When did this happen?

[Michiel]

was directed at original poster. he comes off as an arrogant jerk complaining about why his expert scorpion friends left when he did, and there are only newb asking amateur questions that aren't worth his time. don't think it was a very nice post. he could have used a much different selection of words. but he chose to be a prick. i like skinheaddave's response, especially the conclusion/closing statement.

You could also choose a different selection of words to express your subjective interpretation of the post of the OP. Complaining, yes, arrogant jerk, or prick, no. Like you, everyone here has the same right to express his point of view, within the limits of what's decent of course.

 

[redhourglass]

Hello all,

This is a good discussion with how AB and or other message boards evolved over the years. I see where KUJordan is coming from respectively.

I've been here since the beginning and before AB there were the Scorpion-Enthusiast or ScorpionFans at yahoo groups and they were very popular ! Then the groups participation slowly fell off and it seemed message boards were popping up. AB, ATS, Venom List became very common & filled in the void.

Some of the best threads (in my opinion) in the scorpion section over the last 8 years involved members like Eurypterid (Gary), Fusion121 (Oliver), Nazgul (Alex), Prymal ( Luc) and of course Eric and Dave. There are others too.

Also, I can be found through email at my site so if any one has questions more so with taxonomy and characters with North American fauna I can be reached there or just post something on AB. Always willing to help if I see appropriate to post or that hasn't been answered already.

All the best,

Sinc. Chad

 

[Michiel]

The scorpion enthousiast group of Scott Stockwell, that brings back memories! The first times I surfed on the Internet, was on the pages of these groups. I remember printing the info at campus and reading it at home.

 

[KUJordan]

my thoughts are that you seem to have a fat head. what happened is you left the new generation without any starting point. you and all your lame-ass friends.

Maybe we did leave the new generation with no starting point- but we didn't have one either. If you weren't around then, I wouldn't expect you to know what I am talking about and the "change" that has been happening.
As you can see, many here have noticed it as well. I too was a noob at one time, but for some reason I understood that it would be beneficial for me to take some initiative and contribute to the hobby- whether it be obtaining and breeding certain species of scorpions that were rarely available or if it were doing the same with Latrodectus and ensuring that my efforts would supply the hobby with them.

Turnover is not a bad thing at all, I am not suggesting that it is. I know many guys and gals have no time to contribute like in the past, and my original post was simply an observation of what has happened since. All the comments have certainly been very interesting to read. I guess I didn't expect this volume of response, but heck...if it helps to change things then I guess I can't complain.

-Jordan

 

[skinheaddave]

Maybe we did leave the new generation with no starting point- but we didn't have one either.

Even if you consider the old ranks gone -- which isn't entirely true -- we left over 8 years of archived messages and a search function. That isn't exactly nothing. Take into account things like Chad's website, Eric's website AND BOOK etc. and it isn't like the new hobbyist is left swimming in a vacuum.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Y-man]

My Opinion

I spent 13 years in the military "Army Special Operations", until a helicopter crash took me out of the business. The guys I worked with when I first joined had excellent motivation and dedication. After maybe the first 5 years I saw some of those guys leave and the ones that replaced them were a little less than what I was accustomed to. 5 years after that, I saw a lot of friends leave or die and the guys that replaced them were a little less again.

All of this made me a better leader. I had to learn how to re-motivate to a standard that we had before. I learned from the new guys stand point and put it towards my leadership style that made us all better as a whole. I also left my guys with a skills to continue what I started.

My scorpion experience. I have well over 300 scorpions and have read every good book available. I always try to do my own research, and a lot of my google searches take me to AB. There are several instances that I have gone against what a care sheet has said, but I usually set up a few different enclosures and test my theories and ideas.

I have been collecting scorpions for a while now which started in Iraq, Afghanistan and others, and I am a little disappointed with the replies to posts that are on this website. I don't see why smart comments need to be made in order to put someone down or show that "mines bigger than yours" attitude. If the post is below you, don't respond. Someone else will come along and post the info needed.

There have been several instances where I have PM'd someone instead of posting to the thread. It's easier for me to talk to someone one on one instead of competing with others with too much or too little experience.

I would never put someone down for asking a question about their first scorpion. There was a time when you had your first scorpion and you probably had questions too. So again if the post is not good enough for you to answer, don't answer. Most posts that have been talked about before can be found in the search function, but maybe instead of saying "why don't you try the search function", why not give that person with zero experience a little more respect and give him key words to search for and point them in the right direction. I've used the search feature for things before, and came up empty. Maybe that Noob is 14 and doesn't think that far ahead. Maybe with the rude comments he won't post on here again, and I don't think any of us want that.

Some people that post, I love to hear what they have to say and what they have experienced. Others, I don't know why they waste there time with comments that are neither helpful or requested. It more or less just wastes everyone's time.

I'm not trying to step on toes or say I am better than you, but there is a better way to go about things when dealing with people that have little info but want to learn. Sorry if I rambled. I quit reading this post after the OP posted it. Having 5 pages worth of replies got my attention.

Just my $.02

 

[Alakdan]

Here's my opinion on this matter. . .

Back in the day, available species for collection were somewhat limited. My collection grew slowly, each purchase or trade I make required a lot of research and consideration. Caresheets were mostly inaccurate. Therefore, I had to exert effort to learn more about them so that my time and money will not go to waste. There were some species that were being captive bred for the first time and there was so much opportunity to learn. Everyone was still so excited whenever new species are acquired.

Then the hobby boomed . . .

What used to be rare became common. Species were available left and right. Some noobs jumped the gun and just bought whole collections without taking the time to learn and appreciate each one.

In the end they have limited relevant experience aring for them, some quickly gave up and re-sold their collection.

Now there are noobs who have a lot of scorpions and just want all the answers fed to them immediately. Eventually the old timers who went through the lengthy process of learning got tired from answering all the same questions.

The noobs should slow down and appreciate their specimens. Don't rely on the care sheets and challenge the old techniques. This should revive the interest and jumpstart the culture of learning rather than just collecting.

I still see some of the old timers in this forum. Let's keep the hobby alive.

 

[Michiel]

Y-man,

That was quite motivating!

 

[KUJordan]

Ironically enough, this post and how it is evolving (from it's origninal intent, to the bickering over people's assessment of their intelligence, to the mental masturbation about having subsections to segregate people, etc.) strikes me as a prime candidate for an example of why experienced hobbyists leave or are more silent these days.

Here's another potential explanation:
- Exotic pet keeping used to be mostly in the realm of Nerd-lore
- Nerds, on average, are smarter than Non-nerds, and are generally more dedicated towards most of their pursuits
- That higher than average intelligence and dedication translates into more interesting posts on Webforums (also a medium of communication that used to be more popular in Nerd-culture)
- Exotic pet keeping is more and more popular these days so it's general demographic has expanded to include more and more Non-Nerds
.:More and more posts are less and less interesting

Genius, by the way. And I tend to feel that your evaluation is SPOT ON.

And this:

Now I try to remember not to respond to "Yo, what should I feedz my emp, prolly mealwurms", but sometimes I just can't stop myself from making a smart ass remark.

...absolutely cracked me up! It was a very inappropriate time for me to read that post because I busted out laughing!

-Jordan, the OP

 

[SNAFU]

I've been a member here a while and have never been a huge thread starter. As has been stated, I too usually just lurk & surf rather than start a thread with a question that could be answered with a couple of mouse clicks.
Search is an easy way to answer most of the repetitive questions that appear as is Google and without trying to sound snobby, I do wish more would use these functions at times. I'm sure I have asked my share of "duh" questions as an FNG.
KU, I can relate to your opinion in part but maybe thats why I branched out and joined more forums. I still love my inverts but recently have started keeping corn snakes also.
I'm not here at AB's often but you can still find intelligent post's and info here and we still have "Guru"s on board (of which i'm not one).
I've found that a low post count does not always translate to inexperience, but maybe if you keep stopping by here, you'll eventually run across some of the old timers.

 

[KUJordan]

KU, I can relate to your opinion in part but maybe thats why I branched out and joined more forums. I still love my inverts but recently have started keeping corn snakes also.
I've found that a low post count does not always translate to inexperience, but maybe if you keep stopping by here, you'll eventually run across some of the old timers.

I haven't been as active on AB as many others, you're correct, as you can see by my post count and the amount of years I've been a member here. I was actually much more involved with VL (I was an admin) and very active there. I still consider myself one of the originals (old timers) in that family of arachnoculturists. The same has happened to venomlist. AB is not the only forum to go through this, and so I have branched out a lot and was doing so with reptiles and field herping too. Herpnation (fieldherpforum) is booming right now, like never before it is hard to keep up there.

 

[H. laoticus]

Knowing the problem(s) isn't hard, but finding the solution(s) is. It seems that one of the old problems was that there wasn't enough people interested in the hobby, but things have changed in which a small collection of dedicated hobbyists has been overrun by a vast array of newcomers. Dave has pointed out that he's tried quite a few of them and unfortunately they have not worked. Let's put our efforts together in constructing new ideas (or advancing the old ones) to hopefully accommodate this growing hobby.

 

[cacoseraph]

The scorpion enthousiast group of Scott Stockwell, that brings back memories! The first times I surfed on the Internet, was on the pages of these groups. I remember printing the info at campus and reading it at home.

i still have some of my first hobby year print outs. i would print them out at work and study the hell out of them. i would spend hours scrounging for pdf's and get a rush as good (or better) as getting a new bug when i found a really useful paper. i remember searching and hoping i would be the first to post a link to an awesome paper... and then seeing ppl get excited when they saw how nice it was, too.



i... don't see that happening with too many ppl these days.

 

[Jaymz Bedell]

\ i would print them out at work and study the hell out of them. i would spend hours scrounging for pdf's and get a rush as good (or better) as getting a new bug when i found a really useful paper.

I'm glad I'm not the only person that gets a rush when I find something like that! I STILL get a rush when i find something useful on a topic I'm researching. sometimes it's a bigger rush than getting the bugs themselves to be honest. a few months ago I lucked onto a great pdf about Heterothele and was on a research high for 3 or 4 days because of it.

on to the original topic, I've been a member here on and off since 2004, I've seen it change dramatically. I always knew life happens and people would come and go. there are still a few people around from when i first signed up, and there are some newer people making great contributions to our hobby. sadly there are a lot of new people that no matter how many times they're told to research a topic don't, and then add clutter and confusion with 500 posts on the same easily researched topics. then there are the people with very little practical experience that feel the need to try and answer any question at any cost, again contributing to the clutter and confusion. along with the "you're rude!" posts that don't take into account the lack of emotion and tone that the internet brings with it. I tend to be a to the point kind of person when it comes to working with animals. maybe it's because I've worked with them for such a large part of my life, I don't really know. I'm also the kind of person that researches until I've exhausted myself and found as much information as possible. I wish more people had my research ethic, but I know it's extremely unrealistic to expect that of anyone. I've noticed a lot of the newer and younger members seem to get defensive quickly and easily over a lot of things, even those things that would be considered helpful. I've always found it better to listen to the voice of experience, and that's taken me quite a long way in any hobby I've ventured into. it seems to me we've become a fast food society, we want what we want and we want it NOW. I've been guilty of that mentality myself a few times. the internet has made massive amounts of information available at the click of a mouse/touch pad, most topics can be researched with a simple google search that takes less time than opening up a new topic window. it's a sign of the changing times, and shows how fast they are actually changing.

my biggest hope is that some of the newer hobbyists stick around and become well informed, and try to further our hobby. there will never be a shortage of new blood in this hobby, and thanks to forums like this one there will be a supply of good, relevant information around for awhile. it's just a matter of taking the time to research.

 

[telow]

ok ok no fighting guys.
anyway

when i started keeping scorps i was 6 years old and iwas lucky my parents didnt care if i kept it or not and now 27 well thats a long time
i learned all on my own i didnt have a computer untill 1999 guys

my first was a c.hentzi which my brother and i found under our house

realy i learned alot on my own and when i got a computer i learned more
but i have more posts on other sites mostly on vl but i never turned my back
im always up for questions no matter what they are even if its
(whats this white stuff on my scorp) well poop is what it is.
but i will tell them if im asked no matter what it is

i dont have alot of time to post these days my son just started school
the big K woo who haha and my daughter is in pre school now
so its tough on time but dave is right there is years of posts that can be read by anyone and should read(you may learn something new from old posts)

we are a loner hobby hahaha so we need to stick together i love scorps
and i like to see people new to them join here and other sites its a great hobby

but thats all i can say for now im off to take my back meds im gonna be messed up haha i hate those things darn pills

so lets get together and bring this hobby back to its real potential
i just hate the greed some people have (no names) but that is a hobby speed bump

 

[Canth]

Hey Jordan! And many others, long time no see! I guess I'm gonna address this since I'm kinda coming back into the swing of things lately

I started in this hobby at a really young age, I think I was 12 or 13 and my enthusiasm was almost unmatched; I had a sizable collection by the time i was 15. However High School hit me like a ton of bricks and I just kinda let it go :/ I'm 18 now and my collection is comprised of 3 tarantulas and a scorpion I honestly thought was dead for a year. (an S. mesaensis that I hadn't fed or watered in over a year popped out the other day and I tossed him a cricket, hardy little guys)

I'm a senior in HS right now and college is less than a year away, but I miss the bugs and this weekend I'm gonna go out and find some C. vittatus and S. heros ssp for old time's sake. Anyone have any spots I could hit up, that'd be great lol

Anyway, I think that it'll take a few of the old-timers out there, guys that I learned from and respected to get things back on track. Start some new projects maybe, do some write ups. Show the new guys why they started in this hobby in the first place, besides the shock factor of "I have a scorpion"

Get them to the level you feel comfortable having an intelligent discussion with.

I think that's all I've got right now

 

[Harlock]

I started out as a random newbie almost 2 years ago, and have hit a point where I've:
-Submitted my first grant proposal for a study on inverts
-Working on a survey of the distribution of some scorpions in a nearby area
-Do outreach programs with my spiders and scorpions with my college
-Work in a lab curating an invert collection and am in charge of keeping the live critters in good health
-plan on going to grad school for medical entomology

Much of my starting knowledge came from this board, and I still use it as a place to find resources even if I rarely post. You guys in the 'old guard' definitely helped set me on this path, so thanks guys, the detailed, informative posts are what made me want to learn more and more of this stuff.

In regards to what is available nowadays-it seems like a lot of new stuff is things that only come around once, and it is very rare someone manages to get a male and female, and successfully breeds them.