Which is better???

[Tarantulasareanimalstoo]

Still just doing research on Ts so the biggest question I have about the husbandry is, Which is better a bio active enclosure or a plain (I don’t know what else to call it) enclosure?

 

[NMTs]

Still just doing research on Ts so the biggest question I have about the husbandry is, Which is better a bio active enclosure or a plain (I don’t know what else to call it) enclosure?

If you're a beginner, simple is better. Your focus should be on the husbandry required to keep your T alive and thriving, and sometimes "bio-active" enclosures require you to maintain conditions that are right at the edge of what is healthy for your T - one small mistake one way or the other and not only does your bio-active system crash, but your T could suffer needlessly.

 

[viper69]

PLAIN

Bioactive is pure crap

 

[aprilmayjunebugs]

I prefer plain, but I suck with plants in general.

 

[Gilligan]

Plain. My T's shred plants.

 

[Dorifto]

Better? Anything that provides them ample of temp and moisture gradients, bio or not.

I much prefer "bio" (planted) setups, specially for drier climates, as they help keeping the conditions much more stable, and the cleanup crews help maintaining the enclosure free os possible pests.

Now, you will need huge enclosures with very good ventilation to provide excelent air flow and ample of gradients where the T could choose from based on it's actual needs.

For me this would be the bare minimun size for a planted setup. Those are two separated 24x18x18 tanks.



But more important than this, it will be the inhabitant. You need to choose the right inhabitant for your setup. Also you can make awesome non planted ("bio") setups, specially for real arid species.

PLAIN

Bioactive is pure crap

Snif snif

 

[A guy]

The better choice would be the one you can maintain with consistency

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

The better choice would be the one you can maintain with consistency

Yeah not many plants are going to thrive in a dark basement, so it depends on your location of the spiders and they aren’t really a big fan of external lighting being nocturnal. They aren’t really active during daytime, except a few occasionally. I could check them 30x and they still are sitting in the same spot .
plants are higher maintenance in themselves. I prefer putting them infront of a large window not a tiny basement one. Location, is big importance me using plants is a lost cause unless they require very little light .

 

[SpookySpooder]

"Plain enclosures" are better for ease of maintenance and cost to set up. It also has a much easier learning curve for beginners. The simplicity of having a plain enclosure when you have hundreds of specimens is the real draw to them.

Bioactive enclosures (when done correctly) are superior for housing a living animal. Depending on your preference, they might look better as well.

However there are nuances. One I can think of off the top of my head is the high humidity and lighting requirements needed for the plants in most bioactive set ups.

That level of light and humidity is not compatible with most Tarantulas.

Plants also require fertilizers in order to grow optimally. I would never want to add chemical fertilizers into any animals enclosure.

That said, there are species of Tarantulas that do well in bioactive enclosures.

Personally I like an inbetween of a "plain enclosure" with the aesthetic of a bioactive enclosure. Check out DavesLittleBeasties on YouTube to see what I mean.

Halfway between plain and simple, but not quite bioactive.

 

[viper69]

Bioactive enclosures (when done correctly) are superior for housing a living animal.

Not saying you are wrong or right.....

1. Define bioactive in your mind for a T only-- wi/out a definition one cannot say you are right or not, ie is bio just plants and sub to you etc...
2. Once you do the above, why are they superior in your opinion?

 

[SpookySpooder]

Just my personal opinion. It was a general statement for most hobby pets, not a direct statement toward T keeping only.

Coming from planted aquaria, I prefer the entire ecosystem over the individual.
Secondary hobbies: herps in terrariums and plants in greenhouses.

I acknowledge that most T species will not thrive in the same kind of bioactive terrarium set ups that do well for plants and herps. That is why I am not suggesting to anyone you go bioactive in your T enclosure without due diligence.

Most species won't work, but a few will. I'm thinking maybe a high humidity fossorial species like something from Asia, or a South American arboreal.

Bioactive as defined in my head:
- Organic substrate (not rocks or silicate sand) such as leaf litter composed of decomposing organics and housing a biome of microbes
- Mushrooms, isopods, or springtails to consume decaying organics
- Flora to cycle nutrients in both sub and air

Basically a little ecosystem?

Perhaps I have the wrong definition of what is a bioactive enclosure when it comes to T keeping?

Anyway in the case of T keeping I would not argue that bioactives are better for all species. I merely stated it would be superior if it worked. And I meant that moreso based on experiences with fish tanks, snakes, frogs, lizards, etc.

So to reiterate, I know bioactive is not entirely compatible with most of the T species, so you can consider my statement about it being "superior" moot in this case. It would only be if it actually worked for them.

I meant it moreso from my experience with keeping other things.

Sorry for the confusion.

Forgot to answer the 2nd part.

My opinion is that they are superior to plain enclosures because they more closely replicate a natural environment than a "plain enclosure" which can create a more comfortable environment for your animal.

However in the case with T's, they don't care as long as you provide a hide, substrate to dig, food, and water.

It's not necessary for your T to be in a bioactive to achieve good husbandry.

Bioactives also cycle nutrient waste, so leftover food waste or organic deposits such as poop can be processed without your assistance reducing the amount of maintenance needed.

However since T's produce such little waste, a weekly tweezer patrol can eliminate all sources of waste quite effectively.

Again, making a bioactive unnecessary.

Personally I find the aesthetic sense definitely superior. But that's all preference and has nothing to do with husbandry.

I should have answered from the frame of mind of keeping T's only. I read OP's question as an open ended question and that was my mistake. I answered as if he was asking a general question.

My bad.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

So to reiterate, I know bioactive is not entirely compatible with most of the T species, so you can consider my statement about it being "superior" moot in this case. It would only be if it actually worked for them..

yep
There’s gotta be another way to make their environment more natural besides adding plants right ? Do any plants even grow well in a basement with one tiny window near the Ts ? The cost of additional lighting alone wouldn’t be worth it for me, and there Ts simply will go reclusive with too much light . Probably burrow away …
I mean it would be cool if succulents or pothos can work without blinding these poor critters with additional lighting.
gotta be a way , or leave it to people with rooms with wide open windows 🪟..

 

[SpookySpooder]

IME bromeliads and epiphytes will work. These plants are incredibly low demanding when it comes to lighting and fertilizer requirements. You can grow them rooted to bark with just mist and leds or fluorescents.

The genus Tillandsia also comes to mind.

However the humidity still is an issue. You can't use any of these plants in an Arid enclosure and expect the T to thrive.

I go bioactive on every enclosure that I can, but I only have 1 bioactive Tarantula enclosure, and it's for my solo Ornithoctoninae sp. "Vietnam Silver" (Silver Earth Tiger) which doesn't mind lights because it never leaves it's burrow during the day anyway. Humidity in the natural environment is 80-99% with these spiders dealing with monsoons annually.

Is it doing any better than the OBT's I have in plain enclosures?

Not by any measure that I can observe.

If I obtained other compatible species. I would go bioactive, but as I mentioned before it's entirely unnecessary for T keeping and the benefits of all that set up and work are negligible when applied to T's.

For a herp though? Totally superior.

(lmao jk)

 

[Dorifto]

That level of light and humidity is not compatible with most Tarantulas.

In fact, it's the opposite.

Most Ts thrive at the same conditions that plants need to thrive, specially humidity. A dead or dying plant it's a very good indicator that something it's wrong inside the enclosure.

Lighting wise, even the most powerful lamp barely can achieve the same lumens that Ts get in a shadow/dark area in the nature. Now, I wouldn't nuke them with light even if they are receiving much less lumens than in the nature.

Personally I don't add any fertilizers or chemicals to the enclosure. The boluses, dead preys, decaying organic matter from the added leafs, fallen leafs... etc are enough to keep them healthy for long periods of time. You want a balanced soil, neither too rich of nutrients, or the plants will outgrow the enclosure nor too poor, or plants will die eventually.

In case you want to add some nutrients, you can make some homemade compost using worms, isopods, springtaild etc. This way you keep an spare colony of cucs and at the same time you get a rich soil to feed the plants.

There’s gotta be another way to make their environment more natural besides adding plants right ?

Using fake plants, but those won't provide or help regulating humidity.

Do any plants even grow well in a basement with one tiny window near the Ts ?

A lot will grow with indirect sunligh, some need it, as they grow under shade in the nature. Ferns are quite good too.

The cost of additional lighting alone wouldn’t be worth it for me, and there Ts simply will go reclusive with too much light

A led stripe worths nothing, even full spectrum ones. My two 120cm led lamps cost 75€ both.Ts won't get reclusive if you provide them good hiding spots, darker areas, shadows etc to ambush preys.

Mine right now, and it's "quite" bright, not as much as it looks, but bright.



The pulchra went to check the movements xD

I have to trim geniculata's enclosure, the anual triming is close xD the ficus colombia (small leaves) is covering it too much to my taste.

The homemade compost xD

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

In fact, it's the opposite.

Most Ts thrive at the same conditions that plants need to thrive, specially humidity. A dead or dying plant it's a very good indicator that something it's wrong inside the enclosure.

Lighting wise, even the most powerful lamp barely can achieve the same lumens that Ts get in a shadow/dark area in the nature. Now, I wouldn't nuke them with light even if they are receiving much less lumens than in the nature.

Personally I don't add any fertilizers or chemicals to the enclosure. The boluses, dead preys, decaying organic matter from the added leafs, fallen leafs... etc are enough to keep them healthy for long periods of time. You want a balanced soil, neither too rich of nutrients, or the plants will outgrow the enclosure nor too poor, or plants will die eventually.

In case you want to add some nutrients, you can make some homemade compost using worms, isopods, springtaild etc. This way you keep an spare colony of cucs and at the same time you get a rich soil to feed the plants.


Using fake plants, but those won't provide or help regulating humidity.

A lot will grow with indirect sunligh, some need it, as they grow under shade in the nature. Ferns are quite good too.

A led stripe worths nothing, even full spectrum ones. My two 120cm led lamps cost 75€ both.Ts won't get reclusive if you provide them good hiding spots, darker areas, shadows etc to ambush preys.

Mine right now, and it's "quite" bright, not as much as it looks, but bright.
View attachment 449331
View attachment 449330

The pulchra went to check the movements xD

I have to trim geniculata's enclosure, the anual triming is close xD the ficus colombia (small leaves) is covering it too much to my taste.

The homemade compost xD

View attachment 449332

Wow how big are those enclosures they look like something a zoo would use for frogs or something amazing?
ferns get way too large for Even my biggest tanks , anything smaller lol ?
I’ve got pothos plants , those are low light ? I’m better off not bothering with anything too big. Any soft succulents or live moss may be better. Or nothing at all , I understand it’s more natural but it’s not practical either for those who don’t have giant windows in their t rooms. Maybe in the cards when I got a larger budget but surely most keepers don’t bother with bioactive enclosures. Do you use isopods in these cages??

 

[SpookySpooder]

Most T keepers don't bother with large bioactive set ups because their collections number in the hundreds. Simply a lack of resource (time and space) in most cases.

I've noticed the bioactive enclosures tend to be done by hobbyists who also are involved in related hobbies... terrariums, aquariums, herps and the like. This is not to say pure T keepers don't do them, just not as frequently. When they do them however, they are awesome naturalistic displays for the T's inside.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Most T keepers don't bother with large bioactive set ups because their collections number in the hundreds. Simply a lack of resource (time and space) in most cases.

I've noticed the bioactive enclosures tend to be done by hobbyists who also are involved in related hobbies... terrariums, aquariums, herps and the like. This is not to say pure T keepers don't do them, just not as frequently. When they do them however, they are awesome naturalistic displays for the T's inside.

True and the last zoo I visited didn’t even have a bioactive tarantula enclosure. Although there curly hair was larger then mine lol ..

 

[Dorifto]

Wow how big are those enclosures they look like something a zoo would use for frogs or something amazing?

Two 24x18x18 enclosures put toghether.

ferns get way too large for Even my biggest tanks , anything smaller lol ?

Hawaii crespos/nephrolepis exaltata minis (bostonensis) get quite small. If not fittonias are a good option too.

I’ve got pothos plants , those are low light ? I’m better off not bothering with anything too big. Any soft succulents or live moss may be better.

Photos are another good option too, but do not place those in front of the path that the T uses for a stroll, as they tend to remove them, don't ask me why xD. Suculents are another low maintenance plants that are often used, but you have to choose the correct ones. Forget live moss, unless you have plenty of time for keeping it healthy. A much better option would be an Antrophyum plantagineum, it's a fern that carpets the floor like moss, but without having soo much maintenance issues.

Or nothing at all , I understand it’s more natural but it’s not practical either for those who don’t have giant windows in their t rooms

Fake plants, simple. If you don't have time or resources (light, ventilation...) to keep them, some fake realistic plants will do the job perfectly, but without the benefits that real plants can offer.

Do you use isopods in these cages??

Yes, several species, mostly Porcellio laevis, pruinosus, some scabers (not recomended for slings even if those ate them like popcorns, see pic below ) and Trichorhina tomentosas. Then springtails, earthworms, mini centipedes, mites, soil nematodes etc that usually came with the plants itself.

Most T keepers don't bother with large bioactive set ups because their collections number in the hundreds. Simply a lack of resource (time and space) in most cases.

Biggest issue is mostly space, but you can create awesome naturalistic setups if you organize all the items correctly. But the smaller the setup, less time you have to react if anything goes wrong, stuffy conditions etc.

Cost wise, I made my enclosures for 40 bucks in material. Then another 15-20 between the foam, tile joint mortar and the plants. Then going more elaborated, I added the misting systen for 30-40 bucks and the lighting and active ventilation for 80 bucks more.

So for 60 bucks I had two "basic" huge planted setups. Link to the tutorial. They could be iluminated with a cheap led stripe easily and watered using a misting bottle, which I still use for general watering. The misting system basically keeps the enclosure within parameters when I'm outside, not allowing my home's dry air to dry excessively my enclosures.

 

[TechnoGeek]

Still just doing research on Ts so the biggest question I have about the husbandry is, Which is better a bio active enclosure or a plain (I don’t know what else to call it) enclosure?

The answer is pretty complicated for Ts. If this was a lizard I'd say bioactive hands down, no questions asked. But tarantulas are different.

For instance, some species insists on having their own say in matter, and will attempt to redecorate their enclosure which could destroy your hard work. My G pulchra and G pulchripes are notorious for this sort of behavior, and have uprooted and killed 95% of the plants that I kept trying to grow in their enclosures. Not to mention that they love to bury their water dishes, which leaves parts of the enclosure soggy and other parts full of craters.

Finally, some plants like plenty of light to grow and tarantulas prefer to stay away from direct or bright light as it makes them feel vulnerable or exposed. You can provide multiple hides to solve this issue, but that just means they won't be out on display nearly as often.

My A geniculatas are an exception though, they don't seem to care about their decor and have never attempted to uproot plants, and just of them don't even fill their water dish with substrate (although one of them did flip and play with the water dish the first few days after being rehoused so use one that's too heavy for them to lift). My L parahybana is more or less the same.

 

[Dorifto]

For instance, some species insists on having their own say in matter, and will attempt to redecorate their enclosure which could destroy your hard work. My G pulchra and G pulchripes are notorious for this sort of behavior, and have uprooted and killed 95% of the plants that I kept trying to grow in their enclosures. Not to mention that they love to bury their water dishes, which leaves parts of the enclosure soggy and other parts full of craters.

What kind of substrate are you using?

Mine did it only is the substrate was loose enough ie usin coco fiber. Using compact substrates like clay based topsoil stopped thar behaviour inmediately. It's well known that they don't like loose substrates, probably because it causes collapses, so they remove all the loose substrate they find to prevent it, but they find themselves in a non stop story, since as soon as they remove that loose substrate, the new exposed "compact" (moister) layer starts to dry and it crumbles, starting the cycle again.