Whats up with Poecilotheria metallica?

[JC]

How do you "know" they are critically endangered??? You've been to India and carried out a full survey of their distribution?
Chris

This is how I "know" :

http://www.cites.org/eng/cop/11/prop/52.pdf
http://www.earthsendangered.com/search-groups2.asp?search=1&sgroup=AR
http://www.slideshare.net/Flor3ntyn/animal-extinction
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/63563/0/full
http://www.eol.org/pages/1182255
http://criticallyendangered.deviantart.com/journal/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poecilotheria_metallica

 

[ThomasH]

NO...because this is not an endemic species to the United States...the Endangered Species Act only applies to US organisms. CITES protects internationally.

Chris

Fine, CITES. Whatever, the point is that there are still parties looking to regulate endangered species such as metallica.
TBH

 

[pandinus]

Fine, CITES. Whatever, the point is that there are still parties looking to regulate endangered species such as metallica.
TBH

regulate absolutely but the regulations and enforcement of CITES protected species is a very different game altogether than the endangered species act. even the beloved Pandinus imperator is on the CITES II list. this does nothing to prevent people from having them, the act is used to regulate the flow of species. for example, accoridng to CITES only a certain percentage of the estimated population of emperor scorpions can be exported each year, etc and people caught poaching or smuggling WC specimens will be prosecuted, but this act makes no consessions on the conservation of the animal's habitat or captive breeding. So while you'd be in trouble if you were caught smuggling an endangered species internationally or poaching them from the wild, there is nothing to prevent the captive breeding and keeping of properly exported specimens.


John

 

[tony77tony77]

Thats funny because I join in early of 2006 and I got 1.5" P. Mats slings for $200 each.

When I joined this forum in early 2007 P. metallica slings were going for $400+/- and generally selling out before they were even ready to ship. Sure, there were a few here and there before that but in early 2007 they were still practically ungettable unless you had some kind of in and the price was tremendously high. If we're looking for dictionary definitions here maybe that's not "virtually unheard of" but it's still "hard as hell to get".

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

Its who you know as well people

 

[hamfoto]

This is how I "know" :

http://www.cites.org/eng/cop/11/prop/52.pdf
http://www.earthsendangered.com/search-groups2.asp?search=1&sgroup=AR
http://www.slideshare.net/Flor3ntyn/animal-extinction
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/63563/0/full
http://www.eol.org/pages/1182255
http://criticallyendangered.deviantart.com/journal/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poecilotheria_metallica

None of these websites are reliable...except for the IUCN.
First off...they are not on CITES. The proposal was rejected. Second, the IUCN list is not made by a governing agency. It's much easier to get something listed on the Red List than on CITES or the Endangered Species Act.

http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml

The IUCN listing was based off of the CITES proposal.
There has been NO peer-reviewed research on the ecology of these spiders or their loss of habitat.
Yes, we know they are losing habitat in India and Sri Lanka...that doesn't mean they are being threatened of extinction. Don't forget that these are arboreal tarantulas...that are VERY hard to find. The forest canopy is the least studied and least known biological entity that we have on Earth, less is known about the canopies and their biodiversity/ecology than the ocean floor.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be aware of potential issues of these species' habitats...but stop short in making a "sky is falling" statement.

The internet has a great variety of info out there...do some research.

Chris

 

[Moltar]

Thats funny because I join in early of 2006 and I got 1.5" P. Mats slings for $200 each.

Ok Tony, fine, whatever you say. Is there anything else totally frikking irrelevant you'd like to be right about or is it just this?

The point is that they used to be rare in captivity, now thay are not. Who gives a crap if they were $200 or $150 in early 2007? I sure don't.

 

[tony77tony77]

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Ok Tony, fine, whatever you say. Is there anything else totally frikking irrelevant you'd like to be right about or is it just this?

The point is that they used to be rare in captivity, now thay are not. Who gives a crap if they were $200 or $150 in early 2007? I sure don't.

 

[BCscorp]

hello from Canada
heres a copy/paste of an ad that went up today from a reliable breeder here.

"I have the following tarantulas for sale:
30 Gooty Sapphire Ornamental (Poecilotheria metallica) 3/4" - 1" (VERY RARE!) $150. each, 5/$650."

thats Canadian $

 

[JC]

hello from Canada
heres a copy/paste of an ad that went up today from a reliable breeder here.

"I have the following tarantulas for sale:
30 Gooty Sapphire Ornamental (Poecilotheria metallica) 3/4" - 1" (VERY RARE!) $150. each, 5/$650."

thats Canadian $

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[TiberiuSahly]

for example, accoridng to CITES only a certain percentage of the estimated population of emperor scorpions can be exported each year, etc and people caught poaching or smuggling WC specimens will be prosecuted, but this act makes no consessions on the conservation of the animal's habitat or captive breeding. So while you'd be in trouble if you were caught smuggling an endangered species internationally or poaching them from the wild, there is nothing to prevent the captive breeding and keeping of properly exported specimens.

No, because CITES only regluates the pet trade, it has nothing to do with the owners, nor the conservation of habitats, ecosistems and so on. Although CITES does obligate the trader to give the new owner informations on care and health of the animal he sells.

None of these websites are reliable...except for the IUCN.
First off...they are not on CITES. The proposal was rejected. Second, the IUCN list is not made by a governing agency.

Yes it is

It's much easier to get something listed on the Red List than on CITES or the Endangered Species Act.

http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.shtml

The IUCN listing was based off of the CITES proposal.
There has been NO peer-reviewed research on the ecology of these spiders or their loss of habitat.

That is because there are no peer-reviewed research articles to be based upon in the first place. All there is are surveys that have failed to locate the species.

Yes, we know they are losing habitat in India and Sri Lanka...that doesn't mean they are being threatened of extinction. Don't forget that these are arboreal tarantulas...that are VERY hard to find. The forest canopy is the least studied and least known biological entity that we have on Earth, less is known about the canopies and their biodiversity/ecology than the ocean floor.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be aware of potential issues of these species' habitats...but stop short in making a "sky is falling" statement.

The internet has a great variety of info out there...do some research

P. metallica is only known from India - Jharkand, West Bengal.

Molur, S., Daniel, B.A. & Siliwal, M. 2008. Poecilotheria metallica. In: IUCN 2009. IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Version 2009.1. <www.iucnredlist.org>. Downloaded on 18 July 2009 - The species is found in a single location, which is severely fragmented. The extent of occurrence is less than 100 km2. India: Andhra Pradesh: Reserve forest between Nandyal and Giddalur - I guess you can say the species is in pretty bad condition in the wild. Unless surveys manage to locate other areas where P. metallica might be present, I guess the situation is quite bad. And taking into account the fact that India is an overcrouded country which struggles desperately to feed and shelter its population, done by massive forest clearings, distruction and degradation of natural habitats, the picture looks very bad. I agree that the canopy is one of the most least known and complex ecosystems in the world, but if current activities continue at the same rate, we may never find out what organism live there, as we will already have led to their extinction before ever finding them.
Oh and the sky is falling, just as we speak. It has been falling for a few good years now.

Regards, Tibi!

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Brachypelma smithi is on the CITES list, and there was some talk about G. rosea making it to the list a few years back. The smithi is common as dirt in the hobby (usually as cbb spiderlings) That is the first example off the top of my head. As stated above, CITES does nothing to to protect the environment of the species, only collection and exportation for the pet trade.

I imagine that P. metallica will always be pricey. I remember when they first came to the US and knocked our socks off, and had 'the average joe' drooling with envy. The price has dropped 50% or so since, but still out of range for my purse. ( But I'm getting closer :drool: )

 

[hamfoto]

Tibi has made my point...hobbyist overreaction.
The sky is not falling.
The survey was made...they had a hard time finding them...they walked while trying to find a species living in the trees.
You should go and find out for yourself before making "absolute"statements. Or at least talk to someone reliable who has found them in the wild.

 

[TiberiuSahly]

It seems that the only persons that have recently found P. metallica were Molur et al. (2001). The paper appears to be still in press or if it has been published I have not seen it yet, as my main scientific interest is in the field of herpetology. I do agree that more organized and methodical researches and surveys must be made before correctly assessing a species status, but I also do agree with the decision of IUCN to consider it critically endangered because: it is only know to have a small distribution range (at least to date), it was found in highly degraded habitats, it is under pressure by anthropogenic activity. IF more populations are to be found and species reassessed, no problem, proection status can be downgraded to other category and even least concern. BUT if the species has been assessed as "critically endangered" it means that the affirmation has been made on solid ground, meaning they have some data. Remember experts always have some unpublished data for whatever reasons. Otherwise it would have been DD (data deficient).
On the other hand I am maintaining my point of view that the sky IS falling, and arachnology or any animal or plant related field makes no exception. But sincerely, I would like to hear your opinion on the subject and find out how the sky is not falling. I may be missing something here or we may not be talking about the same subject...

Regards, Tibi!

 

[dougle]

Breeding Projects

The bottom line is it appears that we as hobbyist who adore this T

should start breeding projects so that we can keep enjoying it and make a

decent profit as well , and maybe some of you who are very concerned

about the T in its natural habitat can work to reinterduce it .