Blondi vs Mouse

[ShaunHolder]

Good idea, but then agian, you would want your T eating duct tape.

Or getting stuck to it. Thats cool about the ether. I didn't know. I'd take the refreigerator method before the ether, but still cool to know either way. Thanks!

 

[MizM]

It is a little known fact that Ts are often seen feeding on roadkill. Check with anyone over at the ATS for confirmation.

I believe that ALL creatures should have a varied diet. My son's pet mice get ham, corn, grains, and anything else that makes them happy and healthy.

My Ts get crix, cockroaches, mice (but not my SON'S mice ) worms and anything else that makes them happy and healthy.

If a tarantula would, in nature, eat a live mouse, then no government has a right to say they can't! Mice suffer, crix suffer, Ts suffer, HUMANS suffer. Life isn't and never will be painless for any living thing.

If your blondi enjoys eating live adult mice, then LET HER HAVE 'EM!!! And if it bugs anyone else, sorry. You ARE entitled to your opinion and it may differ from others. But THAT'S O.K.

 

[woijchik89]

If a tarantula would, in nature, eat a live mouse, then no government has a right to say they can't! Mice suffer, crix suffer, Ts suffer, HUMANS suffer. Life isn't and never will be painless for any living thing.

Well put! I couldn't have said it any better.

 

[FryLock]

If a tarantula would, in nature, eat a live mouse, then no government has a right to say they can't! Mice suffer, crix suffer, Ts suffer, HUMANS suffer. Life isn't and never will be painless for any living thing.

If your blondi enjoys eating live adult mice, then LET HER HAVE 'EM!!! And if it bugs anyone else, sorry. You ARE entitled to your opinion and it may differ from others. But THAT'S O.K.

Personally as Andy and many other on this thread have said the fact ppl feed live rodents too there inverts bothers me not one bit, but MizM with out flaming you or anyone else surely the point the “spider enjoys eating live mice” is an improvability in truth it should read “I enjoy feeding live mice to MY spider” :?

 

[FelixA9]

Personally as Andy and many other on this thread have said the fact ppl feed live rodents too there inverts bothers me not one bit, but MizM with out flaming you or anyone else surely the point the “spider enjoys eating live mice” is an improvability in truth it should read “I enjoy feeding live mice to MY spider” :?

You could always do the Pepsi Challenge. Put in a piece of chicken and a live mouse and see which one the T goes after. You'd have to do several tests to reduce the chance factor but I'm sure the T would be game. The fact that T's are geared for sensing motion rather than the ripe waft of carrion suggests that yes, it is in fact provable that T's prefer live food. You don't see too many dead frogs that are still hoppin'

 

[FelixA9]

Stewart was talking on behalf of those that impose the English laws, not his personal views. You've got to understand that vertebrates are considered to be capable of 'experiencing sensation or feeling' -being sentient- most probably due to their similarities to humans, aswell as the popularity of them as pet species. I'd think that the extreme amount of vertebrate domestication has lead to this, and for terms such as "intelligence" being applicable. There's also other factors, that based on no research I may guess has to do further with human similarites. Things such as lifestyles, lifespan, reproduction etc, that humans generally respect and nurture. Also beliefs that are portrayed through parenting in regards to animals such as dogs etc. I'll stop with this for now...

Intelligence, as we adminstrate the word, doesn't apply to 'instinctal behaviour'; it's this type of intelligence you're talking about that has moulded every species of invert to live the way it does:

Actually cephalopods are very intelligent on the animal scale and they don't have spines and have demonstrated the ability to learn. IMO it's ENTIRELY due to "feeding a mammal to a fanged creepy thing gives me the willies" that some people frown on feeding mice and such to bugs and reptiles. Hit's a little too close to home for them apparently. People don't think twice about a cow getting it's throat slit so they can have their Big Mac or a cat batting a mouse around for half an hour. Come to think if it, if you use a cat to keep the mice under control do you go to jail for that too? :?

 

[FryLock]

Indeed true but the fact remains and as I have always found too be the case they will do both equally without any clear preference, i.e. they would kill the moving thing if was dropped in closest then find the dead food when making a feeding mat!, drop a dead food item near by the spider and that one movement is often enough after tasting with a foot the food with be taken (if the spider is hungry) as regards predators taking live food over dead it’s a know fact dead is a lot easer.

You assume that most animals dont want to scavenge. This is quite the opposite. Most generalist predators will preferentially scavenge over hunting live prey. This is because the energy and risk involved in eating a scavenged prey is far less that actively hunting and killing prey. The vast majority of generalist invertebrate predators will do this. Your belief that the tarantula will somehow be 'happy' if it is fed live prey is wrong.

 

[FryLock]

Come to think if it, if you use a cat to keep the mice under control do you go to jail for that too? :?

Humm i think thats been covered just a few times..

 

[FryLock]

IMO it's ENTIRELY due to "feeding a mammal to a fanged creepy thing gives me the willies" that some people frown on feeding mice and such to bugs and reptiles. Hit's a little too close to home for them apparently.

Nope i have too be blunt here (Flame retarded sprayed ;P ) IMO its because it may be alot eazer for ppl too chuk a live mouse at something then to kill it with there own hands

 

[MizM]

Personally as Andy and many other on this thread have said the fact ppl feed live rodents too there inverts bothers me not one bit, but MizM with out flaming you or anyone else surely the point the “spider enjoys eating live mice” is an improvability in truth it should read “I enjoy feeding live mice to MY spider” :?

In MY case, I DO NOT enjoy it, especially when the fuzzy little thing squeaks in pain! But, to facilitate a varied diet, it is a necessity! Good thing I'm wearing my asbestos muu muu today!!

 

[woijchik89]

the point the “spider enjoys eating live mice” is an improvability in truth it should read “I enjoy feeding live mice to MY spider” :?

Not really, alot of spiders would rather eat something moving rather than something still and defrosted. It's easier for them to catch something moving, this helps it by it KNOWING THE MOUSE IS THERE. If its not moving, nor it doesn't give off thermal energy to the T its nothing more than an oddly shaped object.
It can also be more convenient to just put a mouse in the cage, rather than grabbing it with forcepts and move it around until your T finally notices it.
Sure, a T can learn to eat still food, but they aren't like cats, they haven't been trained for generations upon generations to go against their instincts and become more of a "pet," then a wild caught animal." Alot of Ts (or any other arachnid) are bought wildcaught. When you feed them still food you are going against their natural instincts.
If you want to feed your Ts live food fine. If you prefer to feed your T still food, be my guest, just don't accuse everyone of being childish kids who just want to see a T eat something rather than doing it for their own good.
Everybody has their own preferences and reasons for doing things differently.

~LaTeR~

-Ben

 

[FryLock]

Ok last one from me here on this as some much as allready been said for starters Ben im sorry if I came over as treating you or anyone else as childish, ok as said IMO its fine for others too play it as they wish or see fit with regards too feeding live verts, be it to inverts or herps for myself I pre kill any feeder rodents for the following reasons,
1 to stay on the side of the law over here 2 it means I can use fuzzy and larger mice as food items without any worries of damage to the animal being fed 3 for me it’s a lot easer if in this case a spider does not eat it (and IME that is very rare) and it still there say an hour later it can be froze and offered too that spider again (no waste) and lastly 4 i allways give them a quicker "exit" then i know many spiders (and quite a few other same sized animals) can.

Now the only reason I posted again in this thread was after all the older arguments had run there course (and there were many good points on all sides) the same flawed reasons for feeding still live prey began too come back (they for a fact like live over dead/in the wild they don’t scavenge) NOT because ppl were still saying there going too keep feeding live mice to spiders, as stated by just about everyone on all sides “do what you like” in that respect, too end I still believe at least 9 times out of 10 (iv found it too be much higher in 1000’s of cases) a hungy T will eat just about any good food item even if its not moving (BTW this is from 15 of snake keeping and 18 years of keeping/breeding t’s).

Cheers Bill.

 

[FelixA9]

Nope i have too be blunt here (Flame retarded sprayed ;P ) IMO its because it may be alot eazer for ppl too chuk a live mouse at something then to kill it with there own hands

LOL no flame retardant needed Maybe if MORE people fed their T's live food they break the tarantula porn addiction.

 

[LPacker79]

If its not moving, nor it doesn't give off thermal energy to the T its nothing more than an oddly shaped object.

Actually, that's not quite true. T's possess chemoreceptors that help it locate prey. Dead or alive, warm or cold they will find it.

 

[stewartb]

Hello all.

As with Fry, this will be my final post on this subject.

Whilst I respect everyone opinion on this subject, no one will convince me that spiders need or benefit from being fed live verterbrates.

Live verts fed to a spider will suffer to a greater extent than being euthanised through a more humane method. (This is why there are laws on how to kill animals for human and animal consumption. Some methods of killing are deemed to be humane, others are not.)

I am still yet to find a spider that will not accept defrost. ( I would suggest as Fry mentioned that is would be in the spiders interest to have defrosted verts rather than live. Less energy wasted to kill, does,nt fight back, etc.)
If your spider does not eat defrosted verts, then prehaps it is not that hungry, and does not need the food.

With these two arguments in mind, I maintain that it is un-necessary to feed live verts to spiders. However, as noted previously, I do not condem those who wish to do it. It is simply a case of what the individual finds acceptable.

With regards to live crickets being fed to spiders, there are a couple of points. Firstly, if a spider is to eat an invert, then it does need to be live (In most cases), and thus a necerssary requirement. Secondaly, crickets are considered to be less sentient than verts. Due to this it is argued that they have less "self awareness" and therefore do not suffer in that way that a vert would both prior to and during the kill.

At the end of the day, the UK laws exist to prevent un-necerssary suffering. If an individual wants to feed a live mouse to their spider, that is their decision, and I would not be too fussed if they chose to do it. All I would suggest is that it does not need to be done, it should not be splatted on the net in a way that suggests a type of egotistical "gorefactor" entertainment, it does not require spurious arguments to justify it and if your spider does get injured, then I am afraid that that is a risk you take.


Take care all,

Regards,

Stew.

 

[danread]

Not really, alot of spiders would rather eat something moving rather than something still and defrosted. It's easier for them to catch something moving, this helps it by it KNOWING THE MOUSE IS THERE. If its not moving, nor it doesn't give off thermal energy to the T its nothing more than an oddly shaped object.
It can also be more convenient to just put a mouse in the cage, rather than grabbing it with forcepts and move it around until your T finally notices it.
Sure, a T can learn to eat still food, but they aren't like cats, they haven't been trained for generations upon generations to go against their instincts and become more of a "pet," then a wild caught animal." Alot of Ts (or any other arachnid) are bought wildcaught. When you feed them still food you are going against their natural instincts.

In keeping with the trend, this is my last post on this topic too.

Woijchik89, as i explained earlier, it is not necessarily the case that tarantulas will feed preferentially on live prey. Many inverts will preferentially scavenge over tackling live prey. I can supply you with references showing this to be the case with 'predatory' carabid beetles (i know they are not tarantulas, but they are invertebrates and that is suppporting evidence for me). Tarantulas have a lot of chemoreceptors, allowing them to locate prey by a lot more than just movement. I suspect that they might well be able to locate dead food from a lot further away that any of us think.

So it is wrong to say that feeding them dead prey is going against their instincts.

I am yet to hear a good reason for feeding live adult mice to tarantulas. If there was an obvious tangable benifit, and there was no other option, i might have a different opinion. At the moment i see it mostly done for the gore factor and excitiment of seeing a large spider eat a mouse, which in my opinion is childish and just not necesary.

Cheers,

 

[FelixA9]

In keeping with the trend, this is my last post on this topic too.

Woijchik89, as i explained earlier, it is not necessarily the case that tarantulas will feed preferentially on live prey. Many inverts will preferentially scavenge over tackling live prey. I can supply you with references showing this to be the case with 'predatory' carabid beetles (i know they are not tarantulas, but they are invertebrates and that is suppporting evidence for me).

That would be like saying that humans would prefer to eat roadkill and what they find in dumpsters because dogs do. Your "scientific method" seems to need a little work. :?

 

[Scorpiove]

That would be like saying that humans would prefer to eat roadkill and what they find in dumpsters because dogs do. Your "scientific method" seems to need a little work. :?

Although they don't prefer it..... When hungry enough a human will eat from a dumpster and what not. Look at all the people without homes. They do it all the time.

 

[ShaunHolder]

While on the subject, does anyone have any good information/links on the diffrences between how Therasophids break down/absorb nutrients in invert prey as opposed to verts?

 

[woijchik89]

Although they don't prefer it..... When hungry enough a human will eat from a dumpster and what not. Look at all the people without homes. They do it all the time.

Are you saying we should starve our Ts untill they become "desperate" enough to eat dead food? LoL

Just felt like saying something.

~LaTeR~

-Ben