Want to buy

[PapaSmurf]

I'd like to see more also! very nice X.immanis Steve!

 

[Tony]

Hey Steve (post #21)

Is that specimen sexed? I haven't been able to get a good read on mine, it looks male and has that pinkish color extending onto the femurs too. I have heard that the coloration like that could indicate male so I am hoping you've sexed yours as Female...
Tony

 

[MizM]

Nobody said Todd didn't have a right to defend his "character" or business but considering he has an interest(money) his statements also lack impartial credibility as it pertains to the specific subject at hand, IMO. I don't agree his rights extend to TELLING a consumer not to listen to another source(who has no vested monetary interest) when the customer is deciding to make an expensive purchase or not. I'd like to see or hear some actual proof to substantiate his claims instead of making paranoid accusations that other people and businesses are trying to sabotage him all the time.

Then the "Dealer Reviews" is where you should be looking. There, you will find everyone's first-hand experience with Todd and you can make an educated opinion based on a large group of feedback! If he's a dishonest dealer, you KNOW he would be slammed repeatedly and loudly... us Arachnopeople are quite honest you know!

 

[Martin H.]

Hi,

anyhow, really nobody here who bought some of these slings and can/will share photos?

John, what about the sling you got from Todd. How big is it now? Any photos?

all the best,
Martin

 

[LaRiz]

John, what about the sling you got from Todd. How big is it now? Any photos?

As a matter of fact, Martin, I just took some pics. She molted two days ago, and is about 4" now. I call her my Xenethis sp. "whitish-blue" Or, would it be more accurate calling her my Xenethis sp. "bluish-white" :?
john

 

[xenesthis]

Martin,

Back at it again, heh? How many hundreds of hours now have you spend on this subject? Give it up. They were sold from Ferry & Dirk in Europe as Xenesthis sp. "blau". Sorry, nah I'm not sorry but I changed that common name to an English one "Amazonian Giant Powder Blue". You don't like it - tough! That doesn't mean that it's not the Xenesthis sp. "blau".

Man, get a life dude. You've been at this now for sometime. It's getting a little weird this obsession that you have.

Xenesthis sp. "blau" = "Amazonian Giant Powder Blue"

That's it. That's all. You little discredit campaign isn't working. It shows what you are trying to do. John's pic shows a light blue-femured Xenesthis sp. Huh? Blue legs - yep, that's it. Now, give it a rest and go obsess over something else for another few hundreds hours.

I'll have a nice professional pic posted in the next month of a sub-adult female for you to eat on as well. Served up with a smile!

Todd

 

[-=}GA']['OR{=-]

Sweeeet!! Hey Todd,I'll be sure to post a pic of my girl when she gets a little bigger.I am starting to see a nice blue tinge on her as well.

Brian

 

[Deliverme314]

I think you guys should put on those oversize inflatable boxing gloves... you know the ones that are like beach balls... and have it out!

I dont see what the big deal is. You "nicknamed" it a name that Americans would understand in order to market it... there is nothing wrong with that at all. You never tried to call it a scientific species name that isnt... so what if you coined your own common name?

 

[Vys]

I think the controversy is that he is trying to say this is a separate species. Don't think Martin, or anyone, cares what 'common' name he gives them. By mr. Gearhearts way of expressing himself, it isn't that far fetched to believe he could stir things up

 

[Martin H.]

Hi John,

As a matter of fact, Martin, I just took some pics. She molted two days ago, and is about 4" now. I call her my Xenethis sp. "whitish-blue" Or, would it be more accurate calling her my Xenethis sp. "bluish-white" :?

John, thanks for the photo. Of course you can call it whatever you want, you know common names doesn't care and everyone is free to use any common name he wants to use, but has far as I can see (unfortunately the 'carapace' is a bit disguised by the legs – explanation see below) that is the species which is called here in Germany Xenesthis sp. "weiß" (weiß = white) and which has been sold unter this name by Ferry and Dirk.
First when I saw your photo I was a bit "shocked" and BIG surprised that it is as blue, I didn't expect any blue on your specimen/photo, but after a closer look and a phone call with Ferry (one of my Xenesthis experts) to get his opinion on that and your part "She molted two days ago" I am 99% sure (1% as exit =;-) it is the one I know as Xenesthis sp. "weiß", even I have never seen one with an as blue lustre. But you know as well as I do, that dark (blakish) specimens photographed short after the ecdysis (= molt), with a digital camera and the right light (especially when you use a bright flash) will turn out very bluish. Anyone needs some examples for this statement?
here is three times the same specimen, a Haplopelma cf. schmidti:
some days after the molt a bit bluish: >>click here<< (photo taken without flash, with flash it would be even brighter!)
some weeks later: >>click here<<
some month later: >>click here<<

Especially the femur, which is in a lot of species very dark to blakish, has short after the ecdysis a bluish tint. See for example this Chilobrachys fimbriatus >>click here<< and another C. fimbriatus whos last molt has been longer ago >>click here<< (both photo taken without flash)
Or see this Grammostola rosea >>click here<< ... fresh molted, "right" light, "right" angle and you will get a powder blue bloom on the femur. But some weeks after the ecdysis it is gone and blakish again! =:-(

But not only the point of time before and after the molt has an influence on the colour, but also the camera settings like shown in this example (both photos have been taken short one after another, just with different camera settings of my digital camera): >>click here<<

Or see Scott's Xenethis immanis >>click here<< he posted in this thread >>click here<< – nice blue lustre for an X. immanis, hasn't it!?

So, I bet if you make another photo in about 1,5 or two month, without flash and you do a white balance with your digital camera before, it will look very different and less bluish! =;-)

But I have to admit, that I am really surprised how bluish it came out, even I think it's caused by the fresh molting, the lightning and the camera settings!


BTW, fresh molted subadult Poecilotheria ornata males photographed in true sunlight will have a greenish lustre: >>click here<<; can' t remember which size and gender, but it's a fresh molted P. ornata in true sunlight: >>click here<<.
Same for fresh molted P. rufilatas, in true sunlight => very greenish!

=> never trust a photo! =;-))

all the best,
Martin

 

[Martin H.]

Dear Todd,

Martin,

Back at it again, heh? How many hundreds of hours now have you spend on this subject?

not many hundreds but for sure it has been several hours – you are indeed a hard nut to crack! =;-)~
But since I am like a "non profit organisation" and don't do it for money, no problem so far! =;-)

Give it up.

not as long as it makes fun and as long as I think that I have the better arguments! =;-p

They were sold from Ferry & Dirk in Europe as Xenesthis sp. "blau".

this afternoon I had a telephone conversation with Ferry (for those who don't know Ferry: this is one of the two guys who found these two species, bred them the first time and introduced the spiderlings into the hobby; both are also interested in the taxonomy of the genus Xenesthis, have examined a lof of stuff and I have the impression that they have a quite good knowledge about this genus), whom I mailed the the links to John's photo >>click here<< and to your spiderlings (>>click here<<, >>click here<<) and he told me, that he has NEVER sold these spiderlings with the bright/white/light/orange/creme (or what every you want call it) legs as Xenesthis sp. "blau". These ones he has sold as Xenesthis sp. "weiß". ...don't you think he should know best what he has sold under which common name!?
If you don't believe me and you want to have this confirmed, I can give you his phone number or mail addy and you can ask Ferry himself! =;-)

BTW, do you remember this photo >>click here<<. That's one of the photos Ferry sent you, when you got in touch with him some years ago to negotiate a Xenesthis-deal with him. As he told me, he offered you all spiderlings (= exclusive) of the first eggsack of Xenesthis sp. "blau". But no deal has been brought off since Ferry didn't want to sent out spiders before he got the money from you (= a stranger for him at this time) as you suggested and you didn't want to sent money before you got the spiders from Ferry. Finally he sold them to someone else!
...I could imagine because of these photos Ferry sent you at this time of the blue species you came to the assumption that the Xenesthis sp. which have been sold to you later by b.t.b.e. are the same species as the Xenesthis sp. "blau". *hmmm...*

Sorry, nah I'm not sorry but I changed that common name to an English one "Amazonian Giant Powder Blue". You don't like it - tough! That doesn't mean that it's not the Xenesthis sp. "blau".

The common name I don't care, you can call it what ever you want. I just think the "amazonian" part is a bit "silly" in a common name, when the spider has nothing to do with the Amazonas – not the river Amazonas, nor the forest called "Amazons", nor "Amazonas State", nor... but I am not allowed to go into details where they have been found what would proof easily that "Amazonian" in the common name is "silly", except if you would call whole South America "Amazonas" this common name would make sence. =;-) Anyhow, that just my personal opinion about this common name, of course you are free to use it or any other, but you have to accept that others might comment on it!
Anyhow, what I criticise is that you have used the depiction of the phaenotype and a (btw, stolen) photo of a subadult specimen of a different species (= Xenesthis sp. "blau") to advertise the species which is sold by the breeders as Xenesthis sp. "weiß" and when your attention was brought to this mistake you IMO got very offended and obstinate! Anyhow, at the moment I think you are very convinced that you have sold the correct blue species (= Xenesthis sp. "blau") and that you haven't done it intentionally. Maybe there was a missunderstanding between you and your supplier or the supplier and the breeder. Or maybe some kind of wish-thinking that any "Xenesthis sp." is the blue one. A propos "wish-thinking", that's what someone else wrote to me some times ago who has as far as I know got his spiderlings from the same source as you:

---8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<---

"...when I first read about the misidentification, I contacted you privatly and contacted the person who sold them to me from Germany, after talking to both of you, I quickly changed the label on those animals [...] for the "white/brown" species and not the "blue"
[...]
there is nothing bad at being wrong, I am human and there are people out there that know a lot more then me... what happened is easy for me, when I saw Xenesthis sp., I automaticly assumed they were the blue one, because the only Xenesthis sp. I had seen was the pictures on your site. But they were never sold to me as the blue one, I just assumed that!... I think Todd have done the same thing but does not want to say it! ..."

---8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<----8<---

Man, get a life dude.

*singt*...Herzlich willkommen in meinem Lebenslauf...*/singt* =;-) (lyrics by Farin Urlaub singer of "die ärzte", song: "Rebell")



######### end of part one #########

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[Martin H.]

######### beginning of part two #########

You've been at this now for sometime. It's getting a little weird this obsession that you have.

Xenesthis sp. "blau" = "Amazonian Giant Powder Blue"

if you call these slings >>click here<<, >>click here<< "Amazonian Giant Powder Blue" then I still say NOPE, NOT the same as the one which has been sold by the breeders Xenesthis sp. "blau"!

That's it. That's all. You little discredit campaign isn't working.

Can one call it discredit, when I just try to explain – on my best knowledge – the differences between these two species?
Since it is common on this message board to ID species by colouration, here are some facts (given to me by Ferry) on the differences of these two species mainly based on their colouration:


Xenesthis sp. "blau":
It is a dainty Xenesthis species, shorter hairs, looks more "compact"/"stocky", more round 'carapace', the 'carapace' colour is brighter more pinkish and with thinner black radial stripes. Males have a blue tint on the legs, especially on the femurs. Young females too, but will loose it the older they get.
See this photo (with courtesy of Ferry Pribik): >>click here<<
And another adult male >>click here<< and >>click here<< (photo posted by Steffen Haller in this thread >>click here<<)
And here is a photo of an adult female of Xenesthis sp. "blau" (photo by Steffen Haller, specimen part of the breeding stock of Dirk W.): >>click here<< (pay attention on the short hairs, the round and pinky 'carapace')
A larger spiderling / juvenile of Xenesthis sp. "blau": >>click here<< (photo made by Steffen Haller)
And finally a photo collage made by Steffen Haller (specimen part of the breeding stock of Dirk W.): >>click here<<



Xenesthis sp. "weiß":
As spiderlings with bright/white/light/orange/creme (or what every you want call it) legs. The older they get the more they brown out. As adults they look almost identical to Xenesthis immanis or X. intermedius, but according to Ferry and Dirk they are found at different locations. The 'carapace' is not as round as the one of Xenesthis sp. "blau" and it's darker: more black parts and it's not pink but reddish. The differences in the 'carapace' colouration of both species you can see in this photo collage (both specimens are (sub)subadults and if I remember right both photos have been taken not long after an ecdysis): >>click here<<

Here are photos of the change of colouration in the different stages of Xenesthis sp. "weiß":
>>click here<< (small spiderling)
>>click here<< (spiderling)
>>click here<< (larger spiderling)
>>click here<< (larger spiderling / juvenile)
>>click here<< (larger spiderling / juvenile)
>>click here<< (larger spiderling / juvenile)
>>click here<< [(sub)subadult]
And finally an adult female (photo made by Steffen Haller; specimen part of the breeding stock of Dirk W.):
>>click here<<

And here is a photo collage made by Steffen Haller; specimen part of the breeding stock of Dirk W.): >>click here<<



And a photo collage of four different Xenesthis species made by Steffen Haller which he posted already in this thread >>click here<< (all specimens are part of the breeding stock of Dirk W.): >>click here<<

It shows what you are trying to do. John's pic shows a light blue-femured Xenesthis sp. Huh? Blue legs - yep, that's it. Now, give it a rest and go obsess over something else for another few hundreds hours.

I'll have a nice professional pic posted in the next month of a sub-adult female for you to eat on as well. Served up with a smile!

np, I will take it easy. The last word is not spoken yet. Seems that we have to wait about another year till the females are larger and the first males will mature, than the differences of these two species will be more obvious! ...and here in Germany we have the saying: "Wer zuletzt lacht lacht am besten!" =;-p

all the best,
Martin

 

[Martin H.]

Hi,

I think the controversy is that he is trying to say this is a separate species.

BINGO! And I say it again (and again and again ... =;-):
The ones with the bright/white/light/orange/creme (or what every you want call it) legs as spiderlings is a different species than the Xenesthis sp. "blau" >>click here<< of which Todd used one of my photos (BTW, without explicit permission*tze*, but that is a different topic) to advertise the bright-legged-slings-species on his X-species website >>click here<<
The latter one, is also known here in Germany (and CB slings have been introduced in the hobby by Ferry and Dirk) as Xenesthis sp. "blau"). This one looks as adult different than the X. sp. "weiß". Adult females of Xenesthis immanis, X. intermedia and X. sp. "weiß" look almost identical (see this photo collage of four different Xenesthis species made by Steffen Haller, all specimens are part of the breeding stock of Dirk W.: >>click here<<) and are difficult to tell apart from each other (best way is the location where they have been found), which might be the problem why "Xenesthis immanis" has the reputation to be difficult to breed. But Ferry told me, if you try to breed species from the same location/habitat, it is not very difficult. Ferry told me also, at the beginning when he tried to breed pet trade specimens of "Xenesthis immanis" he needed 6 years to find a couple which fits and bred succesfully. Now, he and Dirk only have specimens with known collecting datas and they breed these regularely!!


Everyone is (hopefully =;-) free to judge himself, whom and what informations he wants to believe. These are just my 'two' cents and arguments on this topic.

Now I am looking forward to see further photos of John's specimen in about 1,5 to two month (with adjusted white balance =;-) and of photos of both genders in about one year when the females are larger and the first males have probably matured – than I think the differences of these two species will be more obvious! ;P

all the best,
Martin

 

[xenesthis]

Pathetic Martin

You are lying through you teeth! Ferry & Dirk DID sell "Xenesthis sp. blau" at a show in Germany and to some people picking them up as well.

Your distortions of the truth are incredible. As for your claim that you are a non-profit and have no commercial interest, ah, but I do know who you do your dirty work for and why. I've been onto that for the last year. That is why you spend all this time trying to discredit me so badly. Now your whinning about your dumb photo and lying about that as well - AGAIN.

Even your blues are now "white". You even seem to accuse John of coloring up his photo as well.

IF and that is a BIG "if" these turn out to NOT be the Xenesthis sp. "blau", then it is Ferry & Dirk you sold them incorrectly out of Germany. Knowing somethings that you fail to admit to anybody in your pathetic postings, I don't believe that happened. I was shown pics of the adults. I bought from a trusted supplier who bought them from Ferry & Dirk and there was extensive confirmations that they were the "blau" species. You are trying to paint me out to be somebody I'm not, but in the process you are surely showing who you are and what you are about - pathetic.

Todd

 

[Deliverme314]

Honestly... I dont see what the big deal is. I believe Todd when he says that they are what they are or at least that they were sold to him as such.

Martin... you really seem to be going through a TON of trouble for something that you claim to have nothing invested in. Why dont you just give it a rest. The things we KNOW are these. They are Xenesthis... probobly of equal value and rarity as the one you claim that these are not... a beautiful specimen that is essentialy identical to the one syou claim these are not, just a mild coloration difference... EVERYONE that has ever bought one in the states has come from Todd more or less... tons have posted their love for them on the board and none have stated any regret or unhappiness with their purchase.

So there it is. A ton of hobbiest all happy with their purchase. You are beginning to look like a brat. I hate to say it because I like you and think your posts are very educational. But honestly you should just let this go.

 

[Critterfarm]

As for your claim that you are a non-profit and have no commercial interest, ah, but I do know who you do your dirty work for and why. I've been onto that for the last year. That is why you spend all this time trying to discredit me so badly.

Knowing somethings that you fail to admit to anybody in your pathetic postings, I don't believe that happened.

I refuse to take sides in this matter, as I respect both of you to much to think either of you would be "lying". But Mr. Gearhart, if I'm "reading between the lines" correctly in the above quotes, and you have information that would reflect on Martin Huber's reputation, you should share it for two reasons:

1. First and foremost, for Mr. Huber to have a chance to dispute or otherwise explain the information you're alluding to.
2. Secondly, many in the hobby value the information given by Mr. Huber greatly. If it is biased in one way or another we as hobbyists should know this when evaluating the information we recieve from Mr. Huber.

Personally, I think there must be some misunderstanding, as both of you have too much to lose by "lying" about this subject. I've no doubt both of you believe you have the truth to this matter. I've also no doubt whomever turns out to be incorrect in their information will quickly do what is needed to correct the entire situation.

 

[Martin H.]

Hi again,

You are lying through you teeth! Ferry & Dirk DID sell "Xenesthis sp. blau" at a show in Germany and to some people picking them up as well.

you are right, they have sold X. sp. "blau" as well as they have sold X. sp. "weiß" at shows respectively at one show (Kornwestheim) in Germany – where have I said that they never sold any X. sp. "blau"? If you wish I can post the prices for which they have sold both species, slings, juveniles and subadults! ...I think that would make some people drool! =;-)
But the topic is: that these are two different species in which the spiderlings look remarkable different!

As I offered you above:
If you don't believe me and you want to have this confirmed, I can give you his phone number or mail addy and you can ask Ferry himself! =;-)
=> FIRST HAND source/informations!!

Even your blues are now "white".

my blues are white? Maybe you have read over the photos which I have posted above:
A spiderling of Xenesthis sp. "weiß": >>click here<< and an adult female (photo of the adult specimen made by Steffen Haller; specimen part of the breeding stock of Dirk W.):
>>click here<<

A larger spiderling / juvenile of Xenesthis sp. "blau": >>click here<< adult female of Xenesthis sp. "blau" (photos by Steffen Haller, specimen part of the breeding stock of Dirk W.): >>click here<<

You even seem to accuse John of coloring up his photo as well.

IF and that is a BIG "if" these turn out to NOT be the Xenesthis sp. "blau", then it is Ferry & Dirk you sold them incorrectly out of Germany.

btw, Ferry sold them IN Germany (to a big dealer), not out of Germany!

Honestly... I dont see what the big deal is. I believe Todd when he says that they are what they are or at least that they were sold to him as such.

They are "Amazonian Giant Powder Blue" or what every you want to call the species with the white legged slings in the US market, but they are NOT the same species which has been sold by the breeders as Xenesthis sp. "blau". And at the beginning Todd used one photo of Xenesthis sp. "blau" (btw, one of these photos: >>click here<< – so I know which species the photo he used showed) to advertise these slings (>>click here<<, >>click here<<) from the white-legged-slings-species (= the one I call X. sp. "weiß").

They are Xenesthis... probobly of equal value and rarity as the one you claim that these are not

dito, they are both still very rare and the X. sp. "weiß" is probably even more rare than the X. sp. "blau", since – to my humble knowledge – there have been more eggsacks of the X. sp. "blau" so far than of X. sp. "weiß".


But like I suggested about, I think at the moment it would be better to stop here, wait about another year till the females are larger and the first males will mature, than the differences of these two species will be more obvious and we can pick it up again to clear this dispute!

all the best,
Martin


PS.: @John

... has far as I can see (unfortunately the 'carapace' is a bit disguised by the legs – explanation see below) that is the species which is called here in Germany Xenesthis sp. "weiß" (weiß = white) and which has been sold unter this name by Ferry and Dirk.

John, could you please post a full carapace shot (or send it to me privately) I want to compare the markings and the colouration with these photos: >>click here<<
...ya know, for the 1%-exit! =;-)

 

[Martin H.]

one more:

but I do know who you do your dirty work for and why.

have I missed something? I would be interested in what you want to say/claim with this statement, too!

all the best,
Martin

 

[Lopez]

You even seem to accuse John of coloring up his photo as well.

Just to pick up on this, I don't think it's fair to say that Martin has "accused" John of anything - he just said that post moult spiders photographed under indoor lighting and flash conditions will show up with a blue or green sheen for the first few days/weeks after moulting. I'd have to agree with him because I noticed the same when photographing a Haplopelma sp."Vietnam" at about 3am....it's jet black in the flesh but in my pictures it almost has a greeny turquoise iridescence.

 

[abstract]

Just based on the amount of time that I spent reading this thread I think I should be able to reply:

1> Martin obviously has a genuine concern for correct taxonomy of the X. spp., and as previously stated - has nothing apparent to gain by his remarks; which incidentally are well-formed, and non-combative.
2> I've never dealt with Todd, and have no opinions of his character other than what I've read on this thread. Honestly though, when compared to Martin's responses - they seem paranoid, and laced with accusation without any real supporting evidence. Not that my opinion counts, but I'm not impressed.

If this was a high-school debate, there would be one clear winner. As pointed out by M. H. though, we'll have to wait to know for sure.

EDIT - As a dealer, I think the burden of proof clearly rests upon Todd to ensure everyone that the X. sp. he has are indeed what he claims. In the era of email, email quotes from the dealer the X. sp. "blue" were purchased from, as well as an email quote from Ferry himself would be acceptable. It's that easy.