Cricket Sickos

[mickiem]

Something weird my way came.... We had a new cricket vendor at a show. It was really odd - the boxes were about 6" cubes holding 1000 crickets each. I bought 4 boxes. I had the cricket enclosures clean and ready to go at home and since the boxes were so small, I released them immediately. About 1/2 the crickets were dead. But there were still over 1000 in each box. Grossly overcounted and packed. I use water crystals and the water is 1/2" or so below the level of crystals. There is about 1" of space above the water crystals (we are painting a picture here...). I added oranges, carrots and romaine - same as always. The next morning there was a putrid smell coming from the new crickets. I looked in and the water bowl was filled with milky, white liquid and a few hundred dead crickets. The liquid had to come from the crickets because the crystals were 100% saturated. I cleaned that bowl and added new. The next day the same thing happened with a little less liquid. I lived through the great cricket shortages of the 70's and again in 2010. I am a little paranoid about cricket diseases. (AdDNV or CrPV) But anyway, I threw all the crickets away. I was afraid I would make my animals sick. So what do you think about this and mostly what was that white milky liquid? I'm pretty sure I could vaporize a cricket and it wouldn't be milky white liquid.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Not sure about the milky white stuff, but cricket deaths and cannibalism always happened to mine so I switched to B. lat roaches. Like others have said I'll never look back to crickets. I did everything right and the crickets still died within days.

 

[DrT loves Ts]

That's fascinating. Did you take any photographs? I have no idea and haven't ever seen this with my crickets. Do you think the vendor was feeding the crickets something unusual?

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

Yikes. Anyone who's willing to pack 1000 crickets in a 6" cube isn't someone I want to buy crickets from, tbh. Obviously not concerned about their health at all.

 

[mickiem]

Yikes. Anyone who's willing to pack 1000 crickets in a 6" cube isn't someone I want to buy crickets from, tbh. Obviously not concerned about their health at all.

IKR?! I had stretched the time I didn't have crickets and everyone needed to eat. It would have cost me over $100 pet store dollars to get enough crickets for them. But that's a very good point.

 

[mickiem]

That's fascinating. Did you take any photographs? I have no idea and haven't ever seen this with my crickets. Do you think the vendor was feeding the crickets something unusual?

I didn't even think to take photos. The smell was atrocious. I can't imagine anything they could feed that would have turned into that smell in a day. I can't wait to hear from others who bought the same crickets.Maybe with their experiences we can put something together. I'm driving 3 1/2 hours tomorrow (each way; 7 hrs) to get crickets from someone I trust. I know some people who have been experimenting with killing parasites and other pathogens in Dubias and Superworms. Maybe they overdosed?

 

[JonnyTorch]

I'm driving 3 1/2 hours tomorrow

7 hours driving for crickets.. seems overkill. You can get boxes of large amounts from Joshs Frogs they have banded crickets they last longer than others and they ship fast.

 

[mickiem]

Not sure about the milky white stuff, but cricket deaths and cannibalism always happened to mine so I switched to B. lat roaches. Like others have said I'll never look back to crickets. I did everything right and the crickets still died within days.

I rarely have problems. This was super unusual. I think there are a few different species of cricket in the hobby. Some are more cannibalistic and some are more noisy. I think the striped ones are the best. I might have to raise my own. I raise dubias but they grow/reproduce too slow to keep up feeding.

 

[JonnyTorch]

I raise dubias but they grow/reproduce too slow to keep up feeding.

Yes banded crickets. My T's hated dubia roaches and so did I. Lol

 

[mickiem]

7 hours driving for crickets.. seems overkill. You can get boxes of large amounts from Joshs Frogs they have banded crickets they last longer than others and they ship fast.

I might be looking for Armadillo lizards, Emerald Tree Skinks and PBS as well! I do buy from Josh's. I just didn't want to buy on a Thursday. It's usually about $13 to ship overnight. It usually isn't a problem but shipping is so unreliable right now. I just want crickets in my hands asap. Josh's is probably my favorite crickets to feed but I buy from expos to save money. 4K dead crickets wasn't a money saving endeavor this time.

 

[mickiem]

Yes banded crickets. My T's hated dubia roaches and so did I. Lol

I keep the dubias around for some of my guys who need something bigger that a cricket. My 3 y/o Pixie frog loves big dubias and night crawlers!

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Something weird my way came.... We had a new cricket vendor at a show. It was really odd - the boxes were about 6" cubes holding 1000 crickets each. I bought 4 boxes. I had the cricket enclosures clean and ready to go at home and since the boxes were so small, I released them immediately. About 1/2 the crickets were dead. But there were still over 1000 in each box. Grossly overcounted and packed. I use water crystals and the water is 1/2" or so below the level of crystals. There is about 1" of space above the water crystals (we are painting a picture here...). I added oranges, carrots and romaine - same as always. The next morning there was a putrid smell coming from the new crickets. I looked in and the water bowl was filled with milky, white liquid and a few hundred dead crickets. The liquid had to come from the crickets because the crystals were 100% saturated. I cleaned that bowl and added new. The next day the same thing happened with a little less liquid. I lived through the great cricket shortages of the 70's and again in 2010. I am a little paranoid about cricket diseases. (AdDNV or CrPV) But anyway, I threw all the crickets away. I was afraid I would make my animals sick. So what do you think about this and mostly what was that white milky liquid? I'm pretty sure I could vaporize a cricket and it wouldn't be milky white liquid.

None of this makes any sense. There was supposed to be 1000 crickets in a 6 inch box, 4 were bought (4000 crickets were intended to be purchased), half of the crickets were dead in each box (?), but there were still 1000 live crickets per box. So, each 6 inch box actually contained 2000 crickets for a total of 8000 crickets purchased, half of each box died leaving a grand total of 4000 crickets that survived? Then only a few hundred were found dead in the water the next day? If so, then you still had a few thousand left alive that were thrown away?

What size were the crickets? Full grown adults, half inch, pinheads, what?
What does "there is about 1 inch of space above the water crystals" mean?

I have no idea what is going on here, but I can say that overcrowding is a good way to quickly kill crickets. Crickets need a lot of standing room and ventilation to prevent suffocation. They have a "live fast, die young" lifecycle and need a lot of food, water, space, and fresh air to survive. If crickets are overcrowded and even a few die, the rest will start dying from bacterial infections. Crickets have a really thin exoskeleton which means they decompose fast and their body fluids leak all over the place causing a big, smelly, bacteria riddled mess. When they die in water, the water accelerates decomposition turning it white.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Cricket vendors at shows may be the breeder, but are statistically more likely to be resellers. In this latter case, they got those crickets overnighted for receipt at best on Friday, so those crickets were packed Thursday at the latest. You get them Sat or Sun and they're a couple days in the box already.

Getting feeders overnighted from the breeder is a good bet -- you get them about 18 hours after they get packed. FedEx is a little strained lately, but they will get to you faster than the show pickup method, plus there will be a LAG on that shipment

 

[darkness975]

Something weird my way came.... We had a new cricket vendor at a show. It was really odd - the boxes were about 6" cubes holding 1000 crickets each. I bought 4 boxes. I had the cricket enclosures clean and ready to go at home and since the boxes were so small, I released them immediately. About 1/2 the crickets were dead. But there were still over 1000 in each box. Grossly overcounted and packed. I use water crystals and the water is 1/2" or so below the level of crystals. There is about 1" of space above the water crystals (we are painting a picture here...). I added oranges, carrots and romaine - same as always. The next morning there was a putrid smell coming from the new crickets. I looked in and the water bowl was filled with milky, white liquid and a few hundred dead crickets. The liquid had to come from the crickets because the crystals were 100% saturated. I cleaned that bowl and added new. The next day the same thing happened with a little less liquid. I lived through the great cricket shortages of the 70's and again in 2010. I am a little paranoid about cricket diseases. (AdDNV or CrPV) But anyway, I threw all the crickets away. I was afraid I would make my animals sick. So what do you think about this and mostly what was that white milky liquid? I'm pretty sure I could vaporize a cricket and it wouldn't be milky white liquid.

Use banded crickets instead. G. sigillatus.
And that vendor sounds like they had overpacked and likely not super healthy stock.

 

[mickiem]

None of this makes any sense. There was supposed to be 1000 crickets in a 6 inch box, 4 were bought (4000 crickets were intended to be purchased), half of the crickets were dead in each box (?), but there were still 1000 live crickets per box. So, each 6 inch box actually contained 2000 crickets for a total of 8000 crickets purchased, half of each box died leaving a grand total of 4000 crickets that survived? Then only a few hundred were found dead in the water the next day? If so, then you still had a few thousand left alive that were thrown away?

What size were the crickets? Full grown adults, half inch, pinheads, what?
What does "there is about 1 inch of space above the water crystals" mean?

I have no idea what is going on here, but I can say that overcrowding is a good way to quickly kill crickets. Crickets need a lot of standing room and ventilation to prevent suffocation. They have a "live fast, die young" lifecycle and need a lot of food, water, space, and fresh air to survive. If crickets are overcrowded and even a few die, the rest will start dying from bacterial infections. Crickets have a really thin exoskeleton which means they decompose fast and their body fluids leak all over the place causing a big, smelly, bacteria riddled mess. When they die in water, the water accelerates decomposition turning it white.

There were suppose to be 1000 crickets to a box. The boxes were 6" cubes. I bought 4 boxes. 2 boxes of 1/4" crickets and 2 boxes of 1/2" crickets. The boxes were overpacked. I estimated there were about 2000 in each 6" cubed box; 1000 dead and 1000 alive. When I put them away at home, they were spread among 4 bins. Each bin had a high number of dead crickets; up to a few hundred each the next day and the next. I threw them away because I had a fear they were diseased. The white milky stuff was something I had never seen. We are below freezing here so any left alive will be frozen outside.

I use ceramic crocks for water. I soak the water crystals overnight and fill each crock about 1/2 full. I pour extra water in the bowls but keep it below the level of crystals so crickets don't drown. I don't fill the crocks to the top because I don't want to accidentally pour any water out if I tip the bins when moving them off the shelf. I don't like moisture in my cricket bins. When they were placed in my bins, they were not crowded. Plenty of fresh organic healthy clean food. Plenty of brand new egg crates. No dead crickets went in. Fresh clean bin.

I have had entire shipments of crickets come in dead and it is an awful smell. But this smell was 10X worse and different. If the milky white was just decomp, it happened faster than I've ever seen. I'm not sure if I said anything to make the situation more clear. Sorry if I confused you.

 

[DrT loves Ts]

Takeaway messages: buy crickets somewhere else, and try banded crickets instead.
I've never used or seen banded crickets before. Now I want to give them a try now.
Thanks for the information.

 

[TheInv4sion]

Another thing worth noting is if you arent in a serious rush I've just driven to petsmart and bought 8 crickets put in a tupperware of substrate and waited. 3-4 weeks later hundreds of pinheads.

 

[Introvertebrate]

.........and the big pet store franchises typically still use Acheta domesticus, so they can’t be all bad.