Appeal of Fossorial Ts & Trapdoor Spiders?

[FlamingSwampert]

I’ve added substrate level air holes to all the T cribs I’ve had. Not a fan of their hole size on larger enclosures nor lack of lower level vents.

How do you do it? Can you melt the plastic with a hot knife / sodering iron or does it warp due to the acrylic construction?

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

How do you do it? Can you melt the plastic with a hot knife / sodering iron or does it warp due to the acrylic construction?

I use my drill with acrylic bits.

 

[FlamingSwampert]

I use my drill with acrylic bits.

Nice, I've never seen acrylic bits, either I wasn't looking hard enough or just all my local hardware stores don't carry them. But hey, there's always amazon!

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

In fact even some obligate fossorials can show this tendency in captivity: I got a sexed female subadult C. lividus a couple months ago (as if I didn’t already have slings of the same species), and she still hasn’t burrowed. She stays on webbed substrate, drinks, and eats feeders I throw her way.

Update to this spider (now officially named Ampha), as she has finally decided to go fossorial and dug all the way to the bottom. She does still pop back up to the surface with some regularity, especially if crickets are involved.

 

[FlamingSwampert]

Which ones would y'all recommend? All this talk has piqued my interest...
I saw a nice c. darlingi available for a low price... this wouldn't be my first t, any thoughts?

Update: I had no luck...

You could also check out the Chilobrachys species (C. natanicharum for example), and many other Asian genus are fossorial (Haplopelma, Cyriopagopus, Haploclastus, Citharognathus, etc.). Lots of the African genus tend to be fossorial, as well, like Pelinobius muticus, Augacephalus, Harpactira, Pterinochilus, and Hysterocrates. From the new world, there are things like Ephebopus, Cyriocosmus, Euthycaelus, and Megaphobema that all have fossorial tendencies. So, lots to choose from, it really just depends on what you like.

I know this is a well-contested subject because everyone likes different things, but which are the best/better species (that won't cost an arm and a leg, I've checked the prices of a few rarer species and... yikes!)?

 

[SpookySpooder]

If your arm or leg costs less than $1000 I'm very saddened and shocked by this information

If you stay away from full sized adult females, the slings and juvies of these species don't cost much at all.

 

[NMTs]

Update: I had no luck...


I know this is a well-contested subject because everyone likes different things, but which are the best/better species (that won't cost an arm and a leg, I've checked the prices of a few rarer species and... yikes!)?

My favorite ones that shouldn't be too expensive would be Pelinobius muticus (these grow VERY slowly, so paying a little more for a well stated sling or juvenile is totally justifiable), Cyriopagopus lividus (the blue on their legs sticking out of a burrow is awesome), Chilobrachys fimbriatus (gorgeous T's), Ceratogyrus darlingi or marshalli (I mean, they have horns), Ephebopus murinus (or cyanognathus - both will be mostly arboreal as slings but become fossorial as they get bigger), and Cyriocosmus elegans (dwarf species, but absolutely beautiful). I think you'd be able to find the majority of these for $100 or less as slings/juveniles (most for less than $50).

 

[FlamingSwampert]

If your arm or leg costs less than $1000 I'm very saddened and shocked by this information

If you stay away from full sized adult females, the slings and juvies of these species don't cost much at all.

I guess I'm not that good of a salesman lol

My favorite ones that shouldn't be too expensive would be Pelinobius muticus (these grow VERY slowly, so paying a little more for a well stated sling or juvenile is totally justifiable), Cyriopagopus lividus (the blue on their legs sticking out of a burrow is awesome), Chilobrachys fimbriatus (gorgeous T's), Ceratogyrus darlingi or marshalli (I mean, they have horns), Ephebopus murinus (or cyanognathus - both will be mostly arboreal as slings but become fossorial as they get bigger), and Cyriocosmus elegans (dwarf species, but absolutely beautiful). I think you'd be able to find the majority of these for $100 or less as slings/juveniles (most for less than $50).

Wow, stunning ts! I was also thinking of aphonopelma burica, anyone have any experience with them?

 

[FlamingSwampert]

It seems that the buzz-word for fossorials is "pet hole" which I now understand isn't really true, but are there any that aren't really worth keeping (like ones that you see maybe once or twice a year at most) / kinda worth avoiding? I'm planning on getting some next time I go to an expo and I want to make sure I get ones that come out every so often in the night or whatever instead of once a year.

 

[8 legged]

It would be bad if suddenly everyone understood everything
One of my favorite species is Haplocosmia himalayana. It feels like I see it twice a quarter and I'm still happy with it!
For the last few years I have kept a Sahydroaraneus raja. During this time she was out once - during a rehouse of course... The crickets I put in always disappeared. Yesterday she came out to die - as if that had to happen outside now!?
Crazy - and don't panic, she was a grandma and very old!
Try one of these species and then judge!
Most people don´t understand why humans keep spiders at all...

 

[FlamingSwampert]

It would be bad if suddenly everyone understood everything
One of my favorite species is Haplocosmia himalayana. It feels like I see it twice a quarter and I'm still happy with it!
For the last few years I have kept a Sahydroaraneus raja. During this time she was out once - during a rehouse of course... The crickets I put in always disappeared. Yesterday she came out to die - as if that had to happen outside now!?
Crazy - and don't panic, she was a grandma and very old!
View attachment 464193

Sorry for your loss. I get that everyone has different tastes, but personally, I don't intend to accumulate a crazy amount of ts so I want to make sure each one is "worth it" or that I get to enjoy it through some sort of interaction or at least by just seeing it.

 

[8 legged]

No need for sorry, life always ends this way!
Feel sorry for the people in Isreal or Ukraine - but not for my spider ;-)
I understand your point! I write articles and do some work with my animals, that is another point of view!

 

[zsiciarz]

Idiothele mira

• zsiciarz
• Jan 3, 2024
• 1
• baboon fossorial idiothele idiothele mira mira old world trapdoor

Recently molted and in hunting mood.

These feet stick out more often than not, sometimes there's even a spider attached to them. Even now as I'm writing this, she's entirely out of her burrow and on the side of the enclosure.

 

[8 legged]

Idiothele mira

• zsiciarz
• Jan 3, 2024
• 1
• baboon fossorial idiothele idiothele mira mira old world trapdoor

Recently molted and in hunting mood.

These feet stick out more often than not, sometimes there's even a spider attached to them. Even now as I'm writing this, she's entirely out of her burrow and on the side of the enclosure.

IMG_5111.JPG

• 8 legged
• May 10, 2021
• 8

I. mira

I know exactly what you mean

 

[8 legged]

...and on the subject of trapdoor spiders: you have the following with almost every feeding:

It's definitely worth it!

 

[FlamingSwampert]

Idiothele mira

• zsiciarz
• Jan 3, 2024
• 1
• baboon fossorial idiothele idiothele mira mira old world trapdoor

Recently molted and in hunting mood.

These feet stick out more often than not, sometimes there's even a spider attached to them. Even now as I'm writing this, she's entirely out of her burrow and on the side of the enclosure.

Neat, I'll remember this sp.

 

[NMTs]

It seems that the buzz-word for fossorials is "pet hole" which I now understand isn't really true, but are there any that aren't really worth keeping (like ones that you see maybe once or twice a year at most) / kinda worth avoiding? I'm planning on getting some next time I go to an expo and I want to make sure I get ones that come out every so often in the night or whatever instead of once a year.

One that you'll likely never see above ground is the one mentioned by @8 legged above - Sahydroaraneus raja. They're gorgeous T's, dark iridescent blue when viewed in the correct light, but in my experience they won't ever come to the surface. I always had a window into the burrow mine made, so I could make sure they were alive and healthy, but even at feeding time he would wait for the prey to wander down into the burrow rather than coming to the surface to grab it.

I thought it was a female when I took this pic during a rehousing:

0.1 Sahydroaraneus raja - 2.5" DLS

• NMTs
• Nov 12, 2023
• 2
• indian blue dwarf tarantula raja sahydroaraneus sahydroaraneus raja

Little pink-footed, blue and purple mud spider. Pretty chill, too.

Then a little over a month later it molted into a mature male, so I got him out to take more pics:

1.0 Sahydroaraneus raja MM - 2.75" DLS

• NMTs
• Dec 25, 2023
• 3
• indian blue dwarf tarantula mature male raja sahydroaraneus sahydroaraneus raja

This one had me completely fooled into thinking it was female - until it matured on 12/18/23...

I've had similar experience with Psednocnemis brachyramosa. Rarely comes to the surface, even for feeding, and rehousing is about the only time you'll get a good look at them above ground - beautiful, though:

0.1 Psednocnemis brachyramosa - 2.25" DLS

• NMTs
• Dec 2, 2023
• 2
• brachyramosa coremiocnemis brachyramosa malaysian blue femur psednocnemis psednocnemis brachyramosa

The epitome of a pet hole, I only see this little one out when I have to get her out for some...

There are certainly others that you'll never see above ground, but I think if you stick to some of the suggestions that I and others have given you in the past week or 2, you'll be happy with what you get.

My favorite ones that shouldn't be too expensive would be Pelinobius muticus (these grow VERY slowly, so paying a little more for a well stated sling or juvenile is totally justifiable), Cyriopagopus lividus (the blue on their legs sticking out of a burrow is awesome), Chilobrachys fimbriatus (gorgeous T's), Ceratogyrus darlingi or marshalli (I mean, they have horns), Ephebopus murinus (or cyanognathus - both will be mostly arboreal as slings but become fossorial as they get bigger), and Cyriocosmus elegans (dwarf species, but absolutely beautiful). I think you'd be able to find the majority of these for $100 or less as slings/juveniles (most for less than $50).

 

[HappyLittleDaydream]

I don't really get the point of fossorial ts and trapdoor spiders. To me it seems like you keep a box of dirt and once a week you get to see something get dragged under said dirt and eaten. Are the takedowns impressive enough to make up for the lack of activity and visibility? I doubt there are many fossorial t enthusiasts out there but I just want to know what makes them worth buying. I guess I've heard some will come to the surface for a short period of time, but idk which species or how many exhibit this behavior.

I LOVE my fossorials!! A lot of mine have made just incredible houses that I can see under the ground. And I absolutely adore the fact that I have happy little spider guys in their holes living in my house. Plus it makes it that much cooler when you see them out. And my goodness when one molts and grows a bunch, it is wicked cool. (Example my M. robustum).

I also really like making fossorial enclosures. It feels very back to the earth to get that bottom layer moist, and do a little starter burrow that they may or may not use, etc.

It depends on what you're keeping. For my fossorials that don't require much moisture in the substrate, then I don't worry too much about vents down low, but as @SpookySpooder mentioned, the more moisture, the more important ventilation becomes. It serves 2 purposes for me - the air is allowed to flow through the moist substrate and therefore increases relative humidity (think of an evaporative humidifier), while also preventing the substrate from becoming stagnant and dank. The holes also allow me to inject water directly into the lower levels of the substrate without having to flood the top, which is also great for providing drinking water for a T that's down deep in a burrow.

A little substrate falls out, but it's not too bad. Honestly, my bulldozing terrestrial species spill more sub out of their enclosures than the fossorials.

Oh wow this is brilliant. This is great advice.

 

[HappyLittleDaydream]

It depends on what you're keeping. For my fossorials that don't require much moisture in the substrate, then I don't worry too much about vents down low, but as @SpookySpooder mentioned, the more moisture, the more important ventilation becomes. It serves 2 purposes for me - the air is allowed to flow through the moist substrate and therefore increases relative humidity (think of an evaporative humidifier), while also preventing the substrate from becoming stagnant and dank. The holes also allow me to inject water directly into the lower levels of the substrate without having to flood the top, which is also great for providing drinking water for a T that's down deep in a burrow.

A little substrate falls out, but it's not too bad. Honestly, my bulldozing terrestrial species spill more sub out of their enclosures than the fossorials.

Oh wow this is brilliant. This is great advice.

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

Do also check out the “Haplotank” setups. As someone who has a fair collection of Cyriopagopus I really wish those were commercially available instead of having to be custom-made.