Breeding questions, is it worth the risk?

[Dannica]

Hello everyone, I’m looking for some opinions regarding breeding Acanthoscurria musculosa! I have a large adult female, approximately six inches DLS, and acquired a mature male about a month ago. I purchased the female on February 18th, and she has not eaten in my care. The previous owner did not know the date of her last molt. I offered food weekly, until March 9th, when she burrowed down in the substrate, and sealed the entrance. I assumed premolt, considering the food refusal, the sealed burrow, and a more dull appearance (I’ll attach photos). She was extremely plump when I purchased her, so I’m not concerned about her not eating, and I’ve caught her drinking in multiple occasions. Also, @cold blood did point out to me that her abdomen is slightly misshapen, so I’m curious to hear your takes on that as well.

The mature make has eaten twice, is constantly drinking, and has made several sperm webs. He matured on May 18th, 2018.

So the situation I am currently facing is as follows:
She has re-emerged from her burrow and is sitting out in the open, but has not molted. Is it worth the risk to attempt a pairing, knowing that she may molt out? Alternatively, I wait until she molts, risking losing the mature male while waiting. If she does molt out soon, I would hopefully have the opportunity to pair her again. I am concerned about waiting too long, as finding a mature male wasn’t an easy task, and I’d like to be able to fulfill his purpose before he passes on.

I’ve attached photos of the female both the day I received her as well as today. I’ve also attached a photo of some sperm webs, as well as a terrible quality photo of the MM, as he is rather skiddish.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Olan]

I would guess premolt. Risky either way. I would probably wait though. Tough to breed a female when you don’t know her molting history.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I’d say I can’t tell from pic but I’d ber abdomen is dark to you it’s risky. I’d breed them see , if she molts. What was her last molt? Females can be years in between sometimes males dead before the next one . I’ve seen 3+ year molts and some once a year and a half.

 

[Dannica]

I would guess premolt. Risky either way. I would probably wait though. Tough to breed a female when you don’t know her molting history.

That’s the struggle, is trying to find a balance between waiting, or risking it now. I may consider shark tanking the male, and seeing how she reacts before making a decision.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

That’s the struggle, is trying to find a balance between waiting, or risking it now. I may consider shark tanking the male, and seeing how she reacts before making a decision.

Good idea

 

[cold blood]

Now here's the thing, you know its close to molting with that dark skin...but we can't know when that molt will arrive.

I have had several instances where I paired a female that was really fat and near a molt and gotten really quick sacs as a result. Its my contention that many times females holding eggs will delay that molt awaiting a male. Also just as often, the paring will seem to induce a molt....which wouldn't be a bad thing in this instance....provided the male made it out safely. Getting that MM paired as quickly as possible s certainly what you want, so her molt out wouldn't be a negative.....worst case scenario is her not molting until he's out of commission...I know he wasn't free.

Now knowing she isn't eating would generally mean his chances of getting munched should be pretty low....so there's risk, but maybe not as much as one might think.

Shark tanking may give you that indicator of her mood and I do think its worth a shot.

Ether way, best of luck, the hobby needs more of this species available.

 

[Dannica]

Now here's the thing, you know its close to molting with that dark skin...but we can't know when that molt will arrive.

I have had several instances where I paired a female that was really fat and near a molt and gotten really quick sacs as a result. Its my contention that many times females holding eggs will delay that molt awaiting a male. Also just as often, the paring will seem to induce a molt....which wouldn't be a bad thing in this instance....provided the male made it out safely. Getting that MM paired as quickly as possible s certainly what you want, so her molt out wouldn't be a negative.....worst case scenario is her not molting until he's out of commission...I know he wasn't free.

Now knowing she isn't eating would generally mean his chances of getting munched should be pretty low....so there's risk, but maybe not as much as one might think.

Shark tanking may give you that indicator of her mood and I do think its worth a shot.

Ether way, best of luck, the hobby needs more of this species available.

I’m going to shark tank them tonight, see how things play out, and if it looks like she’s showing any interest, I’ll give it a go. This may end in a very expensive meal, but I think she’s more likely to just be disinterested, as opposed to aggressive.

Edited to add, I’ll certainly keep everyone updated, and I’m sure I’ll be in communication Dennis as things progress!

 

[cold blood]

I’m going to shark tank them tonight, see how things play out, and if it looks like she’s showing any interest, I’ll give it a go. This may end in a very expensive meal, but I think she’s more likely to just be disinterested, as opposed to aggressive.

Edited to add, I’ll certainly keep everyone updated, and I’m sure I’ll be in communication Dennis as things progress!

Well she hasn't been accepting food for a while now, so I would be surprised if she actually munched him.

Well she hasn't been accepting food for a while now, so I would be surprised if she actually munched him.

I offered again last night, and she let the dubia run circles around her with no reaction, so I’m guessing she isn’t hungry.

 

[aphono]

Curious- how do you shark tank tarantulas?

 

[cold blood]

Put the male--either in its enclosure, or a deli cup--into the female's cage. Male is trapped in a "shark cage" type situation.

 

[aphono]

Put the male--either in its enclosure, or a deli cup--into the female's cage. Male is trapped in a "shark cage" type situation.

Thanks! That's the basic idea I got.. just not sure what the finer details were. Could the webbing be used as a test- pull some webbing from both & place in opposite enclosures?

 

[Dannica]

Thanks! That's the basic idea I got.. just not sure what the finer details were. Could the webbing be used as a test- pull some webbing from both & place in opposite enclosures?

I know we used a strand of webbing to help entice the male during the pairing of an Avicularia avicularia, but unfortunately this particular genus doesn’t tend to web much, so that isn’t really an option here.

Both showed interest during shark tanking the male, with her tapping around the deli cup, and he even made a sperm web inside it. I decided to attempt to pair them last night around 11pm, and introduced the male into the opposite corner of her enclosure. He approached, and they remained motionless for around 20 minutes, before he made a move in her direction. She reacted quickly with a threat posture, and he darted out of the enclosure. Not sure if I should give it another go, or just hope she molts soon enough that he will still be viable.

 

[aphono]

Thanks for the reply re: using web as test for breeding readiness. I was wondering about heavy webbers when asking that but after thinking about it, even non-webbers lay down invisible webs on the substrate don't they? This thread was the first I'd read about shark tanking.

That pause must have been stressful! Glad he got out intact. And good luck!

 

[Dannica]

Thanks for the reply re: using web as test for breeding readiness. I was wondering about heavy webbers when asking that but after thinking about it, even non-webbers lay down invisible webs on the substrate don't they? This thread was the first I'd read about shark tanking.

That pause must have been stressful! Glad he got out intact. And good luck!

It was definitely a little nerve wracking, I just sat and stared intently, holding tongs and a ruler to break them up if needed!

There may be a possibility of webbing by her, but unfortunately it seems as if she is the one uninterested, as the male definitely knows she is there.

 

[Dannica]

I figured I’d update this post now that all this has finished up. As the male was small, and had been mature quite some time, I was starting to worry about his efficacy. I offered him up to anyone else with a mature female, and nobody had one.

I made the decision to just cohab them until the end, in hopes that it could be a last ditch effort at a sac. When I placed him in her enclosure, he dove straight into her burrow, and I assumed that was the end of him. This was Thursday evening. Friday morning, I found both of them outside her burrow, alive. I continued cohabbing them, and woke up this morning to find her munching him. This is her first meal in around 14 months. Fingers crossed he managed to get it in before becoming her brunch meal! There are remains of a sperm web inside her enclosure that was not there yesterday afternoon, so I’m taking that as a hopeful sign!

I know it may be controversial to have kept them together, knowing that he wasn’t likely to get eaten, but it had come to a point where he was either going to die in his own enclosure, or be eaten by her and provide sustenance for another creature.

 

[Uial]

Male Spiderdom is rough^^
I do hope it works out though, there are never enough spiderbabys in the world .