Arboreals and boluses (boli)

[Dandrobates]

Although technically not a bolus I would appreciate some advice on this one. I keep my P. irminia (3 inch DSL) in a large modified amac box with a cork bark flat up the side on a 45 degree angle. She has built herself a nice dirt curtain and webbed up a nice tube that I can see from the side. Usually when she’s in premolt she webs the top closed and I let her be. However, this time around she didn’t web it up so I assumed otherwise. I placed a dubia with a crushed head near the entrance and low and behold it fell down the tube and she’s apparently not interested. I don’t want to disturb her any further but my question is should I just leave it be? Also will arboreals clear their own homes out? I’ve never seen her toss out a bolus. With my terrestrials I can just pull out a feeder or bolus but I’m stumped on this one. Thanks

 

[Dman]

Yes they clean house. My P. cam was hiding forever and then one day I peeked in and found her molt thrown out of her web tube. Nothing to worry about you crushed the head so no harm. She will adjust and remove it when it dies if she does not eat it.

 

[Dandrobates]

Yes they clean house. My P. cam was hiding forever and then one day I peeked in and found her molt thrown out of her web tube. Nothing to worry about you crushed the head so no harm. She will adjust and remove it when it dies if she does not eat it.

super. Thank you.

 

[viper69]

However, this time around she didn’t web it up so I assumed otherwise

Reasonable, but inaccurate assumption, they don't always web up completely. My irminia rarely do this, and I use AMAC boxes

I don’t want to disturb her any further but my question is should I just leave it be?

Yes. I used to be like you when I first started. "oh know, an insect down there....." Then I stopped that waste of time. These are ambush predators, made to kill appropriately sized prey. If they want to take out the prey they aren't interested in, be it alive...OR remove it from their home..they will do it Let them work for a change. They aren't babied in the wild.

Also, when you put tongs or whatever down that tube your T might can use the tool as a highway up to your arm, or at least out. Not wise for an irminia..quite fast, stronger venom etc

Also will arboreals clear their own homes out?

Always--- either a molt gets tossed out at SOME point, OR they web completely over it.

 

[moricollins]

Also, when you put tongs or whatever down that tube your T might can use the tool as a highway up to your arm, or at least out. Not wise for an irminia..quite fast, stronger venom etc

Been there, done that. Didn't get bitten but had an obt run up the tweezers, up my arm and onto my back... Not the most fun I ever had

 

[Dandrobates]

Reasonable, but inaccurate assumption, they don't always web up completely. My irminia rarely do this, and I use AMAC boxes



Yes. I used to be like you when I first started. "oh know, an insect down there....." Then I stopped that waste of time. These are ambush predators, made to kill appropriately sized prey. If they want to take out the prey they aren't interested in, be it alive...OR remove it from their home..they will do it Let them work for a change. They aren't babied in the wild.

Also, when you put tongs or whatever down that tube your T might can use the tool as a highway up to your arm, or at least out. Not wise for an irminia..quite fast, stronger venom etc



Always--- either a molt gets tossed out at SOME point, OR they web completely over it.

Thanks viper.

 

[Dman]

Although technically not a bolus I would appreciate some advice on this one. I keep my P. irminia (3 inch DSL) in a large modified amac box with a cork bark flat up the side on a 45 degree angle. She has built herself a nice dirt curtain and webbed up a nice tube that I can see from the side. Usually when she’s in premolt she webs the top closed and I let her be. However, this time around she didn’t web it up so I assumed otherwise. I placed a dubia with a crushed head near the entrance and low and behold it fell down the tube and she’s apparently not interested. I don’t want to disturb her any further but my question is should I just leave it be? Also will arboreals clear their own homes out? I’ve never seen her toss out a bolus. With my terrestrials I can just pull out a feeder or bolus but I’m stumped on this one. Thanks

Here is a perfect example of an arboreal cleaning house. My P. cambridgei molted recently and this morning she threw out her molt. Her web tube is in the left corner and you can see the molt at the bottom of the enclosure.

 

[Andrea82]

My A.sp Peru Purple actually hangs the boli from threads from her webtube like little christmas decorations
My A.metallica just chucks them in the waterdish, same with uneaten food.

 

[Dandrobates]

Thank you all. I figured that leaving it be was the way to go but I wanted some input on the matter first.

 

[Venom1080]

Remove, remove, remove.

I've had spiders die from unremoved boli in the burrow. Mold builds up. The white fluffy kind.( Amazing identification, I know. ) And the spider dies maybe a couple weeks later.


Do NOT rely on tarantulas go clean their own burrows. There are millions of factors in the wild we don't have in captivity. A bioactive set up with the appropriate microorganisms being first and foremost..

@Dman molts and boli are very different. You can't compare them like that.

 

[Dman]

Remove, remove, remove.

I've had spiders die from unremoved boli in the burrow. Mold builds up. The white fluffy kind.( Amazing identification, I know. ) And the spider dies maybe a couple weeks later.


Do NOT rely on tarantulas go clean their own burrows. There are millions of factors in the wild we don't have in captivity. A bioactive set up with the appropriate microorganisms being first and foremost..

@Dman molts and boli are very different. You can't compare them like that.

I also remove bolus but that's not what he was referring to. He was referring to uneaten prey that he crushed the head on and was wondering if he should disturb the web tube to remove it. I will stand by my answer of no he does not have to remove it. The T will get rid of it and clean its home and then he can pull it out of the enclosure. However, if mold builds up anywhere in an enclosure it should be dealt with. If mold spreads beyond the decomposing item then moisture of the substrate and ventilation needs to be addressed.

 

[Dman]

My A.sp Peru Purple actually hangs the boli from threads from her webtube like little christmas decorations
My A.metallica just chucks them in the waterdish, same with uneaten food.

I'm imagining little poop Christmas decorations. So funny and thank you for making me laugh.

 

[Venom1080]

I also remove bolus but that's not what he was referring to. He was referring to uneaten prey that he crushed the head on and was wondering if he should disturb the web tube to remove it. I will stand by my answer of no he does not have to remove it. The T will get rid of it and clean its home and then he can pull it out of the enclosure. However, if mold builds up anywhere in an enclosure it should be dealt with. If mold spreads beyond the decomposing item then moisture of the substrate and ventilation needs to be addressed.

I also remove bolus but that's not what he was referring to. He was referring to uneaten prey that he crushed the head on and was wondering if he should disturb the web tube to remove it. I will stand by my answer of no he does not have to remove it. The T will get rid of it and clean its home and then he can pull it out of the enclosure. However, if mold builds up anywhere in an enclosure it should be dealt with. If mold spreads beyond the decomposing item then moisture of the substrate and ventilation needs to be addressed.

According to what experience? How often do you have spider remove unwanted food form the burrow? Because I've had spiders refuse to do it to the point that they die from mold buildup.

Your experience with molts is not relevant. I have the same. And apparently then some.

 

[Dman]

According to what experience? How often do you have spider remove unwanted food form the burrow? Because I've had spiders refuse to do it to the point that they die from mold buildup.

Your experience with molts is not relevant. I have the same. And apparently then some.

You are probably right I may be incorrect and I certainly cannot relate to your vast experience. I have never had a T let alone multiples die of mold on any occasion ever so I have nothing else to add. Perhaps I will take your advice in the future because now I think I may have just been lucky all these years.

 

[Ungoliant]

Here is a perfect example of an arboreal cleaning house. My P. cambridgei molted recently and this morning she threw out her molt. Her web tube is in the left corner and you can see the molt at the bottom of the enclosure.

My cam threw out her molt a month after molting (in her water dish, of course):

Cleaning Up (♀ Psalmopoeus cambridgei 5")

• Ungoliant
• Jun 11, 2018
• 3
• cambridgei exuviae female juvenile female molt psalmopoeus psalmopoeus cambridgei squirt trinidad chevron tarantula

Three months after molting, Squirt decided she didn't need her exuviae after all.

 

[Dandrobates]

Remove, remove, remove.

I've had spiders die from unremoved boli in the burrow. Mold builds up. The white fluffy kind.( Amazing identification, I know. ) And the spider dies maybe a couple weeks later.


Do NOT rely on tarantulas go clean their own burrows. There are millions of factors in the wild we don't have in captivity. A bioactive set up with the appropriate microorganisms being first and foremost..

@Dman molts and boli are very different. You can't compare them like that.

Perhaps I should have been more specific. My concern was regarding potential stress to a tarantula in premolt and not husbandry practices. And as far as husbandry goes it must be near impossible to successfully maintain tarantulas in captivity according to your logic. I’m curious as to how and why you had so many issues with mold and how much resulted from poor husbandry and enclosure design on your part. I’ve bred dubia roaches for years and I’ve never had mold issues resulting from them despite all the exoskeletons and frass in their container. And as far as bioactive enclosures being an absolute necessity be advised that the term “bioactive” is nothing more than a buzzword used to sell products that are by no means necessary for tarantulas. By that logic tarantulas would never thrive in simple enclosures and that is just not the case. And as far as microorganism go are you referring to microfauna? Because I began culturing native collembola and isopods as natural terrarium cleaners over 20 years ago. This was long before they became commercially available. However I do not use them in my tarantula enclosures because the species I keep do not require the extremely moist substrate that collembola would need to thrive. Why would I introduce a cleanup crew into an environment that they will not survive in? Apparently I must be clueless. And, despite my 20 plus years of employing the technique successfully I must have no understanding of when it is appropriate nor how It works. So please don’t parrot false information at me that every enclosure needs to be bioactive and that mold is immediate death when common sense and empirical evidence tell us otherwise.

 

[Venom1080]

Perhaps I should have been more specific. My concern was regarding potential stress to a tarantula in premolt and not husbandry practices. And as far as husbandry goes it must be near impossible to successfully maintain tarantulas in captivity according to your logic. I’m curious as to how and why you had so many issues with mold and how much resulted from poor husbandry and enclosure design on your part. I’ve bred dubia roaches for years and I’ve never had mold issues resulting from them despite all the exoskeletons and frass in their container. And as far as bioactive enclosures being an absolute necessity be advised that the term “bioactive” is nothing more than a buzzword used to sell products that are by no means necessary for tarantulas. By that logic tarantulas would never thrive in simple enclosures and that is just not the case. And as far as microorganism go are you referring to microfauna? Because I began culturing native collembola and isopods as natural terrarium cleaners over 20 years ago. This was long before they became commercially available. However I do not use them in my tarantula enclosures because the species I keep do not require the extremely moist substrate that collembola would need to thrive. Why would I introduce a cleanup crew into an environment that they will not survive in? Apparently I must be clueless. And, despite my 20 plus years of employing the technique successfully I must have no understanding of when it is appropriate nor how It works. So please don’t parrot false information at me that every enclosure needs to be bioactive and that mold is immediate death when common sense and empirical evidence tell us otherwise.

There it is. The stupidest, most of context thing I've seen this week.

Most "mold" is harness. The kind from decaying animals is not, however. If you put a dead feeder in a Hysteocrates burrow. You will have this kind of mold quite quickly. And in my experience, if you do not remove the dead feeder from the burrow yourself, the spider will not do it for you. Why they don't do this is unknown. But is probably due to the microorganisms they have in the wild breaking down the matter before it becomes a problem. They don't know they're in captivity. So their behaviour doesn't change.

 

[Vanisher]

Remove, remove, remove.

I've had spiders die from unremoved boli in the burrow. Mold builds up. The white fluffy kind.( Amazing identification, I know. ) And the spider dies maybe a couple weeks later.


Do NOT rely on tarantulas go clean their own burrows. There are millions of factors in the wild we don't have in captivity. A bioactive set up with the appropriate microorganisms being first and foremost..

@Dman molts and boli are very different. You can't compare them like that.

I remove boli if i see them, but i dont think this is crucial. I dont eben know if this is necessary. Thin this way, when spider eats its pray it will always drop small piecies of prey, a cricket leg, a piece of the bolus and other smaller stuff. Pieces that yiu will bever see. Those will attract mold, and bacteria also. Sure, you should akways pick bolus out, especially in moist enclosures, but i wouldnt tear up the spiders burrow just to search for bolus you may not find anyway!

 

[Venom1080]

I remove boli if i see them, but i dont think this is crucial. I dont eben know if this is necessary. Thin this way, when spider eats its pray it will always drop small piecies of prey, a cricket leg, a piece of the bolus and other smaller stuff. Pieces that yiu will bever see. Those will attract mold, and bacteria also. Sure, you should akways pick bolus out, especially in moist enclosures, but i wouldnt tear up the spiders burrow just to search for bolus you may not find anyway!

Yes.. agreed.. I actually made a mistake with my first comment. I have never had a spider die from unremoved boli. In fact, I have spiders I never remove boli from. I never see it and I've never issues. Hysteocrates is a good example. What I have had issues with is dead, unremoved, whole feeder insects that ended up in a burrow, and were not removed.

 

[sourpatchkid]

The commonly understood definition of a "bolus" used by T keepers is a dead prey that's been masticated and partially eaten by a T. The bolus contains digestive enzymes meant to break down food with webbing mixed in. Webbing has antibacterial and antifungal properties, which will help the bolus last a bit longer. In your case, it's simply a dead insect that's your enclosure, that will induce mold growth. Out of an abundance of caution, I would remove it before mold begins to break out.