Will handling a tarantula from a sling cause it to be "sweeter"?

[Dovey]

I'm getting my first tarantula soon, an Avicularia Versicolor. I've done so much research for nearly a year now, and I think I'm ready. I would like to handle it every so often, and I was wondering if someone who has been in the hobby for a while could answer a strange question. Would handling it from its youth cause it to grow up more docile? I wish they could understand affection.

You know, I keep a lot of different kinds of animals, and there are strongly held opinions in every fancy. No RIGHT THINKING person would EVER keep a single rat in solitary confinement, and I will not sell rats except in pairs or trios, since they are such social animals...except that then I accepted a surrendered rat that for all the world was one of life's hermits, if not actually sociopathic. Hey, rats are such good test subjects precisely because they are so much like us in so many ways. Sociopathy happens in our species, so why not theirs? I know now that some rats (though not many) want or need to be alone from a young age. Different experiences and different schools of thought or education can lead good people to hold vastly differing views.

A strict purist would say tarantulas emphatically DO NOT BELONG IN CAPTIVITY, anyway, so there really isn't that much room up on that crowded high horse, is there? I quote Ingrid Newkirk (PETA founder) below, though I think she's an extremist zealot and she would call me a multi-species prison warden at best!

I do occasionally handle some of my tarantulas, but certainly not others. Usually it is in the process of transferring them, and at such times I am on my guard against the "yikeys!" response that is hardwired into most of us when a spider is suddenly crawling on us (just like, though I snuggle and kiss my ratties and have held firm without moving when a hurt rat sunk its scalpel-sharp incisors into my thumb right to the bone, I still squeal like a wee girl when a wild mouse or rat suddenly runs across my path!).

I especially find it useful to let slings explore my hands and arms so that I can clearly see if they have been eating properly, to observe growth, and to see if a molt was successful (after the delicate stage of recovery, of course). It is useful, but also pleasant. I regularly handle a 2 inch L. parahybana sling, my tiny 1/4 inch B. emilia, an adolescent G. pulcra, and any sized Aphonopelma (what can I say...I grew up in TX and AZ dragging the poor things home like puppies!). Some might call it harrassment, I call it enrichment. For me and for them. And back off, y'all purists: I've got a degree in animal behavior w/specialization in inverts from an impressively snotty school...we are not at home to Mr. Anthropomorphism. In my educated opinion, the behavior of these individuals indicates contentment while exploring this new, unthreatening environment.

I don't handle the adult Chilean Rose because I got it as an adult and don't know it's temperament, though it would probably be fine. I also don't handle any of the Psalmopoeus or Avicularia in my collection unless I have an escapee during transfer, and only then to gently coax, not really hold. They are just too fast and fearful. I also don't handle O. giganteus (Sonoran Giant Crab Spider) or L. hesperus (Western Black Widow), not because they would be aggressive (really: defensive - not the same thing as agression at all) but because they would be terrified.

Another consideration is hair kicking. If an individual kicks hairs, it isn't one you should hold - clearly it is fearful.

Were I you, I would explore the gorgeous Aphonopelmas...don't hate them because they're home grown and relatively cheap! I will say this re: arboreal species: of all my arboreals, the A. versicolor is the slowest (relatively!) and most calm when I do cage maintenance. She is also the only one that will tong-feed, which may or may not be an indicator of temperament - she may just be a ravenous feeder, more prone to bite, thinking your tong or hand is prey.

Which brings me to my final comment: never, ever remove any tarantula from its home with your hand, no matter how docile the species. Any spider will defend its nest, and any spider might bite in a mistaken feed response.

And I wish they could understand, too; but affection is really mostly a mammal thing. For what it's worth, there is no love like rattie love...maybe try rats? They're nearly as smart as dogs (smarter than cats!), clean, they demonsrate affection and empathy, and are generally just awesome little animals.

Read Temple Grandin 's book, Animals Make Us Human: Creating the Best life for Animals. It's an easy read, there's a great audible version at Audible.com for free (if you do a trial membership), and her theory that what all animals DO have in common is 1) a need for the opportunity to search or hunt (a job) and 2) freedom from fear, in order to live a rich life, makes serious sense to me.

 

[magicmed]

You know, I keep a lot of different kinds of animals, and there are strongly held opinions in every fancy. No RIGHT THINKING person would EVER keep a single rat in solitary confinement, and I will not sell rats except in pairs or trios, since they are such social animals...except that then I accepted a surrendered rat that for all the world was one of life's hermits, if not actually sociopathic. Hey, rats are such good test subjects precisely because they are so much like us in so many ways. Sociopathy happens in our species, so why not theirs? I know now that some rats (though not many) want or need to be alone from a young age. Different experiences and different schools of thought or education can lead good people to hold vastly differing views.

A strict purist would say tarantulas emphatically DO NOT BELONG IN CAPTIVITY, anyway, so there really isn't that much room up on that crowded high horse, is there? I quote Ingrid Newkirk (PETA founder) below, though I think she's an extremist zealot and she would call me a multi-species prison warden at best!

I do occasionally handle some of my tarantulas, but certainly not others. Usually it is in the process of transferring them, and at such times I am on my guard against the "yikeys!" response that is hardwired into most of us when a spider is suddenly crawling on us (just like, though I snuggle and kiss my ratties and have held firm without moving when a hurt rat sunk its scalpel-sharp incisors into my thumb right to the bone, I still squeal like a wee girl when a wild mouse or rat suddenly runs across my path!).

I especially find it useful to let slings explore my hands and arms so that I can clearly see if they have been eating properly, to observe growth, and to see if a molt was successful (after the delicate stage of recovery, of course). It is useful, but also pleasant. I regularly handle a 2 inch L. parahybana sling, my tiny 1/4 inch B. emilia, an adolescent G. pulcra, and any sized Aphonopelma (what can I say...I grew up in TX and AZ dragging the poor things home like puppies!). Some might call it harrassment, I call it enrichment. For me and for them. And back off, y'all purists: I've got a degree in animal behavior w/specialization in inverts from an impressively snotty school...we are not at home to Mr. Anthropomorphism. In my educated opinion, the behavior of these individuals indicates contentment while exploring this new, unthreatening environment.

I don't handle the adult Chilean Rose because I got it as an adult and don't know it's temperament, though it would probably be fine. I also don't handle any of the Psalmopoeus or Avicularia in my collection unless I have an escapee during transfer, and only then to gently coax, not really hold. They are just too fast and fearful. I also don't handle O. giganteus (Sonoran Giant Crab Spider) or L. hesperus (Western Black Widow), not because they would be aggressive (really: defensive - not the same thing as agression at all) but because they would be terrified.

Another consideration is hair kicking. If an individual kicks hairs, it isn't one you should hold - clearly it is fearful.

Were I you, I would explore the gorgeous Aphonopelmas...don't hate them because they're home grown and relatively cheap! I will say this re: arboreal species: of all my arboreals, the A. versicolor is the slowest (relatively!) and most calm when I do cage maintenance. She is also the only one that will tong-feed, which may or may not be an indicator of temperament - she may just be a ravenous feeder, more prone to bite, thinking your tong or hand is prey.

Which brings me to my final comment: never, ever remove any tarantula from its home with your hand, no matter how docile the species. Any spider will defend its nest, and any spider might bite in a mistaken feed response.

And I wish they could understand, too; but affection is really mostly a mammal thing. For what it's worth, there is no love like rattie love...maybe try rats? They're nearly as smart as dogs (smarter than cats!), clean, they demonsrate affection and empathy, and are generally just awesome little animals.

Read Temple Grandin 's book, Animals Make Us Human: Creating the Best life for Animals. It's an easy read, there's a great audible version at Audible.com for free (if you do a trial membership), and her theory that what all animals DO have in common is 1) a need for the opportunity to search or hunt (a job) and 2) freedom from fear, in order to live a rich life, makes serious sense to me.

You kinda just made me feel bad for feeding rats my my snake...of course I used frozen/thawed, but I didn't know they had a social order and exhibited signs of affection.

 

[Matabuey]

You kinda just made me feel bad for feeding rats my my snake...of course I used frozen/thawed, but I didn't know they had a social order and exhibited signs of affection.

I feel like that sometimes. I will never feed live. Wish snakes could be veggies, but seeing as they aren't, it's ok i guess haha.

They're supposed to be really intelligent and loyal pets too.

 

[magicmed]

I feel like that sometimes. I will never feed live. Wish snakes could be veggies, but seeing as they aren't, it's ok i guess haha.

They're supposed to be really intelligent and loyal pets too.

Oh sure make me feel worse

I have never tried to keep rats, I had mice when I was very young, but all I can remember from them was they like to breed like crazy, and they're nippy....or maybe they just didn't like me lol.

 

[EulersK]

I have never tried to keep rats, I had mice when I was very young, but all I can remember from them was they like to breed like crazy, and they're nippy....or maybe they just didn't like me lol.

I had mice when I was a kid. I quickly had a mouse Turns out you can't house males together.

 

[Veribug]

I think rats and mice are fairly different in temperament though. I've found in my experience that rats are more affectionate than mice. They probably have a larger brain capacity for it due to their size (though I never did much research into animals, human biology and chemistry was my forté)

There is one solid reason that I firmly stand by as to why tarantulas, scientifically, cannot learn to enjoy handling and not see it as a fear response when compared to mammals: the lack of a brain.
Because they don't have one, tarantulas are literally reflexes with legs. Because humans and mammals (and anything with a brain) have added control and mental power, we can teach ourselves to overcome the force of a reflex (e.g. Not dropping a hot plate of food because we don't want to lose our dinner, even though it's hurting our hands) but tarantulas do not have the capacity to do such a thing.

At least that is what I believe.

 

[Jeff23]

You know, I keep a lot of different kinds of animals, and there are strongly held opinions in every fancy. No RIGHT THINKING person would EVER keep a single rat in solitary confinement, and I will not sell rats except in pairs or trios, since they are such social animals...except that then I accepted a surrendered rat that for all the world was one of life's hermits, if not actually sociopathic. Hey, rats are such good test subjects precisely because they are so much like us in so many ways. Sociopathy happens in our species, so why not theirs? I know now that some rats (though not many) want or need to be alone from a young age. Different experiences and different schools of thought or education can lead good people to hold vastly differing views.

A strict purist would say tarantulas emphatically DO NOT BELONG IN CAPTIVITY, anyway, so there really isn't that much room up on that crowded high horse, is there? I quote Ingrid Newkirk (PETA founder) below, though I think she's an extremist zealot and she would call me a multi-species prison warden at best!

I do occasionally handle some of my tarantulas, but certainly not others. Usually it is in the process of transferring them, and at such times I am on my guard against the "yikeys!" response that is hardwired into most of us when a spider is suddenly crawling on us (just like, though I snuggle and kiss my ratties and have held firm without moving when a hurt rat sunk its scalpel-sharp incisors into my thumb right to the bone, I still squeal like a wee girl when a wild mouse or rat suddenly runs across my path!).

I especially find it useful to let slings explore my hands and arms so that I can clearly see if they have been eating properly, to observe growth, and to see if a molt was successful (after the delicate stage of recovery, of course). It is useful, but also pleasant. I regularly handle a 2 inch L. parahybana sling, my tiny 1/4 inch B. emilia, an adolescent G. pulcra, and any sized Aphonopelma (what can I say...I grew up in TX and AZ dragging the poor things home like puppies!). Some might call it harrassment, I call it enrichment. For me and for them. And back off, y'all purists: I've got a degree in animal behavior w/specialization in inverts from an impressively snotty school...we are not at home to Mr. Anthropomorphism. In my educated opinion, the behavior of these individuals indicates contentment while exploring this new, unthreatening environment.

I don't handle the adult Chilean Rose because I got it as an adult and don't know it's temperament, though it would probably be fine. I also don't handle any of the Psalmopoeus or Avicularia in my collection unless I have an escapee during transfer, and only then to gently coax, not really hold. They are just too fast and fearful. I also don't handle O. giganteus (Sonoran Giant Crab Spider) or L. hesperus (Western Black Widow), not because they would be aggressive (really: defensive - not the same thing as agression at all) but because they would be terrified.

Another consideration is hair kicking. If an individual kicks hairs, it isn't one you should hold - clearly it is fearful.

Were I you, I would explore the gorgeous Aphonopelmas...don't hate them because they're home grown and relatively cheap! I will say this re: arboreal species: of all my arboreals, the A. versicolor is the slowest (relatively!) and most calm when I do cage maintenance. She is also the only one that will tong-feed, which may or may not be an indicator of temperament - she may just be a ravenous feeder, more prone to bite, thinking your tong or hand is prey.

Which brings me to my final comment: never, ever remove any tarantula from its home with your hand, no matter how docile the species. Any spider will defend its nest, and any spider might bite in a mistaken feed response.

And I wish they could understand, too; but affection is really mostly a mammal thing. For what it's worth, there is no love like rattie love...maybe try rats? They're nearly as smart as dogs (smarter than cats!), clean, they demonsrate affection and empathy, and are generally just awesome little animals.

Read Temple Grandin 's book, Animals Make Us Human: Creating the Best life for Animals. It's an easy read, there's a great audible version at Audible.com for free (if you do a trial membership), and her theory that what all animals DO have in common is 1) a need for the opportunity to search or hunt (a job) and 2) freedom from fear, in order to live a rich life, makes serious sense to me.

I don't have the experience to agree or disagree on your handling logic. I will only handle a T if it comes out of the container and my hand is the safest route for it to prevent injury. The only normal or smaller size T that I have seen on video willingly walk into someone's hand in a calm manner is a Euathlus Sp. Red. I saw a Giant T Blondie that was willing but it put the owner in an awkward position by climbing over his shoulder onto his back. He was forced to lay on the floor.

Do you tong feed with metal tools?

 

[Dovey]

You kinda just made me feel bad for feeding rats my my snake...of course I used frozen/thawed, but I didn't know they had a social order and exhibited signs of affection.

Tell me about it! I have three rat-eating ball pythons. I'd like a look at my frozen/thawed rodent producer's husbandry and the level settings on their CO2 tanks. It takes more time to anesthetize a rodent and THEN euthanize it, and I'd like to know that they are taking that time so that animals don't die choking to death in mortal panic, but rather just drop off to sleep. We should all be so lucky as to experience that death.

And, yes rats do exhibit affection, and even empathy. They care for each other's young in the colony. Healthy rats will bring food to sick rats, and I've even seen a daughter rat hitting the water bottle repeatedly with her paw to make a pool under it for her geriatric mother to drink from when arthritis in the mother's neck made reaching up to drink from the bottle uncomfortable. That's better care than many human children exhibit toward their aging parents.

I suspect rats are so much more intelligent than other rodents because they are predators as well as prey and need big brains to hunt. I have to be VERY careful that my Tarantulas, frogs, fish, birds, and lizards are all secure before free-ranging the ratties, or they would have every terrarium open and eat every creature on the place that didn't eat them first! Rats NEARLY have opposable thumbs, too. They are really more like raccoons in behavior than they are like other rodents.

And I would argue that tarantulas do have brains. They may not have a frontal cortex, but they do exhibit decision-making behavior (i.e., doing A instead of B) based on changing circumstances (stimuli) as well as instinctual responses. To talk about whether they learn and remember, one first must establish what those terms mean...and then we're off and running on semantics! Bleh.

My gut tells me that spiders register and respond to routine, and something that doesn't eat them today will likely not eat them tomorrow. They can get used to something, like walking or sitting on a hand - is that memory? But I've no data or studies to back up that impression - just a pretty reliable, if ever expanding, gut.

Finally, I know of no studies that have ever shown any species to be less intellegent than previously thought, only more. My money's on spiders being able to learn and remember to some extent. Time will tell - this is the century of the brain!

 

[Dovey]

veribug, you are SO right about rats vs. mice! Mice are all: "OMG, She picked me up! Poop on her hand!" Whereas rats will "help" you in the garden , sort out the knitting basket for you , push the superfluous knick - knacks off your dresser and bookshelves , and help edit your dissertation by sitting on the DELETE button just as you get that tough paragraph the way you want it . They WANT to be out with you and exploring. Its sort of like having a bunch of toddlers running all over the place.

 

[Dovey]

Whereas, I find tarantula keeping calming and meditative. I always see to my spiders last thing before bed.

 

[magicmed]

veribug, you are SO right about rats vs. mice! Mice are all: "OMG, She picked me up! Poop on her hand!" Whereas rats will "help" you in the garden , sort out the knitting basket for you , push the superfluous knick - knacks off your dresser and bookshelves , and help edit your dissertation by sitting on the DELETE button just as you get that tough paragraph the way you want it . They WANT to be out with you and exploring. Its sort of like having a bunch of toddlers running all over the place.

Please stop, you're making me think rats are cute!

 

[JumpingSpiderLady]

 

[magicmed]

View attachment 219263

No! No no no!

 

[Dovey]

Please stop, you're making me think rats are cute!

Death by cuteness: http://amazingcentral.com/cute-rat-pictures-by-jessica-florence/

 

[magicmed]

Death by cuteness: http://amazingcentral.com/cute-rat-pictures-by-jessica-florence/

Wow, if I didn't already have a zoo in my house, and I had a female human that would not only put up with said zoo but those too, I think I'd have to have a couple of those cuties lol. I think the tarantulas, snake and lizard do a good job of scaring off any interested female already lol

 

[Dovey]

 

[Dovey]

Yeah, personal admission: OK I was a little disappointed when "Invertsonals" turned out to be for the animals in search of mates, and not their keepers. Seriously.

 

[Trenor]

I'm sorry, they are still not even a pet for me. Glad someone like them though.

 

[Dovey]

To each his own, Trenor. Rats certainly have a PR problem . Know how I got interested in them? Doing research for a play I was directing about the black death!

 

[magicmed]

I'm sorry, they are still not even a pet for me. Glad someone like them though.

I can understand that, I've seen them as just snake food for a while, not saying I'll be getting rats as pets, but I definitely understand now how people can see them as such good pets, learning what I did in this thread and seeing those adorable pics. A lot of people think I'm crazy for the pets I keep, so I like to keep an open mind.