German Tarantula Breeder, Sven Koppler, sentenced for smuggling tarantulas today

German Tarantula Breeder, Sven Koppler, sentenced for smuggling tarantulas today.

See new stories about this below:

http://www.sanmarinotribune.com/art..._Smuggler_May_Get_10_Months_Behind_Bars/23401

http://www.bhcourier.com/article/Local/Local/Man_To_Be_Sentenced_In_TarantulaSmuggling_Case/76037

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_18072415

Some questions to ponder and debate:

1) Rick West states in testimony "Tarantulas also carry bacteria that causes flesh-eating disease in humans." I have not heard of this. Anybody got a link to a study that was concluded about this?

2) West states that all 933 known species of the animal produce venom that can be dangerous to people. We have been told for over 10 years that tarantulas are considered medically insignificant without one single report of a death directly attributed to a tarantula bite. If this has changed, can somebody show me the studies on this?

3) Koppler "met with an associate in Torrance who also deals in the eight-legged arachnids". Who was this U.S. citizen? Torrance, California...hmmm. What major tarantula seller lives in or near Torrance, CA?

4) The 2nd package that was intercepted by USFWS in California had 22 CITES II-listed Brachypelma smithi sold by Koppler to a U.S. buyer in California. That is a CITES violation. Why wasn't/hasn't the U.S. buyer been busted?
Is he still selling stock to U.S. buyers? How much of his price list is now "compromised" with "suspect" stock? Is he still brown boxing on the side since he got immunity?

5) In the court case, it said Kopper sold tarantulas to nine people in the United States. These shipments went undeclared and were smuggled by nine U.S. citizens. Why haven't they been busted?

Koppler obviously violated U.S. law, but the interesting thing about this case is that he is a German citizen. Why were the nine U.S. citizens that did business with him illegally given a "pass"? The concluding message was sent internationally that foreigners should not break U.S. law, but what message was sent to the now numerous U.S. citizens smuggling from other countries?

Why didn't the nine U.S. citizens get busted? That would have sent the strongest message throughout the U.S. hobby/trade to seriously discourage the out of control "brown-boxing" many have done the last few years.

More discussion about this at:
http://invertaforum.tarantulaspiders.com/user/Discussion.aspx?id=290846

I just do not understand the fear-mongering quotes from Rick West. Were his words twisted by the media? If not he's harming the hobby (which I have no clue if he supports or not).

For sure it doesn't make any sense that the 9 Americans are not in trouble and Sven is taking all the heat.:?

In all 3 articles Rick West's comments were in quotes besides this line....

However, West states that all 933 known species of the animal produce venom that can be dangerous to people. Tarantulas also carry bacteria that causes flesh-eating disease in humans

interesting....

Later, Tom

Philth said:

For sure it doesn't make any sense that the 9 Americans are not in trouble and Sven is taking all the heat.:?

In all 3 articles Rick West's comments were in quotes besides this line....

However, West states that all 933 known species of the animal produce venom that can be dangerous to people. Tarantulas also carry bacteria that causes flesh-eating disease in humans

interesting....

Later, Tom

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It is very interesting, I never knew there is a such danger involved, I'd like to know all about it.
And about 9 Americans any names?

Really interesting. The skin eating bacteria is a new one.......Rick West quotes? Really? It is probably a media over kill. If I know anything from my work its that the media can completely change a story from the truth. ANyways, im subscribed now.....:?

---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

While I do not condone the illegal shipment of tarantulas, I hate the negative press for our hobby! I hope that the circumstances behind this were harmless and simply bad judgement. We have got to be responsible in EVERYTHING we do. This is such a great hobby with positive effects, sometimes even being the only means to save a species. We should all work with the geatest of respect for what we do and treat every shipment as such. Just my 2 cents...:?

Does it matter who the people were that bought from him and met up? Point is. HE SMUGGLED them in. HE took the risks and HE KNEW the consequences. Granted, yeah it sucks and it puts a damper on his life and may spark qualms between people but they wont stop importing, smuggling and buying. CA is a hot spot for T dealers sooooo yeah. irrelevent

And as for Rick West quotes.. He was probably asked a series of questions and the answers given, the reporters jumbled them all together to get these answers.

Tarantulas arent that bad.. I can garantee they have more dog bites which basically every other houshold has one, than t bites and injuries.. Some more sigificant than others but still... it's Ridiculous..

Kris,
Funny that you mention, its not like a pawn shop, personally I won't buy stollen ring,
Don't you want to know where your animals come from, no?
Just seems a bit shady, it takes two to tango, did Sven danced by himself in to US prison
Did folks who got the shipment had all paperwork in order or how did that go?

Kris-wIth-a-K said:

Does it matter who the people were that bought from him and met up? Point is. HE SMUGGLED them in. HE took the risks and HE KNEW the consequences.

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Since its illegal in the U.S. to receive boxes with live animals from other country's, with out proper permits , and going through fish and Wild life ports, I'd say it does matter.

later, Tom

You do have a point there BUT people new to the hobby don't know any better so they will buy imported (or smuggled) things rather it's wild caught or whatever. Nowadays I have seen A LOT of new people here. NO ONE will tell you if a T is smuggled over or not all for a quick and easy sale and can tell you the majority of the new buyers will not ask.

On a further note. Im NOT, by any means, sticking up for anyone here. Just saying, basically, its a shame things came to this.

I'm getting a feeling that I should be reading between the lines on some of these posts.

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Aside from that, I'd like to get some more info on the flesh eating bacteria. If I had to make an uneducated guess, the risk is from wc species.

The bacteia responsible for necrotizing fasciitis are everywhere, not limited to a few places like tarantula fangs. This bacteria can be found on barbed wire, thorn bushes, cacti, behind your toilet and maybe even on the curtains of the Oval Office. Though the bacteria can be found in many places, the chances of coming in contact with it are rare. So, saying that tarantulas are vectors for these bacteria is like saying that dogs are vectors for rabies. Both statements are true, but so unlikely as to cause any concern.

Hyperbole, such as has been stated, usually only serves the media.

Really interesting. The skin eating bacteria is a new one.......Rick West quotes? Really? It is probably a media over kill. If I know anything from my work its that the media can completely change a story from the truth.

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Rick West has made some pretty strange statements here - and I don't think you can blame the media. They are direct quotes and stand on their own, so you can't blame the context they were taken out of. I'm really disappointed in him.

As for the "Associate in Torrance, California" - it should be noted that it only states that he was visiting an associate, not doing business with a customer. It doesn't indicate whether the person he visited was in any way connected to the case, so be careful about which dealers you condemn here.

Kris-wIth-a-K said:

NO ONE will tell you if a T is smuggled over or not all for a quick and easy sale and can tell you the majority of the new buyers will not ask.

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I always ask when I have a concern about a specimen being WC. I don't have to worry when buying a juvie from a breeder like Anastasia.

Other times there are indications that I am purchasing a specimen that is being resold (for example, it is still in the last owner's enclosure).

Nevertheless, I can never get an answer when I ask if a specimen is WC. Mostly it is because the spider has changed hands so many times as to make finding-out this information near impossible for the final seller. I can't blame them if they don't know. I trust that the people I deal with want what is best for the spiders.

Unfortunately, there are those that are out for the quick and easy sell to us hobbiest that demand the rarest of species.

red flags

Brown-boxing "red flags"

•*A seller posts an ad on for a rare species that has sold for a high price by a majority of other sellers a price with a price 50% less or more than their competitors. A "too good to be true" price.
• Seller does not have an import permit (or technically did not have a permit until recently
• Seller does not buy from other known suppliers with import permits
•*Seller's price list consistently undercuts their competition and sells stock so low, you have to question how did they get the stock and put up such a low price.
•*Seller's customers tend to be "newbies", very young, who go for price first purchases and never think about these red flags.

Now, anybody in the know, do some research and triangulate and figure in a process of elimination and you know who these brown-boxing sellers are, don't you? Brown-boxing hurts the hobby - period. Don't buy from sellers engaged in this practice. It hurts breeders, investors, legal importers and brings gov. attention to our hobby. Regulate ourselves. Don't buy from brown-boxing sellers.

Bill S said:

Rick West has made some pretty strange statements here - and I don't think you can blame the media. They are direct quotes and stand on their own, so you can't blame the context they were taken out of. I'm really disappointed in him.

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This may be splitting hairs but the statement in the news about flesh eating bacteria was not a direct quote, just a statement by the writer that has been bookended by quotes from Rick West. I'm not saying that he did or didn't say it, just that we can't tell from this if he really said they are vectors for flesh eating bacteria.

malhomme said:

This may be splitting hairs but the statement in the news about flesh eating bacteria was not a direct quote, just a statement by the writer that has been bookended by quotes from Rick West. I'm not saying that he did or didn't say it, just that we can't tell from this if he really said they are vectors for flesh eating bacteria.

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I agree, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I'll never trust the media, as they have a funny way of manipulating things.

Later, Tom

Admin Note:

Ok, I suppose this needs to be said. Making accusations and assumptions WITHOUT HARD CORE EVIDENCE or PROOF, is nothing more than speculation at this point. So, unless anyone here has any physical REAL proof that can be linked to or provided as fact, then NO ONE is to name any names, period!

PLEASE stay on topic.

Debby

Philth said:

I agree, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I'll never trust the media, as they have a funny way of manipulating things.

Later, Tom

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This.

I'm in the process of moving out of the country (not quite yet) but have been looking into the export/import requirements and with all the other red tape and preparations I have to go through, I think I'm just going to sell my spiders. That is, sell them to someone within the borders here. ;P

Do I think the customers should've received some of the repercussions of doing illegal trade? Sure. Whether they know it or not, that doesn't matter. If I go into a country and do some drug, I expect to be dealt with like anyone else whether I know that particular countries laws regarding that drug or not.

Ignorance is not bliss in the eyes of the law.

6 month sentence and a $4000 fine, bit harsh IMO.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110516/ap_on_re_us/us_spider_smuggling_3

mcluskyisms said:

6 month sentence and a $4000 fine, bit harsh IMO.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110516/ap_on_re_us/us_spider_smuggling_3

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Possibly, but anything lighter might not actually be a deterrent.

A few years back we had a student who would park illegally, 3 times a week.
to her, the $5 fine then $10 and $15(max) per day was akin to a parking fee rather than a fine. She was happy to pay the $15 to have a better spot.
It wasn't until we finally got permission to tow repeat offenders that she stopped.