Ybyrapora diversipes vs Caribena versicolor

[Jellyfish Jenni]

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with info on these two Ts.
Firstly why is Diversipes much more expensive than Versicolor?
secondly is there any care differences between them?
thirdly any other info you would like to add.

 

[cold blood]

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with info on these two Ts.
Firstly why is Diversipes much more expensive than Versicolor?
secondly is there any care differences between them?
thirdly any other info you would like to add.

Versicolor are one of the most popular species in the hobby...they're always being bred...so the fact that there is a lot more available, makes them generally cheaper...although its really not by much at all.

Care is exactly the same...but do not get your care from care sheets, or your t may die.

Versi are excellent eaters...diversipes looks spectacular as a sling and juvie...just good as an adult...versi slings look good, but not spectacular...adults look spectacular.

Resized952017010795161601

• cold blood
• Jan 13, 2017
• 1

versi

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• cold blood
• Nov 23, 2016
• 3

even MM versicolor look great.

versicolor

• cold blood
• Jun 28, 2017
• 2

not all MMs look drab.

Both can be more defensive...diversipes more so. Both are very much worth owning...versi may be the easiest avic relative to raise in terms of husbandry tolerance combined with faster growth.

 

[Jellyfish Jenni]

Wow thanks for the great answer!
Actually I ordered a versicolour and I'm just waiting on its arrival, I really love avic Ts I think all of them are beautiful. I might get a diversipes in the next order.

 

[viper69]

Wow thanks for the great answer!
Actually I ordered a versicolour and I'm just waiting on its arrival, I really love avic Ts I think all of them are beautiful. I might get a diversipes in the next order.

Couldn't see what you currently own because your profile prevents people from viewing...

I strongly suggest you see if you can raise a versi (assuming it's a sling) or a Pink-Toe in general before you order a diversipes, rather than collecting them like Skittles. They have a narrow range of husbandry forgiveness due to errors.

Versi tend to be less nervous than diversipes.

 

[campj]

I don't have much avic experience, but have raised a couple to adulthood in the past, A. avic and C. versicolor. My wife recently wanted diversipes slings, so we bought some a few months ago. Two croaked, one seemingly out of nowhere. I reached out to someone with lots of avic experience (ie breeds and raises them), and he gave me some unconventional advice that has allowed the remaining two slings to thrive. Revealing the advice would probably start a riot, especially considering the present company in this thread (no offense intended towards anyone, I just know that it can be hard to teach old dogs new tricks). Should I reveal the techniques, or no? Trust me, they are VERY unconventional, and I was skeptical until I tried it; I'm now certain that I can buy avics and their kin without feeling like I'll be throwing 50% of my spending down the toilet (which is where dead spiders go in my house heh).

 

[viper69]

I don't have much avic experience, but have raised a couple to adulthood in the past, A. avic and C. versicolor. My wife recently wanted diversipes slings, so we bought some a few months ago. Two croaked, one seemingly out of nowhere. I reached out to someone with lots of avic experience (ie breeds and raises them), and he gave me some unconventional advice that has allowed the remaining two slings to thrive. Revealing the advice would probably start a riot, especially considering the present company in this thread (no offense intended towards anyone, I just know that it can be hard to teach old dogs new tricks). Should I reveal the techniques, or no? Trust me, they are VERY unconventional, and I was skeptical until I tried it; I'm now certain that I can buy avics and their kin without feeling like I'll be throwing 50% of my spending down the toilet (which is where dead spiders go in my house heh).

Let's read it!

 

[campj]

OK, it's a bit late right now and I'd like to add some pictures, so I'll try to reply tomorrow after work. Keep an open mind though.

 

[Jellyfish Jenni]

I'd like to read any and all information available, even thou I've decided now against adding anymore to my collection at this time. I have a few slow growing slings and I am happy to be their mom and watch them grow up. I can properly take care of what I have now and if I had more, then I couldn't spend as much time just sitting and watching them (which is what I like to do).

 

[campj]

More spiders = more activity.

Anyway, I've been wanting to post this for a little while and this thread happens to be the perfect jumping off point (diversipes is the species I had a little trouble with and am currently raising, it was pointed out that they can be slightly tricky, and the two people with lots of first hand avic experience I feel would oppose this method happened to reply here).

It's pretty simple, both in theory and execution. Hobby norm is high humidity provided by lots of water requires more ventilation to prevent stagnation; this new way is to lower the amount of water and ventilation to provide essentially an equal amount of humidity while making the whole setup lower maintenance and more stable. Makes sense, right? It works.

I was provided a 50 dram vial, some loose potting soil that was very nearly completely dry, a small tube closed at one end as a water dish, and a large sliver of cedar that's the same length as the vial. Instructions were to keep the soil nearly dry, only adding one or two small drops of water if it dries completely. Keep the vial filled with water; use a wet cotton ball stuffed in the open end until the spider is bigger to prevent drowning. Here's the freaky thing: the vial is completely sealed with the exception of a 1/16" hole drilled for ventilation. Voila, that's it. I set up the other diversipes the same way and both have been thriving. The one pictured has molted once in this setup, and I believe is currently in premolt, and the other just molted a second time in its setup.

Thoughts? Or maybe give it a try!

 

[mconnachan]

More spiders = more activity.

Anyway, I've been wanting to post this for a little while and this thread happens to be the perfect jumping off point (diversipes is the species I had a little trouble with and am currently raising, it was pointed out that they can be slightly tricky, and the two people with lots of first hand avic experience I feel would oppose this method happened to reply here).

It's pretty simple, both in theory and execution. Hobby norm is high humidity provided by lots of water requires more ventilation to prevent stagnation; this new way is to lower the amount of water and ventilation to provide essentially an equal amount of humidity while making the whole setup lower maintenance and more stable. Makes sense, right? It works.

I was provided a 50 dram vial, some loose potting soil that was very nearly completely dry, a small tube closed at one end as a water dish, and a large sliver of cedar that's the same length as the vial. Instructions were to keep the soil nearly dry, only adding one or two small drops of water if it dries completely. Keep the vial filled with water; use a wet cotton ball stuffed in the open end until the spider is bigger to prevent drowning. Here's the freaky thing: the vial is completely sealed with the exception of a 1/16" hole drilled for ventilation. Voila, that's it. I set up the other diversipes the same way and both have been thriving. The one pictured has molted once in this setup, and I believe is currently in premolt, and the other just molted a second time in its setup.

Thoughts? Or maybe give it a try! View attachment 245204 View attachment 245205

@campj Very interesting, I suppose you'll never know unless you give it a try, you've obviously had great results from what you're saying, unorthodox to say the least, I may try this method when I get my next Avic, Caribena, or Ybyrapora, you'd better be right or I'll hunt you down and set my P. irminia on you...lol...it's seems you've really come across a full proof way of raising them, however how does the friend you received this method from keep his sub-adults and adults. It may be suitable for slings but for adults...mmm. Post a reply with pictures please.

 

[campj]

I obviously don't have experience with keeping adults this way yet, but yes, he keeps adults very similarly. I'll ask permission to use a picture he sent me.

mconnachan, the owner of the attached picture (Steve Tanabe) granted me permission to post it. Inside the hidey-hole is a female Iridopelma hirsutum with her egg sac. Here's what he had to say about the picture in the midst of us discussing the topic:

"I just found another sac, the NW arboreal Iridopelma hirsutum. Note taped up ventilation holes even in a large acrylic enclosure. Moisture is provided basically by a single 2” diameter water dish. Ventilation is whatever O2 and CO2 gets past the closed acrylic door. After one week the water dish will be empty due to evaporation. In this enclosure I do add some water to the substrate. Much larger room for error, overshoot or undershoot."

If these diversipes we have make it to maturity, we'll keep them just like that. I'm way into terrestrials from South America though (primarily Pamphobeteus), so don't expect much more fresh info coming from me regarding all this. I have to say that it's nice not to feel the need to fret and fuss over the diversipes any more than I do the other spiders we have.
Hope that helps. I may start a thread dedicated to this discussion so that people can possibly experiment, post their successes and failures, etc.

Jon

 

[mconnachan]

mconnachan, the owner of the attached picture (Steve Tanabe) granted me permission to post it. Inside the hidey-hole is a female Iridopelma hirsutum with her egg sac. Here's what he had to say about the picture in the midst of us discussing the topic:

"I just found another sac, the NW arboreal Iridopelma hirsutum. Note taped up ventilation holes even in a large acrylic enclosure. Moisture is provided basically by a single 2” diameter water dish. Ventilation is whatever O2 and CO2 gets past the closed acrylic door. After one week the water dish will be empty due to evaporation. In this enclosure I do add some water to the substrate. Much larger room for error, overshoot or undershoot."

If these diversipes we have make it to maturity, we'll keep them just like that. I'm way into terrestrials from South America though (primarily Pamphobeteus), so don't expect much more fresh info coming from me regarding all this. I have to say that it's nice not to feel the need to fret and fuss over the diversipes any more than I do the other spiders we have.
Hope that helps. I may start a thread dedicated to this discussion so that people can possibly experiment, post their successes and failures, etc.

Jon

Thanks for the reply, yes that would be a great thread to start, it would be extremely informative, the keepers of Avicularia sp. would be very interested, as would I for future reference, once again thanks.

 

[viper69]

and a large sliver of cedar

You really are over complicating their husbandry, but do what you want. Regarding the CEDAR however, that's a big "no-no". It's the belief of most hobbyists that cedar (any wood of the cedar family there are many), given that it's a natural insect repellent, should not be provided to our arachnids as well.

But if you feel it's worth the risk to see if your T suffers/dies or not, that's on you.

All I do for Avics, and former Avics is provide a minimal layer of coco fiber, and a cork bark slab on a diagonal, with a small water bowl. No need to cover up the bowl for fear of drowning.

Avics can swim, there is video of Avics swimming in rivers in S. America. So a tiny water bowl will do nothing.

As for the cotton, it will provide a good substrate for potential pathogens, like bacteria to grow on- this may be overkill, but it's true. Also great for growing mold if there's not enough ventilation.

I think you'd be quite surprised at how simple Avic setups can be with the proper amount of ventilation. My Avics have far more ventilation than that hole.

loose potting soil

Does the potting soil have chemicals in it...many do. You'd be better off with pure top soil or coco fiber.

 

[mconnachan]

You really are over complicating their husbandry, but do what you want. Regarding the CEDAR however, that's a big "no-no". It's the belief of most hobbyists that cedar (any wood of the cedar family there are many), given that it's a natural insect repellent, should not be provided to our arachnids as well.

But if you feel it's worth the risk to see if your T suffers/dies or not, that's on you.

All I do for Avics, and former Avics is provide a minimal layer of coco fiber, and a cork bark slab on a diagonal, with a small water bowl. No need to cover up the bowl for fear of drowning.

Avics can swim, there is video of Avics swimming in rivers in S. America. So a tiny water bowl will do nothing.

As for the cotton, it will provide a good substrate for potential pathogens, like bacteria to grow on- this may be overkill, but it's true. Also great for growing mold if there's not enough ventilation.

I think you'd be quite surprised at how simple Avic setups can be with the proper amount of ventilation. My Avics have far more ventilation than that hole.

Hey @viper69, can you post some pictures of your set-up, your set-up seems simple and effective, I would like to see the differences between yours and @campj set-up, I'm looking for a fool proof way of raising these sp. from sling to adult hood, before I go out and buy any, I had a C. versicolour that croaked on me, it got stuck in it's molt, at that time, oh 10+ years ago I had no clue that I could have intervened to help the poor wee thing, thanks, it would be much appreciated.

 

[Venom1080]

More spiders = more activity.

Anyway, I've been wanting to post this for a little while and this thread happens to be the perfect jumping off point (diversipes is the species I had a little trouble with and am currently raising, it was pointed out that they can be slightly tricky, and the two people with lots of first hand avic experience I feel would oppose this method happened to reply here).

It's pretty simple, both in theory and execution. Hobby norm is high humidity provided by lots of water requires more ventilation to prevent stagnation; this new way is to lower the amount of water and ventilation to provide essentially an equal amount of humidity while making the whole setup lower maintenance and more stable. Makes sense, right? It works.

I was provided a 50 dram vial, some loose potting soil that was very nearly completely dry, a small tube closed at one end as a water dish, and a large sliver of cedar that's the same length as the vial. Instructions were to keep the soil nearly dry, only adding one or two small drops of water if it dries completely. Keep the vial filled with water; use a wet cotton ball stuffed in the open end until the spider is bigger to prevent drowning. Here's the freaky thing: the vial is completely sealed with the exception of a 1/16" hole drilled for ventilation. Voila, that's it. I set up the other diversipes the same way and both have been thriving. The one pictured has molted once in this setup, and I believe is currently in premolt, and the other just molted a second time in its setup.

Thoughts? Or maybe give it a try! View attachment 245204 View attachment 245205

I think That proves that Avicularia require a dry climate. I raised my diversipes with high vent and dry sub with a dish. No issues. Had it since it was 1/2", now 2.5".
Yeah, get rid of the cedar, and I highly doubt the cotton ball is better than water.

 

[boina]

More spiders = more activity.

Anyway, I've been wanting to post this for a little while and this thread happens to be the perfect jumping off point (diversipes is the species I had a little trouble with and am currently raising, it was pointed out that they can be slightly tricky, and the two people with lots of first hand avic experience I feel would oppose this method happened to reply here).

It's pretty simple, both in theory and execution. Hobby norm is high humidity provided by lots of water requires more ventilation to prevent stagnation; this new way is to lower the amount of water and ventilation to provide essentially an equal amount of humidity while making the whole setup lower maintenance and more stable. Makes sense, right? It works.

I was provided a 50 dram vial, some loose potting soil that was very nearly completely dry, a small tube closed at one end as a water dish, and a large sliver of cedar that's the same length as the vial. Instructions were to keep the soil nearly dry, only adding one or two small drops of water if it dries completely. Keep the vial filled with water; use a wet cotton ball stuffed in the open end until the spider is bigger to prevent drowning. Here's the freaky thing: the vial is completely sealed with the exception of a 1/16" hole drilled for ventilation. Voila, that's it. I set up the other diversipes the same way and both have been thriving. The one pictured has molted once in this setup, and I believe is currently in premolt, and the other just molted a second time in its setup.

Thoughts? Or maybe give it a try! View attachment 245204 View attachment 245205

That's a really complicated solution for a very simple problem. The dry substrate and the water bowl (preferably without anything in it) are the only essential variables in this - all the rest is optional. Is making it sound complicated by adding a lot of inconsequential details supposed to make it sound more advanced?

And "Hobby norm is high humidity provided by lots of water" - where did you get that? Hobby norm is to keep Avics on dry substrate and stop worrying about humidity. They need water not humidity, and even yours would probably benefit from more ventilation. If you kept your previous Ybyraporas 'humid' - I'm not surprised they died.

You really are over complicating their husbandry, but do what you want. Regarding the CEDAR however, that's a big "no-no". It's the belief of most hobbyists that cedar (any wood of the cedar family there are many), given that it's a natural insect repellent, should not be provided to our arachnids as well.

But if you feel it's worth the risk to see if your T suffers/dies or not, that's on you.

All I do for Avics, and former Avics is provide a minimal layer of coco fiber, and a cork bark slab on a diagonal, with a small water bowl. No need to cover up the bowl for fear of drowning.

Avics can swim, there is video of Avics swimming in rivers in S. America. So a tiny water bowl will do nothing.

As for the cotton, it will provide a good substrate for potential pathogens, like bacteria to grow on- this may be overkill, but it's true. Also great for growing mold if there's not enough ventilation.

I think you'd be quite surprised at how simple Avic setups can be with the proper amount of ventilation. My Avics have far more ventilation than that hole.

I think in that setup the cedar may actually be essential, since it's certainly antibacterial - you have the cotton ball to promote bacterial growth and no ventilation to remove said growth by air flow, so you better put something in to stop the bacteria from taking over. Of course it can all be avoided at much more comfort for the spider...

 

[campj]

It's really not complicated at all, and a safe method supported by a breeder and dealer who stakes at least part of his livelihood on it. My spiders are thriving based on his advice, which I might add is backed by sound science, not just a hunch. Has anyone here actually used cedar in enclosures and had negative effects to the spider, or is this just hearsay passed down through the years? I've had no issues with the cotton either (I swap it whenever the vial needs filled, and I keep it filled to the top which means I change it every couple days). I think there's lots of information that gets passed around without anyone testing it out to verify it, and that doesn't sound line science to me.

My spiders look and act totally content. I've owned a couple hundred tarantulas through the years and have seen malcontent spiders, so it's not like I can't recognize the symptoms. And Steve owns and has owned literally THOUSANDS of spiders, and his are thriving too. I say try it out if you're curious. It's basically dummy proof, very low maintenance, and perfectly safe.

 

[nicodimus22]

Has anyone here actually used cedar in enclosures and had negative effects to the spider, or is this just hearsay passed down through the years?

Well, as someone who has owned various rodents over the last 40 years, I can tell you that the aromatic oil present in cedar shavings (which smells pleasant to us) irritates their respiratory system, and often results in URIs, which can be fatal. I have no data on whether it negatively affects the respiratory system of tarantulas or not, but it seems plausible to me that airborne chemicals that irritate one animal's system could irritate another's.

So, looking at risk vs reward for this situation, it doesn't seem like there is much to be gained by using something that might be making our animals uncomfortable and/or unhealthy when you can use something equally cheap and abundant like topsoil, Eco Earth, etc with no known risks.

 

[campj]

I think you may have misunderstood. The cedar isn't used as a substrate, a single chip of it is used as a webbing anchor. And boina is correct, its antibacterial nature resists mold which is why cedar is used.

I guess I should add that one of the ones I have doesn't have cedar or cotton because I didn't have the right sized tubes for water (using two straws instead) or any extra cedar when I set it up, but everything is fine. I've been watching that one more carefully for mold, but nothing yet. I've since acquired more cedar and will swap it with the other wood if mold becomes a problem.

 

[boina]

It's really not complicated at all, and a safe method supported by a breeder and dealer who stakes at least part of his livelihood on it. My spiders are thriving based on his advice, which I might add is backed by sound science, not just a hunch. Has anyone here actually used cedar in enclosures and had negative effects to the spider, or is this just hearsay passed down through the years? I've had no issues with the cotton either (I swap it whenever the vial needs filled, and I keep it filled to the top which means I change it every couple days). I think there's lots of information that gets passed around without anyone testing it out to verify it, and that doesn't sound line science to me.

My spiders look and act totally content. I've owned a couple hundred tarantulas through the years and have seen malcontent spiders, so it's not like I can't recognize the symptoms. And Steve owns and has owned literally THOUSANDS of spiders, and his are thriving too. I say try it out if you're curious. It's basically dummy proof, very low maintenance, and perfectly safe.

Here's a scientific thought for you: Just because something works doesn't mean other methods won't work just as well - or even better.

Will I try out your method? Hell, no. I know that cotton in water breeds bacteria - it has been proven more than a 100 years ago and I can prove it again just by leaving a cotton ball in water - it gets slimy and nasty rather sooner than later. And it doesn't make it easier for the spider to drink. Why would I want to use something that definitely isn't needed but may cause problems?
The cedar - I don't know. It may affect the spider or it may not. If it works for you, good for you. Why would I want to try it if I can use other things just as well?
I really object to the low ventilation, though. Restricted ventilation has been proven to cause problems in the keeping of many animals, especially tree dwellers that are adapted to constant air flow. I'm not (ab-)using my spiders to test if they will actually be able to deal with restricted ventilation, even long term.

As for the rest? I keep my Avics and similar on dry substrate, nothing new there.