A geniculata IMMATURE Male making sperm webs?

[cold blood]

Yes, I thought that was the one you own now. It wasn't hard to find at all.



Jose

OMG! I see it right there! The pale one with the round abdomen! Woo-Hoo, a baby picture!

I just don't see it, can you be more specific as to which EWL is yours exactly? :laugh:

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Oh, come on! Go back a page and look at it in it's new home and tell me you can't see the resemblance to the EWL I just described. It is so obvious! Geeze!

 

[cold blood]

Oh, come on! Go back a page and look at it in it's new home and tell me you can't see the resemblance to the EWL I just described. It is so obvious! Geeze!

I did all that. I even blew it up and printed both pics out and hung them on the wall side by side, the pics are 12'x12' so I can get a good look at the differentiating markings on the slings to match up to your totally unique one....every time I think I find it I see another that looks closer.:/

 

[Ellenantula]

I did all that. I even blew it up and printed both pics out and hung them on the wall side by side, the pics are 12'x12' so I can get a good look at the differentiating markings on the slings to match up to your totally unique one....every time I think I find it I see another that looks closer.:/

Whatta ya need? 27 8×10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was?

 

[Blueandbluer]

Whatta ya need? 27 8×10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was?

Oh, man, if this weren't the "serious" forum I would have 'shopped up a picture of Jose's ewl with a possum face in the middle, and told you all to look for the family resemblance... But I wouldn't want to get in trouble.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Oh, man, if this weren't the "serious" forum I would have 'shopped up a picture of Jose's ewl with a possum face in the middle, and told you all to look for the family resemblance... But I wouldn't want to get in trouble.

Its fine by me, is the moderators you have to worry about. I think it would be funny if you did.


Jose

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Well, I certainly would like to see it.

And it isn't just the markings, etc but the demeanour and posture you need to be looking at too, you know, cold blood.

 

[ManlyMan7]

Back to topic....

Sorry this has taken me 9 days to post, but here is the video.

I see I have very little vid of him trying to charge his palps, but trust me, he was going through the motions.

Also notice that he did not produce a dot on the web, which leads me to conclude he is not mature yet (with palps stuck in old exo).


[video=youtube;pjOT_1-Wtgg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOT_1-Wtgg[/video]

Jose, thanks for the links. I will research this. When the seller sent me a pic of this boy, I was assuming mature, so I didn't look carefully at his palps. And when I saw the pic, still thinking mature male, I saw the bright knee stripes and didn't think anything of him being a brock (which was the reason I requested a pic in the first place).

As I am sick in bed today, perhaps I will have a chance to study this out more carefully.

Thanks again.

 

[Blueandbluer]

That is really fascinating behavior. There's no way to mistake that for anything else! He definitely THINKS he's loading up a sperm web.

This is a rank guess, but I wonder if it's possible he could be intersex? We do know that intersexuality can happen on either a species or individual level elsewhere in the animal kingdom, not just in humans.

PS. I hope you feel better soon.

 

[ManlyMan7]

Not sure what you mean by intersex, unless you mean gynandromorph.

If you are referring to that, I believe what we would expect is a half male/ half female, usually split down the middle.

One example of that is Martin and Amanda's Pokie from a few years ago. Wild how distinct the line is between male and female (with any animal exhibiting). I don't see an appropriate source from which to link this shot, so I will leave it to you to look for. Just do a search for gynandromorph Poecilotheria subfusca and the first images that come up are theirs.

 

[Blueandbluer]

Not sure what you mean by intersex, unless you mean gynandromorph.

If you are referring to that, I believe what we would expect is a half male/ half female, usually split down the middle.

One example of that is Martin and Amanda's Pokie from a few years ago. Wild how distinct the line is between male and female (with any animal exhibiting). I don't see an appropriate source from which to link this shot, so I will leave it to you to look for. Just do a search for gynandromorph Poecilotheria subfusca and the first images that come up are theirs.

Related to gynandromorph, but no, not the same thing. Those photos are wild though!

I'm more familiar with intersex people than animals, though I do know it can happen in several branches of the animal kingdom. "Intersex, in humans and other animals, is a variation in sex characteristics including chromosomes, gonads, or genitals that do not allow an individual to be distinctly identified as male or female. Such variation may involve genital ambiguity, and combinations of chromosomal genotype and sexual phenotype other than XY-male and XX-female." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex I know Wikipedia is a lousy resource but am at work so don't have much time to dig for sources.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Back to topic....

Sorry this has taken me 9 days to post, but here is the video.

I see I have very little vid of him trying to charge his palps, but trust me, he was going through the motions.

Also notice that he did not produce a dot on the web, which leads me to conclude he is not mature yet (with palps stuck in old exo).


[video=youtube;pjOT_1-Wtgg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOT_1-Wtgg[/video]

Jose, thanks for the links. I will research this. When the seller sent me a pic of this boy, I was assuming mature, so I didn't look carefully at his palps. And when I saw the pic, still thinking mature male, I saw the bright knee stripes and didn't think anything of him being a brock (which was the reason I requested a pic in the first place).

As I am sick in bed today, perhaps I will have a chance to study this out more carefully.

Thanks again.

No problem, glad to help you out. And thank you for posting your video that's definitely in the history books. Never seen or heard of an immature male making sperm webs.


Jose

 

[ManlyMan7]

Yeah, I have only one other telling me they experienced this, with P met. And that AFTER I reported mine.

With the pics and videos, at least people won't think I am April Fooling them, mistaken or too inexperienced to know what I am looking at.

I will keep feeding him and in some 6-8 months or so, I will shark - tank him in her cage (a deli with a screen lid) to see if I can't encourage both of the to molt (if she hasn't already ).

Then see what happens from there.

---------- Post added 04-16-2015 at 10:22 PM ----------

And don't worry, I won't pair them if I am not convinced they are both genic's.

 

[Yentlequible]

Very interesting. I'll tell you my theory. I think the spider has matured. To me, it looks like his ultimate molt. Watching your video, he has that look of a mature male, just going by those long spindly legs, and body shape. But then again, his legs aren't a perfect match for other males I've seen. Obviously something is wrong with him. From what I see, I would say it's his ultimate molt and he just wasn't able to produce his palps and hooks like a normal male. Perhaps something in his DNA is tweaked just a little bit?

The other theory I was going to mention was that gynandromorph subfusca, as I remember seeing that post before. You guys already brought that up though. It could definitely be a possibility though, especially with how the male and females of this species don't have such a different look like the subfusca. Female legs and palps, male reproductive organs?

I would say to not pair him up. See if he molts again. If this is actually his ultimate molt, then it would be very interesting to see what the next one brings. Would he still have no palps and hooks on the next molt, or is he showing mature male behavior one molt early?

 

[Formerphobe]

A couple of weeks ago I walked in on my juvenile P metallica going thru what appeared to be the motions of loading his nonexistent emboli from an empty sperm web. I double, triple, and quadruple checked for any signs of maturity. None. His pedipalps still look like normal spider feet, no emboli, deformities, or missing parts. He's since taken down his not-a-sperm web.
He last molted on February 28 and the exuvium measured 4.0 inches. So, he is the right size, but no mature boy parts present. He also still looks like a juvenile. No MM attributes whatsoever. I thought perhaps I was imagining things until I saw Scott's post.

 

[ManlyMan7]

Very interesting. I'll tell you my theory. I think the spider has matured. To me, it looks like his ultimate molt. Watching your video, he has that look of a mature male, just going by those long spindly legs, and body shape. But then again, his legs aren't a perfect match for other males I've seen. Obviously something is wrong with him. From what I see, I would say it's his ultimate molt and he just wasn't able to produce his palps and hooks like a normal male. Perhaps something in his DNA is tweaked just a little bit?

The other theory I was going to mention was that gynandromorph subfusca, as I remember seeing that post before. You guys already brought that up though. It could definitely be a possibility though, especially with how the male and females of this species don't have such a different look like the subfusca. Female legs and palps, male reproductive organs?

I would say to not pair him up. See if he molts again. If this is actually his ultimate molt, then it would be very interesting to see what the next one brings. Would he still have no palps and hooks on the next molt, or is he showing mature male behavior one molt early?

I tend to disagree. I see one indicator (apart from palps and hooks), that he is not mature, that being that he did not produce a dot. His Pedipalps do bulge like one who is pen-ultimate, so I am hopeful he will fully mature. It appears that his hormones have not lined up in order the way they normally do. Could this be an effect of exposure to juvenile growth hormones (such as in giant mealworms which are nothing but mealies fed JGH?)

As for gynandromorph, no. The cases I have seen of tarantulas, as well as many other animals show a very clear demarkation down the center of the body between male and female. This boy has none of that. I recognize they are not sexually dimorphic, but I would expect to see a hook on one side as well as palpal bulb, while no male parts on the female side.

Rest assured all that I will not pair him with this (or any) female until at least two things happen. 1. He fully matures, and 2. He is the same species as his mate.

My intent on shark-tanking is not to pair, but as Amanda at Tarantula Canada once recommended, a mature male introduced to a female for a short time can prompt her to molt. I have both of my B. albopilosums do that a couple summers back (unfortunately, though he was only a couple month mature, he tried to molt to and did not survive the molt). This Acantho boy may just have enough adult hormones in him to prompt him to molt too.

And by shark-tanking, I hope I am clear. They will be separated by an aluminum screen lid, so he will be safe.

 

[Blueandbluer]

My intent on shark-tanking is not to pair, but as Amanda at Tarantula Canada once recommended, a mature male introduced to a female for a short time can prompt her to molt.

Now, that's interesting. I hadn't heard that before. Anyone have a theory on why that could be?

 

[ManlyMan7]

Just an update, my boy passed away earlier this year, maybe in the Spring? He seemed to slow down and die much like other mature males I have had.

 

[ManlyMan7]

He never did molt again.

 

[Red Eunice]

Just an update, my boy passed away earlier this year, maybe in the Spring? He seemed to slow down and die much like other mature males I have had.

Oh, what a bummer!
Hopefully you'll be able to acquire another male to pair her with.
Great species to have in one's collection.