What if MM g. Pulchra and MF g. Pulchripes cross breeds?

EulersK

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Besides, is this the best solution anyone can come up with? Are hybrids so terrible that their very existence negates any possibility of them being able to live their lives out? Is there no one out there that would take them to raise just because they value life? Is the wholesale killing of entire batches of babies the best idea we've come up with? That is a sad commentary in and of itself.
Unfortunately, @Ungoliant beat me to it. The lifespan on these spiders almost guarantees that more than one person will own them throughout their lifetime. It doesn't even have to be a long shot - breed a B. albopilosum and a B. emilia. Suddenly you've got 1000+ slings, and you need to sell them off. Will you sell to only the most responsible keepers? No, you'll sell them to anyone with green money. As is obvious by threads on this forum, people think that species and breeds are the same thing. Eventually you've got a novice keeper with a B. albopilosum/emilia mature male. What do you think they'll be labeled as - a completely worthless hybrid, a nearly worthless albo, or a $300 emilia?
 

Ungoliant

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Suddenly you've got 1000+ slings, and you need to sell them off. Will you sell to only the most responsible keepers? No, you'll sell them to anyone with green money.
Even if you do everything you can to make sure your hybrid slings are only sold or given to responsible, honest keepers, it's out of your hands from then on. There is no guarantee that the new owners will take those same precautions when some of the tarantulas are inevitably sold or rehomed.

Theoretically, I am not opposed to giving a hybrid a good home on the condition that it's never bred or transferred. But even if you intend to own a hybrid for its whole life and never breed it, unexpected things can happen to you that result in someone else rehoming your hybrid to someone who doesn't know or care not to breed it.
 

mack1855

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That doesn't make it sound better. In fact that makes it sound worse.
Culling is a standard procedure in many animal husbandry lines,Koi,freshwater fish,even higher vertebrates.
But,to preserve the animal as it is in nature is a very important issue.No one likes the idea of euthanizing T,s.But
in the end,its the fault of the breeder,or hobbyist who dosent care,that bears the reponsibility.

In Japan,Koi are culled by the thousands,to eliminate undesirable traits.I have no issues with the humane disposal
of hybrid slings.And since many T,s,regardless of genus or species are in danger of disappearing in the natural world
its an issue we need to confront.
 

gypsy cola

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Anyone heard of a homunculus? Crazy interesting stuff. Some dude bred with a chicken egg. Fake but creepy and interesting to think about.

For hybrids I am going to say no. Don't do it. Period. Why? Things are already confusing enough. If its not natural, don't do it.
 

ChrisTy

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I know that the ultimate goal for a lot of people in the hobby is to A) breed your own species or B) Lend out your individuals for breeding rights. This is a continuously talked about subject, so much so that many people new to the hobby are also attempting to breed. This leads me to question breeding practices in this hobby. I worked with a breeding project for Staffordshire terriers and there were constant testing of bloodlines, dna, personal traits, etc.. Is this common practice in the breeding world of Ts? Are there enough reputable breeders out there doing testing and verifying exactly what it is they are breeding? I know I have not received paperwork with my Ts to prove and ancestral lines or even that mine are "pure" in the slightest. I would think that with how strong people's opinions can become on this subject this should be more common than I am aware of. Does anyone who breeds on this thread have personal experience with this?
 

Jeff23

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I know that the ultimate goal for a lot of people in the hobby is to A) breed your own species or B) Lend out your individuals for breeding rights. This is a continuously talked about subject, so much so that many people new to the hobby are also attempting to breed. This leads me to question breeding practices in this hobby. I worked with a breeding project for Staffordshire terriers and there were constant testing of bloodlines, dna, personal traits, etc.. Is this common practice in the breeding world of Ts? Are there enough reputable breeders out there doing testing and verifying exactly what it is they are breeding? I know I have not received paperwork with my Ts to prove and ancestral lines or even that mine are "pure" in the slightest. I would think that with how strong people's opinions can become on this subject this should be more common than I am aware of. Does anyone who breeds on this thread have personal experience with this?
I don't think testing can be done for tarantulas like dogs and cats. There are experts who can tell very quickly that a tarantula is a mutt based on the body shape, hair, and colors, but it can be much harder when the spider is still in sling stage. And some importers and pet shops muddy up the process with too little knowledge about the source of their T's. If someone offers you a MM or MF to pair with your T you have to know the characteristics of what you are getting and trust this individual as a source.
 
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ChrisTy

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I don't think testing can be done for tarantulas like dogs and cats. There are experts who can tell very quickly that a tarantula is a mutt based on the body shape, hair, and colors, but it can be much harder when the spider is still in sling stage. And some importers and pet shops muddy up the process with too little knowledge about the source of their T's. If someone offers you a MM or MF to pair with your T you have to know the characteristics what you are getting and trust this individual as a source.
I figured it would be way different than what I have experienced. I'm really curious as to how many people breeding, are educated in what to look for. I am not interested in breeding myself, but am just curious of how many species in the hobby are "muddied" more than we may all be aware of. Until this thread I didn't know that B. vagans were muddied at all and now I question what a real one should look like...
 

Ungoliant

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Are there enough reputable breeders out there doing testing and verifying exactly what it is they are breeding? I know I have not received paperwork with my Ts to prove and ancestral lines or even that mine are "pure" in the slightest.
While reputable, responsible breeders will try to avoid inbreeding or hybridizing, AFAIK, it is not common practice to keep records on tarantula lineages. (This is one of the reasons cited by conservationists against using captive-bred populations in conservation.)

Since there is no genetic testing available to assess tarantula bloodlines, it would be a good development for the hobby if breeders starting keeping lineage records.
 

Walker253

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Wow, somebody compared killing a sac of mutt slings to Hitler killing millions of Jewish people in the 30's and 40's.
Anybody reading this board knows how I feel about hybridization. The last time I posted about it, I was a called a troll by a sympathizer.
Bottom line, you will never be able to control the offspring and their future once they leave your possession. Stop kidding yourself.
Killing Jews, Good Gawd...
 

Andrea82

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I figured it would be way different than what I have experienced. I'm really curious as to how many people breeding, are educated in what to look for. I am not interested in breeding myself, but am just curious of how many species in the hobby are "muddied" more than we may all be aware of. Until this thread I didn't know that B. vagans were muddied at all and now I question what a real one should look like...
There are ways to know what species a T is, by looking at the reproductive organs. Spermatheca and emboli look different between one species to another. But this also means that breeders have to wait until they have a molt from said T, and also that breeders have to know what to look for.
 

Walker253

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Wow, somebody compared killing a sac of mutt slings to Hitler killing millions of Jewish people in the 30's and 40's.
Anybody reading this board knows how I feel about hybridization. The last time I posted about it, I was a called a troll by a sympathizer.
Bottom line, you will never be able to control the offspring and their future once they leave your possession. Stop kidding yourself.
Killing Jews, Good Gawd...
Of course someone disagrees. I expected it. My only request is to at least have the courage to post why you disagree or dislike. I can respect that.
 

Andrea82

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Anyone else notices how OP never posted again....we've been trolled people. I dare say the troll got a good run for his money with people exploding in here...
 

EulersK

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Anyone else notices how OP never posted again....we've been trolled people. I dare say the troll got a good run for his money with people exploding in here...
We've actually gotten a good influx of trolls lately. When it rains it pours, apparently.
 

Python

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I'm not saying that people should crossbreed. I just thought that some of the statements sounded a bit... not sure how to say it... barbaric. Wanting pure bloodlines is something that I would want also, I just think that if a newcomer comes in and sees some of these statements they might be put off. I'm just thinking that there are better ways to say things, that's all. There are plenty of people here that have raised the slowest of growers from birth to old age so I know there are people that wouldn't mind taking some in to keep them out of irresponsible hands. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify, I'm not an advocate of crossbreeding, but let's try to sound a little more compassionate for the creatures that didn't have a choice in the matter.
 

REEFSPIDER

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I'm not saying that people should crossbreed. I just thought that some of the statements sounded a bit... not sure how to say it... barbaric. Wanting pure bloodlines is something that I would want also, I just think that if a newcomer comes in and sees some of these statements they might be put off. I'm just thinking that there are better ways to say things, that's all. There are plenty of people here that have raised the slowest of growers from birth to old age so I know there are people that wouldn't mind taking some in to keep them out of irresponsible hands. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify, I'm not an advocate of crossbreeding, but let's try to sound a little more compassionate for the creatures that didn't have a choice in the matter.
You keep implying they are owed some kind of rights. They are spiders remember, and we all love them and this hobby enough to cull hybrids if needed. Your continuing to shoot a dead horse by saying people have raised slow growers to adulthood because you cannot control the outcomes of each hobbyists life. That being said 10-20 years from now someone could end up with a hybrid, someone could just lose interest in the hobby, they could be arrested and jailed, or worse case scenario a hobbyist could die, in these situations a collection goes where if no family has an interest in keeping Ts? Probably to the first person they can find to take them. These are just some possible ways hybrids can be spread unknowingly. In a perfect world we could all breed hybrid and keep our own dream crosses but i donot put that much faith or trust in mankind. People will do things that are dishonest in order to gain something.
 

Moakmeister

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The offspring would be a mix of two species and therefore infertile. It could have a lot of deformities due to impure DNA. Cross-breeding species basically means that you are denying the offspring their ability to have a normal life. Nothing about them is normal. Also, a G. pulchripes and G. pulchra wouldn't breed anyway. The female would just eat the male because it's a different species and tarantulas prey on other tarantulas.
 
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