Wet Bulb + SADS

YungRasputin

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so I was reading an article recently which discussed the wet bulb phenomena (in a nutshell, when temperatures and humidity rise to such a point that can’t support life) as it pertains to humans and it got me thinking about SADS or “Sudden Avic Death Syndrome” and I’m wondering, has this (Wet Bulb) ever been brought up when discussing SADS?

because from what people describe, (über hot, über wet + stagnant) - it to me sounds like maybe this could be the case? i think it would be interesting to catalog new SADS posts and see what the temp/humidity levels were - in time, perhaps through collective consensus we could determine what would be the “wet bulb” threshold for T’s which could help prevent SADS from happening

thoughts? and this could extend to other species other than Avics, like, I’ve read some care sheets on Asian fossorials that proposed preposterous humidity levels when humidity itself is literally the amount of water vapor in air which one would assume would be dramatically lower the deeper you are, you know, underground - which is probably why said species evolved to be fossorial in the first place
 
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Dorifto

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"SADS" resume:

Dry environment and bone dry enclosure="SADS"
High moisture/humidity and lack of ventilation="SADS"
 
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YungRasputin

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SADs resume:

Dry enviroment and bone dry enclosure=SAD
this would, i would say, be more aligned with dehydration rather than wet bulb; i was mainly talking about people who followed old care sheets and kept things über wet, über hot and poorly ventilated

High moisture/humidity and lack of ventilation=SAD.
see above, and this is precisely what I’m saying; the dew point, humidity, intensified by poor ventilation and high heat could produce this phenomena imo
 

Dorifto

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If to a poorly ventilated enclosure you ad humidity and heat you will get a little sauna. And there is no finnish tarantula 😂😂😂
 

Arachnid Addicted

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SADS is a myth.
There are no such thing as "sudden death syndrome".
Truth be told, it is nothing more than poor husbandry.
Someday, someone invented that term, and the myth that Avicularia spp., die out of nowhere wrongly (and fastly) spread, unfortunately.
 

Dorifto

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SADS is a myth.
There are no such thing as "sudden death syndrome".
Truth be told, it is nothing more than poor husbandry.
Someday, someone invented that term, and the myth that Avicularia spp., die out of nowhere wrongly (and fastly) spread, unfortunately.
I believe that you didn't catched the point of the thread, We were talking just about that, the poor husbandry.
 

Malum Argenteum

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It is a well-known fact that both temperature relative humidity outside of tolerable ranges either alone or in combination with each other cause captive animals of any species to die (in fact, if you read that sentence, you may notice that it is a tautology). There's no need to propose a "phenomenon" any more than there is need to propose a "syndrome".

Yes, higher humidity makes higher temps harder for animals (and plants, FWIW) to tolerate. That's not really novel.
 

kingshockey

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perhaps through collective consensus we could determine what would be the “wet bulb” threshold for T’s which could help prevent SADS from happening . i think that would cause more t deaths from new keepers trying to micro manage temp/humidity numbers not to mention how many ts would need to die in finding that threshold. i dunno about you but i am not gonna volunteer any of my ts much less buy ts as trest subjects to find those numbers
 

Dorifto

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perhaps through collective consensus we could determine what would be the “wet bulb” threshold for T’s which could help prevent SADS from happening . i think that would cause more t deaths from new keepers trying to micro manage temp/humidity numbers not to mention how many ts would need to die in finding that threshold. i dunno about you but i am not gonna volunteer any of my ts much less buy ts as trest subjects to find those numbers
Their threshold is their habitat, once you put then in a different value than their habitat ones, undessired things could happen.
 

YungRasputin

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perhaps through collective consensus we could determine what would be the “wet bulb” threshold for T’s which could help prevent SADS from happening . i think that would cause more t deaths from new keepers trying to micro manage temp/humidity numbers not to mention how many ts would need to die in finding that threshold. i dunno about you but i am not gonna volunteer any of my ts much less buy ts as trest subjects to find those numbers
that’s not what i’m saying and tbh idk how you got that out of my post - what i was suggesting however was to catalog SADS posts in one thread and ask the posters what were the conditions within the enclosure, overtime, a threshold could be established; such things would happen anyway so why not learn from it collectively - I’m 100% not suggesting people alter the environmental conditions of their specimen’s enclosures to determine this

and, these kind of responses read to me like trying to take care of fish without caring about water parameters because you “know better” - it’s not that complicated of a thing
 

kingshockey

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i got that impression off your first post i wouldnt have misunderstood or gotten the impression you wanted to try some kinda study had you worded things like in your reply
 

The Grym Reaper

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The temps are largely irrelevant, it's a combination of excessive moisture and restricted ventilation that causes Aviculariinae to die, doesn't really matter if you're keeping them at 20°C or 28°C.

I believe that you didn't catched the point of the thread, We were talking just about that, the poor husbandry.
People need to stop using the term though, SADS doesn't exist and that should be pointed out every time it is mentioned, it comes from a time where people liked to invent nonsensical syndromes and accompanying acronyms for easily explainable things.
 

Dorifto

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The temps are largely irrelevant, it's a combination of excessive moisture and restricted ventilation that causes Aviculariinae to die, doesn't really matter if you're keeping them at 20°C or 28°C.



People need to stop using the term though, SADS doesn't exist and that should be pointed out every time it is mentioned, it comes from a time where people liked to invent nonsensical syndromes and accompanying acronyms for easily explainable things.
True, I shouldn't use SADS without " " 😂😂😂

Solved 😂😂😂
 

viper69

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I get what you mean- honestly believe from reading here that “99.9%” of containers are too wet inside with poor ventilation. Nothing to do with heat.
 

YungRasputin

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The temps are largely irrelevant, it's a combination of excessive moisture and restricted ventilation that causes Aviculariinae to die, doesn't really matter if you're keeping them at 20°C or 28°C.
why would heat be irrelevant when a) heat effects humidity - increase in air temperature allows for more water molecules to be present in the air thereby exacerbating excess air moisture and its effects on fauna and b) spiders natural behavior is to avoid excess heat either by tunneling several meters underground or by creating web hides high up in the trees to better access cooling winds

I’m not trying to be belligerently contrary here mind you, I just feel that temperature is absolutely relevant

People need to stop using the term though, SADS doesn't exist and that should be pointed out every time it is mentioned, it comes from a time where people liked to invent nonsensical syndromes and accompanying acronyms for easily explainable things.
“SADS” does exist tho - does it exist as a naturally occurring phenomena in the wild? no, is it some sort of biological reality particular to the species physiology? no, is it an artificial phenomena specific to captivity and caused by human error? yes, and it’s in that sense that i recognize it’s existence and don’t see why anyone would deny this considering, obviously, given the fact that we are discussing it would naturally lead one to conclude that it does indeed exist

it’s just like ‘zoochosis’ isn’t something which is a naturally occurring thing and is, explicitly, something specific to captivity, and human-animal husbandry - this however, doesn’t mean it “doesn’t exist”
 

The Grym Reaper

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why would heat be irrelevant
Because, like I said, it doesn't matter if your enclosure is kept at 20°C or 28°C, if it's too moist (usually via excessive misting) and there isn't enough ventilation then the Avic will die regardless.

SADS” does exist tho
No, it doesn't, at best it's a misnomer. A syndrome is a collection of symptoms with no known cause, what people call "Sudden Avic Death Syndrome" is just the Avic dying (one symptom) due to improper husbandry (known cause).
 

Malum Argenteum

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heat effects humidity - increase in air temperature allows for more water molecules to be present in the air
Uh, actually raising the temp affects the relative humidity by lowering it at a given moisture content. Trying to make this all more complicated than it is only leads to error, as we see here.

spiders natural behavior is to avoid excess heat either by tunneling several meters underground or by creating web hides high up in the trees to better access cooling winds
Do Avics do either of these things in captivity (the thing we're talking about, right? Captive husbandry?)? I'd love to see a photo of these meters-long tunnels or high-up-in-trees winds in an Avic enclosure.
 

YungRasputin

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Uh, actually raising the temp affects the relative humidity by lowering it at a given moisture content.
not really sure what you’re getting at

Trying to make this all more complicated than it is only leads to error, as we see here.
I find this constant refrain on this forum of “over-complication” to be both inane and annoying - nothing i have said is “over-complicated” considering all someone would have do to measure these things is crank their neck and check the temp/humidity gauges; that’s it! that’s literally it, how is that “over-complicated”?

how is trying to figure out the science behind this whole thing, on a discussion board, specifically designed for discussing such things, a bad thing?

it’s like every time i make a thread like this people get pissy and act like an it’s a fundamental insult to their husbandry/care of whatever because I’m talking about something outside the realm of “there’s just dirt and sticks and spider”

this is literally like claiming that water parameters is an over-complication of fish keeping because all you need is “water and fish” instead of seeing it as beneficial knowledge which informs better keeping

Do Avics do either of these things in captivity (the thing we're talking about, right? Captive husbandry?)?
no and that’s my point, they don’t have these and are reliant on our care to provide a proper, artificial environment
 

Matt Man

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I believe that you didn't catched the point of the thread, We were talking just about that, the poor husbandry.
which was your original point, that many seemed to miss

Deaths from both ends of the temp / humidity spectrum being rooted to the same cause means it's mythic
 

8 legged

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Avics really just suffer from "OCBAAFTIS"!
Oh crap, bought an animal, forgot to inform - Syndom!
 
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