Wild caught vs captive bred.

[clive 82]

Hi guys, was wondering what the general train of thought was with regard to buying/ selling wild caught stock as opposed to buying/ selling captive bred stock.
Do you think that by catching & selling wild caught specimens is a danger to the wild populations of species? Is it ethically wrong? Are there risks of introducing parasites or such with wild caught specimens?
I don't really think ive personally made my mind up yet but I'm interested to hear the opinions of others.

 

[awiec]

Without wild collecting/smuggling there would be no hobby period. Though quite a few of captive bred species in the hobby are the result of a handful of spiders being bred and lots of inbreeding goes on. while I always prefer captive bred, some species just aren't established in the hobby yet so wild caught imports are nessisary especially if a species gets lost in the hobby (like the multiple p.murinus color forms for example).

 

[14pokies]

I prefer to buy captive bred but sometimes only wild caught species are available.. I'm actually picking up an adult W/C H.albostriatum today..

I deffinately get nervous adding W/C stock to my collection because of the risk of mites disease and parasitism but usually there are no problems.. A good quarantine period is essential!

 

[Rittdk01]

If u bought from a pet store it was most likely wild caught

 

[creepa]

I prefer to buy captive bred but sometimes only wild caught species are available.. I'm actually picking up an adult W/C H.albostriatum today..

I deffinately get nervous adding W/C stock to my collection because of the risk of mites disease and parasitism but usually there are no problems.. A good quarantine period is essential!

But do you put the spider on quarantine in your house or do you consider the time spend at the sellers place enough?

 

[chanda]

That's a tough call. Personally, I prefer captive bred (when they're available) because there is less chance of parasites or other health concerns - but CB are less likely to be available in the larger sizes. Usually the available CB specimens are going to be itty-bitty slings (or very expensive). Wild caught, on the other hand, are already usually pretty good sized, which is nice when you want that "Wow!" factor display tarantula, but don't want to wait years for it to grow up. It really depends on what I'm looking for at the moment. I have both CB and WC specimens in my collection.

Ethically, I don't approve of excessive or irresponsible collection from the wild that would substantially deplete the native population, but the reality is that habitat destruction is doing far more damage to native populations than collecting for the pet trade. Some species may end up extinct in the wild, with only the captive populations in the pet trade remaining. Even for species that are not threatened in the wild, they would not be in the pet trade at all if someone hadn't started out collecting and breeding wild caught spiders.

 

[14pokies]

But do you put the spider on quarantine in your house or do you consider the time spend at the sellers place enough?

Depends on how well I know the seller.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

The real risk for T's don't come from the WC issue but from what happens on daily basis to their native environment (in general, I mean, worldwide talking, and not speaking about certain and only areas, for that some areas/regions etc are more protected than others) for that, no matter if I have the impression that the T's market is on a boost, we are talking about T's at the end, and not about lions or elephants... now those seriously are at risk, for a lot of different reasons.

Also 14pokies is right about the risk he mentioned: while nothing can happens and 9 out of 10 nothing happens, you have always that doubt with WC -- then, lol, was that cricket from LPS that infected everything

Anyway on that sense IMO genus Haplopelma are more at risk, for instance, not due to WC for the hobby market but for that 'Theraphosidae grill fest' that certain Asia nations perform. Christ it's a genocide of grilled T's u_u

 

[awiec]

I prefer to buy captive bred but sometimes only wild caught species are available.. I'm actually picking up an adult W/C H.albostriatum today..

I deffinately get nervous adding W/C stock to my collection because of the risk of mites disease and parasitism but usually there are no problems.. A good quarantine period is essential!

The risk of parasites is pretty low, I've had quite a few wc and never had an issue. I also have native spiders that live in my animal room and they never have brought anything either.

 

[14pokies]

The risk of parasites is pretty low, I've had quite a few wc and never had an issue. I also have native spiders that live in my animal room and they never have brought anything either.

I agree but why risk $1,000 T collection over a $50-$100 pick up? It doesn't put me out any keeping a new T in a different room untill I'm satisfied it's doing well..

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Another thing worth of note, who can give to others a 100% CB warranty, aside from breeders/sellers "you" know or like breeders/users here that, after posting their whole breeding process with pics and etc, start to sell the slings?

I tell you, no one. See that M.robustum that "you" want to buy from a UK seller, online? Well, can be WC.

In Italy (seems absurd considering how much of a disgraced nation Italy is) with genus Brachypelma this doesn't happens, for that since those are CITES protected, you need to have the CITES (signed by the forestry corp authorities that followed the breeding, since you need to call them) paper. Doesn't exactly happens everywhere.

 

[awiec]

I agree but why risk $1,000 T collection over a $50-$100 pick up? It doesn't put me out any keeping a new T in a different room untill I'm satisfied it's doing well..

It's not something I worry about as quite a few issues can be found when the animal is examined. Only a few things can spread around a collection and those that do can be dealt with. Only reason I see to avoid wc is if a captive bred alternative is available.

 

[14pokies]

It's not something I worry about as quite a few issues can be found when the animal is examined. Only a few things can spread around a collection and those that do can be dealt with. Only reason I see to avoid wc is if a captive bred alternative is available.

To each his own..

 

[KezyGLA]

If an area has been completely raped for capture of the species in topic then absolutely. If they are on the endangered lists then CB is the way to go... However every captive bred species has to come from somewhere, right?

What came first.. chicken or egg?

 

[viper69]

Hi guys, was wondering what the general train of thought was with regard to buying/ selling wild caught stock as opposed to buying/ selling captive bred stock.
Do you think that by catching & selling wild caught specimens is a danger to the wild populations of species? Is it ethically wrong? Are there risks of introducing parasites or such with wild caught specimens?
I don't really think ive personally made my mind up yet but I'm interested to hear the opinions of others.

I always buy CBB. The only merit to buying a WC specimen is introducing fresh genes into the gene pool for purposes of breeding. Otherwise, buying a WC specimen as a pet is simply wrong for species established in the hobby.

Are you catching and selling legally obtained Ts? It's an ethical question w/out doubt. And even if legal, what is your motive for doing so?

Also, with wild populations are you getting one or two, or are you participating in the raping of a species out of existence?

And while man's "great" ability to destroy environments is the most relevant issue, these animals don't need another pressure on their survival via collection if they are already present in the hobby.

What should be done, and is only done in a small way with some other exotics, is the captive breeding of species in their native country for exportation. Thus relieving pressure off native populations, providing incentive for local people to protect what is theirs. This has been successfully done for a few poison dart frogs among other exotics kept in the USA.

 

[clive 82]

Without wild collecting/smuggling there would be no hobby period. Though quite a few of captive bred species in the hobby are the result of a handful of spiders being bred and lots of inbreeding goes on. while I always prefer captive bred, some species just aren't established in the hobby yet so wild caught imports are nessisary especially if a species gets lost in the hobby (like the multiple p.murinus color forms for example).

Without wild collecting/smuggling there would be no hobby period. Though quite a few of captive bred species in the hobby are the result of a handful of spiders being bred and lots of inbreeding goes on. while I always prefer captive bred, some species just aren't established in the hobby yet so wild caught imports are nessisary especially if a species gets lost in the hobby (like the multiple p.murinus color forms for example).

I agree that without collecting wc specimens then for a lot of species they wouldn't be in the hobby, that's a very good point.

 

[clive 82]

I prefer to buy captive bred but sometimes only wild caught species are available.. I'm actually picking up an adult W/C H.albostriatum today..

I deffinately get nervous adding W/C stock to my collection because of the risk of mites disease and parasitism but usually there are no problems.. A good quarantine period is essential!

This would also be a concern of mine.

 

[clive 82]

If an area has been completely raped for capture of the species in topic then absolutely. If they are on the endangered lists then CB is the way to go... However every captive bred species has to come from somewhere, right?

What came first.. chicken or egg?

Most definitely agreed.

 

[Jeff23]

Raping of the population is what occurs quite often though everyone makes an excuse for themselves to get what they want.

I can't even find an Aphonopelma bicoloratum for sale in the USA (which lives wild in the USA) yet it sells for £30.00 in the UK (for example). And I have to admit that I would buy it WC (assuming I know it isn't illegal) since nobody seems to have it in stock. But in that case I would at least make effort to team up with someone for breeding to help reduce more WC T's from being taken.

 

[clive 82]

I always buy CBB. The only merit to buying a WC specimen is introducing fresh genes into the gene pool for purposes of breeding. Otherwise, buying a WC specimen as a pet is simply wrong for species established in the hobby.

Are you catching and selling legally obtained Ts? It's an ethical question w/out doubt. And even if legal, what is your motive for doing so?

Also, with wild populations are you getting one or two, or are you participating in the raping of a species out of existence?

And while man's "great" ability to destroy environments is the most relevant issue, these animals don't need another pressure on their survival via collection if they are already present in the hobby.

What should be done, and is only done in a small way with some other exotics, is the captive breeding of species in their native country for exportation. Thus relieving pressure off native populations, providing incentive for local people to protect what is theirs. This has been successfully done for a few poison dart frogs among other exotics kept in the USA.

I agree with what you say & you raise some good points. I believe some people on the forum have experienced buying a wc specimen at a really cheap price. Obviously the seller of such specimens are out to make a quick buck? Maybe not.
I hadn't really thought along the lines of buying / selling wc specimens that have been long established in the hobby & the more I think about it I cant really see a reason for doing so.