Will Mature male tarantulas drum for an immature male?

[Brittany2222]

Hi, I'm new to the hobby and am trying to get better at sexing my t's. I had what I thought was an immature male, but I happened to have a mature male next to its enclosure and the mature male started drumming. So, I'm wondering if mature males will do this for any t regardless of sex, or if my immature male is actually female?

 

[Mikey t]

I’ve personally never seen it but I’ve heard that they will. They will definitely drum to other species so I don’t see why not.

 

[Matt Man]

NTTAWWT

 

[Liquifin]

Males will drum out of desperation for a female. Sometimes they just drum regardless if there is another T. near by or not. They don't just drum because a tarantula neighbor beside them is another tarantula. If it's a female then it will respond back to your male. In your case, it just seems like a male that is looking for female.

If you're unsure, then get a ventral shot of this other specimen to confirm if it is a male or not.

I’ve personally never seen it but I’ve heard that they will. They will definitely drum to other species so I don’t see why not.

A misconception. Males will drum to search/locate a female. I have had made males drum in the middle of the night out in search for female despite no females being around or close to them. Also your wording sounds like you're encouraging hybrids which I hope that isn't what you're aiming for.

 

[Almadabes]

I've read a few things that suggest spiders have pheromones that help males ID a female.

My Gf says she can sometimes "drum" softly on the enclosure of our adult female LP and she will respond.
I don't believe that tho. I think she's just moving around.

I did a quick search just now and found and found an abstract of an article written by Dr. Anne C Gaskett, PhD in Biology.

I'm pretty sure she is discussing true spider species - but I don't doubt pheromones play a part in T mating.
from what we know - they've got terrible eyesight so I doubt they just look up and go "damn that girl is fineee" there has to be some kind of indicator.

"In the spiders, pheromones are generally emitted by females and received by males, but this pattern is not universal. Female spiders emit cuticular and/or silk-based sex pheromones, which can be airborne or received via contact with chemoreceptors on male pedipalps. Airborne pheromones primarily attract males or elicit male searching behaviour. Contact pheromones stimulate male courtship behaviour and provide specific information about the emitter's identity."

"Spider sex pheromones... are not necessarily species-specific, although they can still assist with species recognition."

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[Mikey t]

Males will drum out of desperation for a female. Sometimes they just drum regardless if there is another T. near by or not. They don't just drum because a tarantula neighbor beside them is another tarantula. If it's a female then it will respond back to your male. In your case, it just seems like a male that is looking for female.

If you're unsure, then get a ventral shot of this other specimen to confirm if it is a male or not.

A misconception. Males will drum to search/locate a female. I have had made males drum in the middle of the night out in search for female despite no females being around or close to them. Also your wording sounds like you're encouraging hybrids which I hope that isn't what you're aiming for.

Certainly not, and not sure how it could be perceived as such. All i was saying is that i have heard instances of males drumming to other males and i know for a fact if 2 enclosures are next to each other they will drum. Now wheather thats searching for a mate as you suggest or reacting to the visual cue of another spider I cant say. I have noticed they do tend to face the direction or be on the same side as the other spider. Just my observations. Sorry you didn't get my meaning.

 

[Reezelbeezelbug]

This is pretty interesting, I only just recently started breeding so it's on my mind how it goes down. I had assumed that when the male touches the female web, that's what sets him off. At least that's what I've noticed in my limited number of pairings, he touches the web and immediately starts drumming.

Before this next bit I guess I gotta say, "No, I am not advocating for creating hybrids." With that out of the way, I recently rehoused my mature female D diamantinensis, but didn't tear any webbing or anything out of her old enclosure. I have a couple Cyriocosmus males that are just wandering like crazy, so I thought it would be interesting to see if it's just the web (like I had assumed) that triggers the male or something else. I introduced the male Cyriocosmus to the old, empty, ex-diamantinensis enclosure (AGAIN, SHE'S NOT IN THERE IN CASE YOU MISSED IT) and he just froze. After a brief period of just standing there, he turned around and walked out and away from the D diamantinensis webbing.

So in my small, not-super-scientific experiment, my hypothesis that a female tarantula's webbing is all a male needs to get all hot and bothered was proven incorrect. He could tell that was the webbing of the wrong kind of female and wanted nothing to do with it. That leads me to believe, similar to the paper linked above, that phermones not only help the T identify a female, but probably also that she's the right species. Super limited data set, you can hardly call my experiment anything resembling science, but it was interesting to me.

 

[Mikey t]

This is pretty interesting, I only just recently started breeding so it's on my mind how it goes down. I had assumed that when the male touches the female web, that's what sets him off. At least that's what I've noticed in my limited number of pairings, he touches the web and immediately starts drumming.

Before this next bit I guess I gotta say, "No, I am not advocating for creating hybrids." With that out of the way, I recently rehoused my mature female D diamantinensis, but didn't tear any webbing or anything out of her old enclosure. I have a couple Cyriocosmus males that are just wandering like crazy, so I thought it would be interesting to see if it's just the web (like I had assumed) that triggers the male or something else. I introduced the male Cyriocosmus to the old, empty, ex-diamantinensis enclosure (AGAIN, SHE'S NOT IN THERE IN CASE YOU MISSED IT) and he just froze. After a brief period of just standing there, he turned around and walked out and away from the D diamantinensis webbing.

So in my small, not-super-scientific experiment, my hypothesis that a female tarantula's webbing is all a male needs to get all hot and bothered was proven incorrect. He could tell that was the webbing of the wrong kind of female and wanted nothing to do with it. That leads me to believe, similar to the paper linked above, that phermones not only help the T identify a female, but probably also that she's the right species. Super limited data set, you can hardly call my experiment anything resembling science, but it was interesting to me.

To the point of hybrids tho, I suppose the fact that they exist and have become an issue might suggest that the pheromones aren’t species specific but I will agree there definitely are pheromones or scent of some kind. They males demeanor will change instantly if put in a females enclosure even before he sees her so it’s has to be some other cue. Maybe they rely on a combination of stimuli.

 

[Almadabes]

To the point of hybrids tho, I suppose the fact that they exist and have become an issue might suggest that the pheromones aren’t species specific but I will agree there definitely are pheromones or scent of some kind. They males demeanor will change instantly if put in a females enclosure even before he sees her so it’s has to be some other cue. Maybe they rely on a combination of stimuli.

I do not have a lot of knowledge on cross-breeding - I haven't looked into it because it's not something I would do.

When people do it, are they usually staying within a genus?
Are there enough similarities in a genus that may lead them to beleive the mate is a viable candidate?
If you tried 2 completely different genera would they reject and move on?

in Reezelbeezelbug's very basic experiment - they are 2 different genera and the male did seem to nope out of there. But I suppose there could be other factors.

 

[Mikey t]

I do not have a lot of knowledge on cross-breeding - I haven't looked into it because it's not something I would do.

When people do it, are they usually staying within a genus?
Are there enough similarities in a genus that may lead them to beleive the mate is a viable candidate?
If you tried 2 completely different genera would they reject and move on?

in Reezelbeezelbug's very basic experiment - they are 2 different genera and the male did seem to nope out of there. But I suppose there could be other factors.

As far as I know hybrids are all the same genus. I don’t think it’s physiologically possible otherwise. So maybe it’s close enough to get them interested.

 

[basin79]

I've read a few things that suggest spiders have pheromones that help males ID a female.

My Gf says she can sometimes "drum" softly on the enclosure of our adult female LP and she will respond.
I don't believe that tho. I think she's just moving around.

I did a quick search just now and found and found an abstract of an article written by Dr. Anne C Gaskett, PhD in Biology.

I'm pretty sure she is discussing true spider species - but I don't doubt pheromones play a part in T mating.
from what we know - they've got terrible eyesight so I doubt they just look up and go "damn that girl is fineee" there has to be some kind of indicator.

I follow a bloke on Instagram and he had a video of him tapping on the outside of his adult female GBB's enclosure and she 100% drums back to him.

 

[Reezelbeezelbug]

I do not have a lot of knowledge on cross-breeding - I haven't looked into it because it's not something I would do.

When people do it, are they usually staying within a genus?
Are there enough similarities in a genus that may lead them to beleive the mate is a viable candidate?
If you tried 2 completely different genera would they reject and move on?

in Reezelbeezelbug's very basic experiment - they are 2 different genera and the male did seem to nope out of there. But I suppose there could be other factors.

Very good point about different genera. Also D diamantinensis doesn't have urticating hairs but cyriocosmus do, so if that plays a part at all, then my experiment is even less useful

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

Personal experience, happened a couple of times with C. fimbriatus, B. albiceps, B. klaasi and T. seladonia.

I put the pair together, they made all the proccess and copulated.

Few months later, the "female" molted and an awesome, wrongly sexed, mature male, arose out of it.

I tend to trust in people so, since I won these pairs as a couple, I didn't mind sexed them to confirm. Lol.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I follow a bloke on Instagram and he had a video of him tapping on the outside of his adult female GBB's enclosure and she 100% drums back to him.

Can you share a link to that video? I would like to see that.

Personal experience, happened a couple of times with C. fimbriatus, B. albiceps, B. klaasi and T. seladonia.

I put the pair together, they made all the proccess and copulated.

Few months later, the "female" molted and an awesome, wrongly sexed, mature male, arose out of it.

I tend to trust in people so, since I won these pairs as a couple, I didn't mind sexed them to confirm. Lol.

If there was courtship behavior between an immature male and a mature male prior to copulation, then I wonder if immature males have a higher amount of female sex hormones until maturity despite having testes. Of course hormones are responsible for the physical changes a male undergoes from immature to mature, but now I question if there are different hormones responsible for the sex drive and behavior.

Has anyone heard of two mature males of the same, or different, species courting and mating with each other?

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

If there was courtship behavior between an immature male and a mature male prior to copulation,

Yes, there was courtship behavior. I really need to register the pairings again, lol.

Has anyone heard of two mature males of the same, or different, species courting and mating with each other?

That would be a first to me.

 

[basin79]

Can you share a link to that video? I would like to see that.

Yep. Here's the link. I've asked him permission to share mods and can provide proof in a PM if you need.

http://instagr.am/p/CIDu9w8CRqG/

 

[The Spider House]

Yep. Here's the link. I've asked him permission to share mods and can provide proof in a PM if you need.

http://instagr.am/p/CIDu9w8CRqG/

Great little video segment.

 

[basin79]

Great little video segment.

Aye. He has a great insta account. Keeps tarantulas, spiders and some DWA snakes.

 

[The Spider House]

Aye. He has a great insta account. Keeps tarantulas, spiders and some DWA snakes.

Nice....

My GBBs currently drumming to each other so hopefully I have success with this male.

M balfouri just finished pairing and A. Geniculata on the go today too.

Edit....C versi too

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Wether we talk about “hybrids” or not hybrids will exist in captivity. It’s up to each tarantula collector individual to preserve the existence of a pure species. Therefore mating with the same genus/species is a must. Now, can two tarantulas from different genus of the opposite continent of the world mate? Yes they can! And it has been proven. Can a female that was mated with a male of a different genus produce fertile eggs? That is yet to be proven. Is it possible for reproduction? I believe so. Though just because mating, and possibly fertile egg sacs in captivity can happen between two different genus from different parts of the world doesn’t mean we should allow these species to mate to create “hybrids”. It’s not like a Xenesthis species is going to travel on its own to North America and mate with an Aphonopelma species.