When is the right time to step in....

[Charliemum]

As most of you know a year ago exactly I picked up ab acanthoscurria geniculata from pre loved he was bought as a female but was later sexed male and as discussed on the previous thread about him he has neurological issues and has had since I got him but lately his movements apatite ect had diminished which was causing me to worry hence the last post about him. Well yesterday Humbug tried to molt. He didn't flip and moulted on his belly he got through this successfully but had fell on his back as he was moulting was clearly exhausted as he just laid there an hour 2,3 went past he was still on his back despite several attempts to flip himself bk over. 18 hours later and enough was enough I used a large desert spoon under his sub to make a mound next to him that he could use for leverage but he did nothing no reaction eventho the mound had put him on his side he did nothing so I did something you are told not todo and I used the spoon to gently push him the rest of the way on to his belly. No reaction. I think my boy has exhausted himself and may not be with us much longer 1 knee has twitched twice but nothing no reaction. As you have probably guessed by the top of the threat my question is should I have intervened sooner how soon is to soon ? I can't help but kick myself because I didn't help him sooner but everything I read on here suggests to wait at least 24/30 hours before trying to help so I waited and now I am racked with guilt incase I could have done more , he had no stuck shed he was totally free of the shed so I waited I assumed there was no danger but as previously stated Humbug has neurological issues and has never had great control of his legs so now I am second guessing myself , that I should of stepped in sooner. Maybe it would have helped...maybe it wouldn't but I have to ask how soon is to soon to step in and help if a t has neurological issues and couldn't even flip to moult in the first place . At the time of writing this I think he is still with us but barely, I will update this thread with his progress good or bad.
Humbug moulting then him on his bk then him now I have intervened
I have only put these pics in as I know others on here like to see to assess for themselves although I don't think in this situation they help I have provided them anyways because you never know someone might see something I didn't. And yes his sub is damp on the pics I had just over flowed his dish yesterday morning before he moulted . The bk half is bone dry so he can choose for himself but he has always hugged the water dish regardless.

 

[BoyFromLA]

The main reasons why people are told not to intervene are:

• Only a handful of occasions do tarantulas fail to molt successfully, tarantulas know exactly what to do
• When intervened, highly likely it is very unnecessary move or wrong judgement or mis-interpreted

Of course you would need to intervene when it’s necessary. Though it is nearly impossible for eyes of beholders to tell when to intervene.

 

[viper69]

Only 2 times in decades have I stepped in- neither due to molting.

 

[YungRasputin]

as excruciating as it feels tbh - waiting until they have molted, ensuring they have easy access to water, giving them space, etc is the absolute best thing you can do and choosing to intervene can often led to negative outcomes - it can be a stressful situation for the keeper absolutely but still

like BoyFromLA just said v rarely if ever should you intervene - in my 26+ years of keeping i have only had to intervene once with my G. rosea who had a stuck molt - nothing as extreme as the Moran vid of the Pokie but still enough to warrant intervention and luckily it was the right call that led to a positive outcome

i arrived at this decision through much debate and after a significant amount of time had passed where they should’ve been finished with the molting process - it just became increasingly evident to me that they were stuck and that if i didn’t intervene they would’ve remained so

 

[Charliemum]

Thank you all, he was free of his moult he just never flipped bk over and as yous say with a healthy t I would have left it and not intervened but Humbug isn't like other t's and has had movement issues since I got him even after he moulted last time I posted about this a week or so ago and the general consensus was he had been dropped in his head which had caused the issues he had. I watched him yesterday he was struggling alot to try n flip after 7 hours he was still on his bk but everything I read said he would correct this. I went to bed as by now it was late and I have a 5am start. When I came down at 4 coz I couldn't sleep he was still on his bk I sat for another hour debating with myself if I should flip him or not he never moved in that hour not once so I used the spoon to move him as I said in the op still no reaction, I am frightened he has exhausted himself trying to flip and I can't help but think if I had helped him earlier he wouldn't be in this situation.
He has twitched his legs since so i now have hope its all I can do now hope n wait, his dish is full and he is in the most quiet room in the house in the hope he will regain his strength.

I have only been keeping for a year I did research for a year before I got my first t but no amount of research prepares you for situations like this I can only hope with my limited experience I did the right thing.

 

[Dry Desert]

I have only been keeping for a year I did research for a year before I got my first t but no amount of research prepares you for situations like this I can only hope with my limited experience I did the right thing.

You did what you thought was the right thing to do given the circumstances.
This is how we All get through life, making decisions " on the hoof " as we see fit at the time.
Sometimes ther is no right or wrong way - does anyone live a textbook life ?
You did what you considered right given various factors.
Do Not blame yourself or feel guilty, it still may turn out okay.
As you didn't have an" ideal model " to work with who can give exact advice.
Answers on this forum are mainly people's personal opinion, some backed by scientific evidence, not many, so your opinion is no different to anyone elses.

Bottom line, you did what you thought was right in trying to save a life - good for you .

 

[Charliemum]

You did what you thought was the right thing to do given the circumstances.
This is how we All get through life, making decisions " on the hoof " as we see fit at the time.
Sometimes ther is no right or wrong way - does anyone live a textbook life ?
You did what you considered right given various factors.
Do Not blame yourself or feel guilty, it still may turn out okay.
As you didn't have an" ideal model " to work with who can give exact advice.
Answers on this forum are mainly people's personal opinion, some backed by scientific evidence, not many, so your opinion is no different to anyone elses.

Bottom line, you did what you thought was right in trying to save a life - good for you .

Thank you. I didn't know what else to do and that early in the morning there was no one to ask and threads can only tell you so much, I just hope he recovers with rest .

 

[Tentacle Toast]

Man, that is one loved spider, I can just about hear it in your voice. As heart wrenching as it is, molting spiders are like sleeping dogs, best to just leave them be. But there are extenuating circumstances with your little Humbug, & I'm hard-pressed to say I wouldn't have done the same thing as you in that situation. I think it's commendable both for your restraint in giving him time, as well ask the actions you took when "enough was enough." But that initial restraint was ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do, & gave him the time he NEEDED to try & take care of it on his own. Those eighteen anxious hours did nothing but allow for the best possible outcome, so please don't beat yourself up thinking anything should have been done sooner. You've got some very fortunate spiders in your barn, as you seem to genuinely love them.

 

[Charliemum]

Man, that is one loved spider, I can just about hear it in your voice. As heart wrenching as it is, molting spiders are like sleeping dogs, best to just leave them be. But there are extenuating circumstances with your little Humbug, & I'm hard-pressed to say I wouldn't have done the same thing as you in that situation. I think it's commendable both for your restraint in giving him time, as well ask the actions you took when "enough was enough." But that initial restraint was ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do, & gave him the time he NEEDED to try & take care of it on his own. Those eighteen anxious hours did nothing but allow for the best possible outcome, so please don't beat yourself up thinking anything should have been done sooner. You've got some very fortunate spiders in your barn, as you seem to genuinely love them.

Thank you , I do love my spiders very much,and I consider myself extremely lucky to be able to look after n share the lives of these amazing creatures, they brought a peace to my life in my lowest time ever and no matter how rubbish things get I can always watch them do their spoody thing n know at least something is right in the world.
Out of my 85 spiders Humbug is my special boy and honestly I am absolutely devastated he is in this situation. His viv is covered now he had not moved but did flinch when I put his viv in a quiet spot , I have left him alone since then and will check on him tonight I am hoping this extra time will let him rest and restore himself although I am still preparing for the worst . I will update this thread once I check on him I don't want to bug him too soon as flipping him bk over must have been terrifying for him and in his much weakened state I don't want to stress him out more than he must already be .

It helps to know that others would have done the same thing if they had a spider with issues like Humbug in the same position as him, thank you I do not feel quite so alone in this situation.

 

[Tentacle Toast]

Thank you , I do love my spiders very much,and I consider myself extremely lucky to be able to look after n share the lives of these amazing creatures, they brought a peace to my life in my lowest time ever and no matter how rubbish things get I can always watch them do their spoody thing n know at least something is right in the world.
Out of my 85 spiders Humbug is my special boy and honestly I am absolutely devastated he is in this situation. His viv is covered now he had not moved but did flinch when I put his viv in a quiet spot , I have left him alone since then and will check on him tonight I am hoping this extra time will let him rest and restore himself although I am still preparing for the worst . I will update this thread once I check on him I don't want to bug him too soon as flipping him bk over must have been terrifying for him and in his much weakened state I don't want to stress him out more than he must already be .

It helps to know that others would have done the same thing if they had a spider with issues like Humbug in the same position as him, thank you I do not feel quite so alone in this situation.

Well I'm hoping for the best for the both of you.

 

[Finikan]

Good luck to you. Sounds like a really hard situation. time will tell

 

[Charliemum]

Good luck to you. Sounds like a really hard situation. time will tell

Thank you, I have checked on him now but all I did was peek and then left him alone I didn't even pull his cover off just lifted it slightly, his legs are in a different position but he is still in the same spot . I will leave him alone now till bed time and peek again to see if he has managed to move.

 

[Charliemum]

Update
I just checked on Humbug as I am about to settle for tonight and he has moved not much but he has moved forward slightly. Pic of this morning and now
I have covered him back over and will check him in the morning and if there is any progress whatever it is I will update this post.

 

[Charliemum]

Update 2

Humbug is still with us unfortunately 2 of his legs dont seem to be straightening out but he has had a drink , still isn't moving much but looks much better than yesterday and he reacted when I touched his viv to refill his water so I have covered him back over and left him alone till tonight and I will check again before bed.

Humbug today.