Vitamin D in Scorpions?

BadBikaDamo

Arachnoknight
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Most hard shelled creatures require sunshine to produce Vit. D to help harden and maintain their shell. Even human skin produces Vit. D when in the sun. If a scorpion is nocturnal, does it not require Vit D?
 

tabor

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As far as i know, no spider/scorpion has special lighting requirements. Snakes and lizards on the other hand... :evil:
 

BadBikaDamo

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Most people here would strongly recomend against the use of UV lights for scorps, myself amoungst them, I was just wondering how scorpions get Vit D as it helps the body break down calcium and is good for strenthening bones / shells etc. I'm sure Fusion will come up with some interesting facts.

Cheers Tabor

Damo
 

Jaffster

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Vitamin D is given from sunlight, I don't think false light provides vitamin D does it?

I mean, even in the wild nocturnal creatures spend their lives burrowed/hiding in times of sunlight so I'm sure Vitamin D isn't required in their diets.
 

skinheaddave

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I'm not a biochemist, nor do I play one on TV. Thus, I fear my answer will be inadequate but may get the ball rolling. There are a few points:

- not all animals that have a need for vitamin D synthesize it from sunlight. Some nocturnal animals get so little sunlight that they rely on dietary sources to aquire their vitamin D. In fact, when you think about it there are relatively few animals that require UV bulbs in captivity.

- the roll of vitamin D, for the most part, is to go hand-in-hand with calcium. In reptiles, for example, it is needed to promote the absorption of calcium through the intestine walls. If I remember correctly, it also helps with the sequestering of calcium from the bloodstream into tissues and in the formation of the skeleton. So you can have a lot of calcium, but without adequate vitaimin D (dietary or synthesized) you aren't going to have a strong skeleton.

- so what of scorpions? First off, their digestive system is quite different from that of a reptile or mammal. More importantly, their exoskeleton isn't primarily composed of calcium, phosphorous, collagen etc. (this is where it becomes clear that I am not a biochemist) but is instead primarily composed chitin, which is large sheets of sugar ... yes, sugar (beta-glucose to be precise, thank you wikipedia). So while they definitely do use calcium, it is not at the forefront of mechanical structure. So basically, while they certainly use calcium (I'm guessing it still plays a large role in neurotransmission), I don't know of any papers that cover the use of vitamin D and so can't say how much they need or what they use it for.

Cheers,
Dave
 

BadBikaDamo

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Vit D can be generated from U.V. lighting, it is essential for lizards and reptiles (hi all you repto fans) and for these pets, it's a must. True there are plenty of nocturnal animals, but it was the scorps hard shell I was wondering about? I'm not looking to get suppliments or anything, my scorps are all fine, I'm just curious. Is a scorps shell harder if it comes out more? Are dessert scorps shell harder than forest scorps. Is this why there feaces are powdery and white (undigested calcium)? Like I say, it's not important, I'm just curious.

Have you found that Emporer yet Jaffster??

Good luck with the hunt.

Damo
 

kahoy

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Vit D can be generated from U.V. lighting, it is essential for lizards and reptiles (hi all you repto fans) and for these pets, it's a must.

True there are plenty of nocturnal animals, but it was the scorps hard shell I was wondering about?
-there are cave scorps as well, laying deep down the earth, (forgot what it was but it has no eyes and sounds like tartarus) yet they lived w/ a fully functioning exo.

I'm not looking to get suppliments or anything, my scorps are all fine, I'm just curious. Is a scorps shell harder if it comes out more?
-i dont know either, but what i know is that their exo is soft after molt and becames hard afterwards, by that time they must be hiding well on their burrows out of sunshine.

Are dessert scorps shell harder than forest scorps.
-nope, the exoskeleton (shells sounds better for mollusks, exo are for arthropods) thickness is on proportion to the size, like pandinus exo is thicker compared to a... androctunus or leirus.

Is this why there feaces are powdery and white (undigested calcium)? Like I say, it's not important, I'm just curious.
-im not sure, but it seems that the white poo are the wastes from the exo that the scorps get from their preys, and not all white are calcium. :)


:)
 

skinheaddave

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Is a scorps shell harder if it comes out more?
I would say not. Compare the exoskeleton of a Centruroides which is exposed to some sunlight to an obligate burrower such as Anuroctonus and you will find the reverse of what you have suggested.

Are dessert scorps shell harder than forest scorps.
The truly squishy scorpions seem to fall more along the lines of species that wedge themselves into tight cracks than by sun exposure. Hadogenes would be an example of a squishy arid scorpion whereas Opisthacanthus would be an example of a squishy scorpion found in wetter climes.

Is this why there feaces are powdery and white
Those would be primarily urates. Animals that aren't so hung up over moisture loss (us) tend to put out urine. Those that retain a lot of moisture tend to put out a much dryer compound of one type or another, usually appearing chalky and white. If you start putting out solid calcium then you're in trouble.

Cheers,
Dave
 

Michiel

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Vit D can be generated from U.V. lighting, it is essential for lizards and reptiles (hi all you repto fans) and for these pets, it's a must.

That because if reptiles don't get there D Vits, they can develop certain bone diseases. Scorpions do not have bones, so they don't need it.
The stuff that hardens there exocuticle is called chitine, just as in beetle armour...After every molting their cuticle hardens again. If scorpions would need it, they would walk around in the sun all day. But you kind of answered your own question already I guess :D
 

BadBikaDamo

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Cheers guys, fascinating stuff, amazing answers,but......er......just one thing.....where do they get thier beta-glucose from??? Isn't that a product of photosynthesis, which again involves sunlight.

I really should do more research before asking these questions.

I'm of to do some research.....
 
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