No. As long as the sub is moist and the spider is hydrated internally the humidity could be 0%.So, you admit that the relative humidity plays a role in how the air can take moisture from the exuvia during molting process?
I can keep it drier if you want,
I'll look like a raisin, with a raspy voice, and a skin falling in pieces If the humidity was zero, it would take the moisture from both, substrate and exuvia too quickly, and much quicker depending on factors like ventilation and heat.
Very simple question: Do people in Southern California, Arizona, Nevada need humidifiers to keep tropical species? If the answer is NO (which it is). Then air humidity does NOT matter. Moist substrate BARELY raises the relative humidity in well ventilated enclosures by such a little % it is not enough to have an effect. 10% or so without moist sub to 25% or so with it.I can keep it drier if you want,
People have kept every species in those states. From sling to adult. Millions of spiders. Just as successful as in any other part of the world. The conditions are IDEAL because only the moisture in the soil matters. Not what your hygrometer reads.
People do really stupid things from the beginnings of the humanity. 50 years ago people believed that dogs did not have any kind of feelings. Few years ago, Ts were keeped in poorly setup deli cups, or boxes, because "they live in holes". I'm pretty sure that in the near future some things will change.People have kept every species in those states. From sling to adult. Millions of spiders. Just as successful as in any other part of the world. The conditions are IDEAL because only the moisture in the soil matters. Not what your hygrometer reads.
Again.....if it DID matter....people in those states would ALL have humidifiers if the conditions were so BAD or "not optimal". But people have been on the hobby there for 20,30+ years with great results. There is simply no need. A humidifier costs less then $100..dont you think people would have realized a bunch of abnormal bad molts and stuff if humidity mattered? LOL
They trust their precious, priceless, expensive collections and won't fork over a $100 bill for ideal conditions?!
Almost nobody arguments... Everybody loves lollipopsThis seems like a debate that originated from another thread and this poll is here to prove who is right and who is wrong. Doesn't seem like much of a discussion, rather an argument between 2 individuals.
I am going to vote Lollipop, but by all means my popcorn is next to me, please continue
I consider S American tropical rainforests to be quite humid, certainly not dry heat there
My thoughts, backed up by more or less scientific arguments, are here - MYTHS: RELATIVE HUMIDITY.
Hi Stan! Very nice seeing you! You've done a great good to many people here. This message is fan mail. To be on topic: I appreciate all of your points on humidity too!
Quite possibly the greatest mind in Tarantula keeping. Honored by your presence, but not nearly surprised with your answer!
Big thanks Stan!!!
I realize these questions were not directed toward me, but I will respond anyways.Big thanks Stan!!!
I read your article some years ago just before starting in this hobby and it was very useful to me!
So do you believe that there is a possibility that WC Ts you call them swamp dwellers that fail molting etc could be due to not to have the same humidity levels as in their habitats? Because that's interesting point that could help some people.
Also being more specific, what do you think about taking those species to completely dry enviroments like SoCal, Arizona... etc where thr humidity is extremely low compared to their habitats. Do you believe that they could need a special attention in this section?
Thanks!!!
Thanks AphonopelmaTX!!I realize these questions were not directed toward me, but I will respond anyways.
It stands to reason that any tarantula that evolved in a perpetually damp environment such as a rain forest would not have developed a means to retain water as well as the species from drier, more xeric environments. High humidity slows down the rate of evaporation of water from within an organism. If a tarantula does not develop an adaptation to dry environments, then the rate of which water evaporates from their bodies will be dangerously high causing desiccation. The same principle applies to humans which can suffer heat exhaustion much faster in a high heat/ high humidity environment. Since our bodies cool by the process of sweat evaporating from the surface of our skin, anything that slows down that evaporation is a severe danger to our health.
In captivity, tarantulas from rain forests need to have their enclosures setup with damp substrate due to that lack of adaption to dry conditions. Of course, some tropical species seem to be better at adapting to dry conditions than others. Keeping and raising all three species of Theraphosa myself, which are known to be particularly sensitive to perpetually dry conditions, I can say that the humidity doesn't make much of a difference but rather they need to be in contact with damp substrate to be comfortable. Prolonged exposure to dry substrate will cause physical distress which manifests in huddling in their hide, reluctance to eat, chronic pacing or climbing, and/ or standing over their water dish. The reason for this is debatable and needs research. I believe one hypothesis is that rain forest species do not have as thick of an exo or epi cuticle as species from xeric environments which serves to prevent water loss. A recent study on evaportive water loss in a tarantula species showed that the majority of water loss occurred from the book lungs. However, that study did not use a tropical species of tarantula nor did it make any comparisons with such. However, my own observations of Theraphosa species in captivity show that the their undersides need to be in close proximity to humid air to be comfortable since they have shown signs of physical distress even if the humidity in their enclosure was high (>50%) but the substrate dry. Whether that is because their book lungs need to be exposed to humid air or Theraphosa species lose water from their presumably thin cuticle, or maybe both, is unknown.
In the tarantula keeping community, there is too much emphasis on humidity in itself when the level of moisture in the substrate that is of key concern. Higher levels of water in the substrate is naturally going to raise the humidity in their enclosure as the water evaporates, but their bodies are in direct contact with the substrate so the humidity is of no real concern. In other words, the concern should be more focused on how much water they are resting on, not how much water is in the air several inches, or feet, above their heads.
Thank you! Exactly what ive said time and time again. All that matters is the sub moisture and not the air humidity. The air humidity only effects how often you need to dampen the sub.I realize these questions were not directed toward me, but I will respond anyways.
It stands to reason that any tarantula that evolved in a perpetually damp environment such as a rain forest would not have developed a means to retain water as well as the species from drier, more xeric environments. High humidity slows down the rate of evaporation of water from within an organism. If a tarantula does not develop an adaptation to dry environments, then the rate of which water evaporates from their bodies will be dangerously high causing desiccation. The same principle applies to humans which can suffer heat exhaustion much faster in a high heat/ high humidity environment. Since our bodies cool by the process of sweat evaporating from the surface of our skin, anything that slows down that evaporation is a severe danger to our health.
In captivity, tarantulas from rain forests need to have their enclosures setup with damp substrate due to that lack of adaption to dry conditions. Of course, some tropical species seem to be better at adapting to dry conditions than others. Keeping and raising all three species of Theraphosa myself, which are known to be particularly sensitive to perpetually dry conditions, I can say that the humidity doesn't make much of a difference but rather they need to be in contact with damp substrate to be comfortable. Prolonged exposure to dry substrate will cause physical distress which manifests in huddling in their hide, reluctance to eat, chronic pacing or climbing, and/ or standing over their water dish. The reason for this is debatable and needs research. I believe one hypothesis is that rain forest species do not have as thick of an exo or epi cuticle as species from xeric environments which serves to prevent water loss. A recent study on evaportive water loss in a tarantula species showed that the majority of water loss occurred from the book lungs. However, that study did not use a tropical species of tarantula nor did it make any comparisons with such. However, my own observations of Theraphosa species in captivity show that the their undersides need to be in close proximity to humid air to be comfortable since they have shown signs of physical distress even if the humidity in their enclosure was high (>50%) but the substrate dry. Whether that is because their book lungs need to be exposed to humid air or Theraphosa species lose water from their presumably thin cuticle, or maybe both, is unknown.
In the tarantula keeping community, there is too much emphasis on humidity in itself when the level of moisture in the substrate that is of key concern. Higher levels of water in the substrate is naturally going to raise the humidity in their enclosure as the water evaporates, but their bodies are in direct contact with the substrate so the humidity is of no real concern. In other words, the concern should be more focused on how much water they are resting on, not how much water is in the air several inches, or feet, above their heads.
So to answer the main question of whether a "swamp dweller" taken from their native tropical ecosystems and putting them in a state like Arizona or California, which is dry, will need special attention... Yes, they will most certainly need special attention! That special attention will be on making sure the substrate in their enclosures are consistently damp enough to make them comfortable and to decrease ventilation enough to where the rate of evaporation is as low as possible to keep from having to water it all the time. One who keeps a "swamp dweller" will need to be pay attention to signs of distress as well to make sure they are keeping up with proper husbandry.
This has only just begun...
do they benefit from the air´s humidity in dry enviroments? The substrate dampness is the key, but does it help? This and much more today in AB,... do not miss it... It will depend on where you live and outside´s relative humidity hahahahahaha
Almost no such thing as too much ventilation, when done properly, in my opinion.
Oh brilliantThis has only just begun...
What about the tropical arboreals that don´t live in the damp substrate eh eh eh!!
It will depend on where you live and outside´s relative humidity hahahahahaha
