster at a young age from being declawed. As for the last two posts, I would agree that the ferret would be best not left unsupervised around cats.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

LOL...Just making sure I don't get blamed for things that aren't my fault.

Since I'm not in the habit of doing that, I'd say you're in the clear.

Still not sure why you singled me out for that comment, I'm not in the habit of flaming people and I don't really appreciate it. (I give honest responses, yes. No-nonsense responses, yes. Blunt responses, even. OMG HAET YUO!!1 flames, no. I'm tired of people acting like the first three automatically equate to the last.)

EDIT: Removed off-topic grouching about people PMing me to demand I use more smiley faces.

 

[blazetown]

Lol I'm sorry to jump to conclusions over someone I don't know.