will a hot rock roast my lithophile??

[Mechanical-Mind]

i picked up a good book on African Flat rocks. It noted that for added growth toss a heat rock in the tank with a greased cord (so as to prevent any escape) and the heat on their gizzards would induce voracious behavior. more consumption more growth, i'm sure you've heard this much before. my question comes from previous knowledge in reptiles regarding heat rocks and how they're notorious for inducing burns. i'm well aware these aren't reptiles but i'm a bit new to the arachnid scene. Will the hot rock roast my scorplings, or has anyone tried this method before? good results? anything would be helpful.
thx,
-matt

 

[fatbloke]

Mechanical-Mind im not that experienced with scorpions but with all scorpions you should never have heat coming from below as a scorpion will dig down to escape from the heat either attach a heat mat to the back of 1 end or use a over head heat source but using a heat rock it will probably cook yor scorpions


fatbloke

 

[Kaos]

HI

I have also read somewhere that a "Hot Rock" should be good for them. I have seen some new "digital" ones that should'nt overheat. Maybe that could be the thing for you.:?

 

[skinheaddave]

First of all, what book was it? I am highly skeptical of any book that uses "gizzard" and "scorpion" in the same chapter, much less sentence.

Now, as for flat rocks, I don't know. I am inclined to say no for the reason that fatbloke stated, as well as others. Scorpions rarely "bask," you see, so they won't be crawling on top of the rock and just sitting there soaking up the heat. What is more likely is that they will burrow under the rock. Now, this does provide heat in the right orientation, but I wonder if it will be too much, too descicating or have some other problem associated with it. I would be much more inclined to stick with a heat pad on the side of the enclosure or a lamp towards one end. If, however, you chose to use it, please keep us informed.

Oh, and as for added growth, that tends to come at the expense of lifespan. "Live fast, die young" would be an appropriate phrase at this point.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[SpiderFood]

As far as I know scorpions dont have "gizzards". I think thats a characteristic of fowl and other birds. I have never heard of any other animals having gizzards, e.g. mammals, reptiles, fish, invertebrates. I could be wrong but I dont think so on this one.

Later


Dale

 

[Mechanical-Mind]

haha, we certainly stomped on me for some word usage. i'll do my best to correct any misapprehensions...

in an attempt to prove i'm not a complete dumbass if you look up the word gizzard in merriam-webster's online dictionary you'll notice that it says:

1 a : the muscular enlargement of the alimentary canal of birds that has usually thick muscular walls and a tough horny lining for grinding the food and when the crop is present follows it and the proventriculus b : a thickened part of the alimentary canal in some animals (as an insect or an earthworm) that is similar in function to the crop of a bird
2 : INNARDS

now i'm well aware these are aren't "INSECTS" but rather arachnids. but, beings as they're all arthropods i assumed they'd have to have relatively similar digestive tracts. sry for causing the descrepancy.

as for the book it was actually a site online. it's pretty informative. take a look. The advice regarding hot rocks is on the 3rd paragraph down under the heading "Captive Care" the site.

thx for your help. sry again.
-matt

 

[defour]

I figured you weren't a complete dumbass when I read your first post; dumb people never say "lithophile," except under rare circumstances combining an accidental blow to the crotch and a case of bud light. Even then, they don't know what it means. I did wonder about "gizzard" though, but thought maybe you were using it informally to mean "organs".

I agree about avoiding heat from the bottom with any burrowing invert. I would go with heat tape or a lamp.

Welcome to the forums!

Steve

 

[Wade]

I've also read an article that suggested the use of a hot rock for flat rocks. It was in the Vivarium magazine (the only invert article they ever ran) by Stephen W. Bullington. He described scorpions deliberately pressing their abdomens to the hot rock after feeding. It's a well-written article and he seems to know what he's talking about, but he does include a photo of a scorp that died during molting and was found under the hot rock!

The idea may have some merit. It seems plausible that this could speed digestion, and that it COULD reflect the scorpions natural behaviour, possibly they warm themselves on sun heated rocks after dark...rocks can retain heat for hours after dark, unlike soil, sand and other substrates. Also, I think an animal that lives in an eviroment where super-heated rocks are part of the enviroment would move off it if it was too hot. Most reptiles that get burned on hot rocks are those that are accustomed to basking in the sun, such as iguanas and other dinuaral lizards, and are not used to "belly heat". I'd suspect that, given their habitat and nocturnal habits, flat rocks would be accustomed to warm rocks.

Still, I'd use a lot of caution if you decide to try it. I share Dave's concerns about dessication, especially since you're dealing with little ones. IME hot rocks get really hot (duh), I once taped a thermometer probe to one while plugged in and it got up to 130 F! This can be tempered by burrying the rock in the substrate, and laying a flat piece of slate on top. If the hot rock is touching the bottom of the tank, you won't have to worry about the scorp burrowing under it, although in my limited experience with flat rocks, they don't seem to move much substrate at all. The one I'm currently keeping spends all it's time in the crevices between the stacked rocks I've provided and I've never seen it even toch the substrate. It might be a good idea to moisten the substrate slightly under an ordinary flat stone on the substrate (away from the hot rock) in order to provide an alternate molting site.

Good luck,

Wade

 

[Mechanical-Mind]

thanks for the solid advice

once again, thanks for your help. especially wade. i'm pretty sure i'll try the slate method. i'll keep us all informed as to how it goes...

-matt

 

[SpiderFood]

M-M

I think I speak for anyone who "questioned" your intellegence that we werent trying to imply that you were a dumbass. We never know how much experience, or knowledge, any of us have until we establish ourselves on the board. I know I dont know everything or much for that matter about scorpions. Please accept my apologies for any false indications that may have been put forward on my part. Later on.

Dale

 

[Mechanical-Mind]

ahhhh. no worries. it was just weird to post about hot rocks and the first couple replies were about me using the word gizzard. heh, which does hold reference to organs. i was just trying to explain myself. now that i'm being redundant i'll stop.

-matt

 

[Kugellager]

I would not use a hot rock especially with babies...they are very susceptable to dieing for too low humidity...scorpions spend their day in burrows where it is significant'y cooler that the surface. The babies need higher humidity than the adults no matter what the species.

When I had M.martensii babies I kept 7+ in one deli cup with the inverted bottoms of 2 peat seedling cups. One I would mist every few days and the other I did not mist...this allowed them to self regulate their humidity a bit...I also only had pinholes(quite a few) in the lid of the deli cup...this kept their humidity much higher than the adults enclosure. They molted twice in this setup before I gave them away.

I would never bury a hot rock in a scorpion enclosure as scorps burrow deepr to escape the heat and woul burrow closer to the hot rock...this is the same reason you should never put a heat pad on the bottom of a scorp enclosure but do put it on the side if you use one.

John
];')

 

[Valael]

Atleast no one started the rabid "NEVER USE HEAT ROCKS!" thing.



People refused to believe me when I said they've improved. The new ones are much less likely to over heat.

 

[Kugellager]

For all practical purposes..they are just NOT practical for inverts nor are they designed for them...they still potentially get too hot...you have the cord to deal with which most scorps can climb...plus the cord has to go outside ov the snclosure at some point and scorps are well known the squeeze through very small spaces...IMO...they are not worth all the extra trouble and $$$ to use them with inverts.

John
];')

 

[Wade]

To what degree do flat rocks burrow? The few I've kept haven't shown much intrest in moving the substrate at all, especially if there's suitable rock crevices available. I haven't kept enough of them to say definatively that they don't, however. It seems possible to me that rock-dwelling scorpions may not burrow to get away from the heat as we expect most to do, instead they may simply seek refuge in a rocky crevice. If the rocky crevice is on the opposite side of the cage from the hot rock, then maybe it's OK. Just speculation!

I don't necessarily believe the hot rock is a good idea, just that it may be an idea worth experimenting with. I wouldn't buy one for this purpose, but if you have one lying around anyway, maybe. I just don't wanna be known as the guy who promotes hot rocks for scorpions. I did remember annother method for controlling the heat, using a lamp dimmer switch. I used to do this way back in the day when I still used hot rocks for herps, before I discovered the joys of flexi-watt tape.

It would probably be less risky if adults were used rather than babies. He didn't mention the size of the babies, if they're really tiny 2nd instars or something I'd be verrrry nervous about it. Has there been much success raising captive-born flat-rocks to adulthood anyway?

Wade

 

[Mechanical-Mind]

mine don't burrow at all. they show little or no fossorial behavior, and they spend nearly all of their time between, above, and below thier stones (lithophiles). i don't have a hot rock lying around but i have a good friend who works at a pet store, so i might try to get a digital one through him. perhaps even an older model. however, if i were to put rocks around the hot-rock itself, grease down the cord (petroleum jelly), and made sure it was relatively far away from her usual hide-spot i'm sure it would work fine. it would take a tremendous amount of heat to warm up even a the most modest slice of slate.

my original post was to see if i could speed up the growth rate of smaller scorpions with the use of a hot rock. No one seems to have tried it with the exception of the author of that page . but lots of people argue both ways. So, i may just give it a shot. pave-the-way so to speak.

The semi-unique problem i'm faced with now is that they eat very well with the absence of the hot-rock. overhead lamps may be as efficient as i need...but, if i do go ahead with it i won't forget to let you know what happens.

-matt

 

[Kugellager]

I was referring to scorps and inverts in general...not only flatrocks.

John
];')